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Snorkel For Big Blue?

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Gary Lewis

Re: Snorkel For Big Blue?

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Thanks, Keith. So, does the application list need to updated? And, do they do a reasonable job of keeping water from splashes out of the dizzy?

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

Gary Lewis

Re: Snorkel For Big Blue?

Administrator

As an update to this thread, I'm trying to adapt the Windsor EFI air intake to Big Blue as it'll raise the bottom of the inlet from 36" to 48" off the ground. You can see that in Big Blue's Transformation thread starting here.

But I have found this thread on FSB where a guy installed an ARB SS395HF snorkel for a Land Rover on his Bullnose.

I don't like it all that well since it isn't a perfect fit as the horizontal part runs at an angle to the hood/fender. And it comes in well above the air filter box, which required a whole lot of custom fabrication under the hood. Maybe it would have fit better if he'd put it below the break in the fender?

But I put it here for reference and will continue my quest to modify the Windsor intake to fit.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

BigBrother-84

Re: Snorkel For Big Blue?

I am curious to understand why these snorkels always point their open mouth towards the front of the vehicle. Not the side or the rear.

I mean, when heavy rain, won't the water go to the intake directly, even on a road and not crossing a river?

Or maybe if pointing toward the rear, there would be a "succion" effect that would reduce the air to the intake?

Jeff / 1984 F350 Crew Cab 4x4/5.8L w351 4V/ T18/ D50 4.10 front/ 8' bed.
Restored 2019-2022.
Nicknamed «Big Brother 1984», due to its soooo-looong shape & nod to George Orwell's 1984 famous novel.

Gary Lewis

Re: Snorkel For Big Blue?

Administrator

It is a reasonable question. The forward-facing opening would certainly get water in it, but so will the forward-facing one from the factory. But the inlet for the one for the 300, 460, and IDI is actually lower than the air filter box, which is lower than the throttle body, so maybe water doesn't get sucked in during a rain?

However, the openings for the ones at the top of the cab are obviously higher than not only the air filter box but also the throttle body. So maybe the water is coming in so slowly it isn't a problem? Maybe it is like the water injection systems of old that cooled the charge and prevented detonation?

Plus the ARB one listed above says "Top pivots and is designed to remove the maximum volume of water from incoming air stream."

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Ford F834

Re: Snorkel For Big Blue?

Administrator

Hi Gary,

I know I am very late to the party… probably too late to be of much help… but I can comment on the air intake direction.

Most of the IDI’s had the intake in the core support, but later ones (Aeronose?) had it right at the hood seam at the top of the core support. This was supposedly done to take advantage of the slightly positive pressure where the air flow accelerating over the corner of the hood while driving would produce a mild forced induction effect. Some owners of older IDI’s have updated to the newer duct and claimed to notice an improvement. The caveat being that it is wise to trim the hood insulation as it is notorious for sagging and blocking the broad skinny inlet.

Another IDI upgrade was a cowl induction aftermarket kit sold by Hypermax. This made use of another high pressure point where the air flow hits the windshield and creates positive pressure in the cowl that is used for the cab vents. The Hypermax requires cutting the cowl and ducting air to the air filter. The Hypermax kit offers convenience, but many owners have fabricated their own.

This positive pressure induction is likely more important on a naturally aspirated diesel, but is worth at least thinking about for Big Blue. I think I would want the inlet facing forward if it were me.

Just out of curiosity, are you actually wanting to be able to drive into more than 36” of standard water? That seems way deeper than anything I would voluntarily drive into 😬. Anything above the differentials and axle hubs makes for a lot of lube change and grease work when you get home. I once entered a puddle that was almost to the lower edge of the front bumper con the passenger side, and it cost me a starter motor. Ooooops.

Here is a link to the Hypermax cowl induction:
https://www.gohypermax.com/ProductDisplay.aspx?ID=498d3ee6-44a5-427d-9e97-bf310348184d

SHORT BED 4-DOOR DIESEL: 1986 F350 4x4 under construction-- 7.3 IDIT ZF5+GVOD

STRAIGHT SIX 4X4: 1981 F150 2wd to 4x4-- 300 I6 close ratio diesel T19, hydroboost brakes, Saginaw steering

BIG F: 1995 F-Superduty under construction— converting to 6.9L IDI diesel ZF5+DNE2

Gary Lewis

Re: Snorkel For Big Blue?

Administrator

Jonathan - I don't understand what you mean by "the hood seam at the top of the core support". Where is that in comparison to where the Windsor inlet is that I'm using?

As for the cowl induction, I don't think I can snake a hose that size back to the firewall, but I'll look tomorrow. Thanks.

