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HBF comes out of retirement

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HBF84

Re: HBF comes out of retirement

Ok, so I finally drove Happy Blue Ford and when it warmed up, the engine was racing at a very high idle when my foot wasn’t on the accelerator. I wrote Mike’s Carburetors and they figured the very high idle was due to the electronic feedback gizmo keeping the throttle plate open. I just removed the electronic feedback gizmo linkage and then dialed up the fuel idle mixture and then curb idle speed. And then, the test ride went smoothly!

Ok, so any ideas if I should try to reset the metering rod with the electronic feedback gizmo already attached or just leave the EFG off?!? Have folks had this kinda trouble before?!?

1984 F-150 2wd short bed with 4.9L, 4 speed overdrive manual transmission, and 3.08 rear end (18) switched to the 3.55 limited slip (H9).

Gary Lewis

Re: HBF comes out of retirement

Administrator

I've not played with a feedback carb so I don't know how to answer your question. But I'd bet Bill has so I'll tag him.

However, we have the factory shop manual section on that carb at Documentation/Fuel & Air Systems/Carburetors, Chokes, & EFI/Motorcraft 2150 and then the Instructions tab. But I've scanned that and don't see anything that jumps out at me except for the discussion on Page 4 re Idle Systems where it says:

For feedback/altitude carburetors, metered air thru duty cycle solenoid/altitude compensator, enters the idle circuit at the junction of the booster support and the main body. This air initially starts from the auxiliary air intake on the air horn, metered through the duty cycle solenoid/altitude compensator valves as the case may be, tracked by horizontal and vertical channels in the main body and finally through a mating channel at the bottom of the booster support.

So the duty cycle solenoid can certainly add air and that would speed up the idle. However, I don't know what to do about that.

Bill?

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

ArdWrknTrk

Re: HBF comes out of retirement

Administrator

The instructions tab just gives me a sad, dog eared page icon, Gary.
Are you hosting this at home?

I was under the impression that the feedback carburetors solenoid had a duty cycle and it operated somewhat analogous to PWM, but I'm no expert on EEC-IV.

I wonder if it is stuck or it's just getting bad/no signal?

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

Gary Lewis

Re: HBF comes out of retirement

Administrator

Sorry Jim, but it is hosted on the cloud - my OneDrive. And it loads nicely on my iphone as I tried it while out with Steve bringing his '97 E-Series van home.

But I agree with you that the impression I had was that the feedback carbs had a solenoid that was pulsed to provide the tuning. But I don't know how it works really and was hoping Bill could tell us. But he just got another year older today so I'm guessing that he's celebrating.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

81-F150-Explorer

Re: HBF comes out of retirement

In reply to this post by ArdWrknTrk

Those feedback solenoids should have an