But I'm not planning on going deeper than about 33 - 35". I've watched the videos and that's the deepest they get. But the bottom of the current inlet is at 36", so a bow wave would cause problems. Hence the work to move it to the top of the radiator support, which is at 48".

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Ford F834

Re: Snorkel For Big Blue?

Administrator

Gary I believe the Windsor intake and the late IDI intake are functionally the same. Mostly I wanted to comment on the direction of the inlet and to consider the air pressure in the duct if you hadn’t thought of it. Here are a couple of images of the late IDI factory set up:

Gary Lewis

Re: Snorkel For Big Blue?

Administrator

Ok, so it sits over the 2nd battery. Now I understand. Thanks.

And I hadn't thought of the air pressure. But the through-the-support inlet had pressure as well. So does the later one have more?

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Ford F834

Re: Snorkel For Big Blue?

Administrator

Armchair forum wisdom says yes, something about the velocity of the air where it changes direction to flow over the edge of the hood and at the base of the windshield produces more pressure than the flat opening in the core support. It sounds plausible, but I don’t know that it has been measured and I am skeptical about whether it makes a tangible difference. Some owners claim to have noticed improvement with an NA diesel and cowl induction. I would think that an EFI gas engine would be less responsive to the Hypermax upgrade but I could be wrong.

Gary Lewis

Re: Snorkel For Big Blue?

Administrator

Jonathan - I think I like the Windsor inlet better than the later diesel on as it looks like it would be a pain to get routed down to the air filter box.

But the shot below of the Hypermax cowl induction inlet on the left and Big Blue's firewall on the right has potential. I've circled where the Hypermax goes on the firewall and put an arrow where it needs to connect to the air filter box.

I think it could be made to do that, but it would be busy as the pic of BB has the MAF sensor and inlet hose(s) to the throttle body removed. So the air inlet hose would have to go below that.

I think for now I'm going to continue on with the Windsor inlet and see if I can get it going. I don't really like the idea of cutting holes in Big Blue, either for an external snorkel or into the cowl.

But thanks for the ideas!

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

1986F150Six

Re: Snorkel For Big Blue?

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Great minds working together! Somewhere, I read that in a multitude of counsellors there is safety.

85lebaront2

Re: Snorkel For Big Blue?

Administrator

In reply to this post by Gary Lewis

Gary, that was my thought for several reasons. (a) high pressure area (b) high enough that you would need hip waders to drive (c) should also reduce dust ingestion on dry dirt roads.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

"Getting old is inevitable, growing up is optional" Darth Vader 1986 F350 460 converted to MAF/SEFI, E4OD 12X3 1/2 rear brakes, traction loc 3:55 gear, 160 amp 3G alternator Wife's 2011 Flex Limited Daily Driver 2009 Flex Limited with factory tow package Project car 1986 Chrysler LeBaron convertible 2.2L Turbo II, modified A413

Gary Lewis

Re: Snorkel For Big Blue?

Administrator

In reply to this post by 1986F150Six

David - I think that might be Proverbs, and specifically 11:14.

Bill - The cowl induction idea is possible, but I'm thinking that this approach is going to work:

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Ford F834

Re: Snorkel For Big Blue?

Administrator

In reply to this post by Gary Lewis

Gary I like your plan and I share your opinion about cutting into the firewall (or anywhere else) without a compelling reason and lack of other options.

I don’t know if the 460 starter is vulnerable like the 6.9, but I would consider carrying a spare on trips where deep water is a possibility.

Gary Lewis

Re: Snorkel For Big Blue?

Administrator

Hadn't thought about a spare starter, but that's not a bad idea. Especially since the one on there's a Powermaster. (What could go wrong, right?

)

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

85lebaront2

Re: Snorkel For Big Blue?

Administrator

This is why I am using a stock Ford PMGR starter on Darth.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

Gary Lewis

Re: Snorkel For Big Blue?

Administrator

This one's a PMGR, and any spare I buy will be a PMGR. No sense going backwards.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

85lebaront2

Re: Snorkel For Big Blue?

Administrator

The operative words were "stock Ford". Readily available locally.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

Gary Lewis

Re: Snorkel For Big Blue?

Administrator

Yep, I fully understood. But since I can put a stock PMGR in place of this one with no changes I'll run it until it dies.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Ford F834

Re: Snorkel For Big Blue?

Administrator

When you are out on a trail nothing is readily available or local unless you brought it with you! I’ve had enough failures of simple parts that I carry a paranoid amount of spares with me when I go way out from civilization ha ha…. I don’t typically carry a spare starter, but I have had the habit of parking nose down hill just in case (for roll starting).

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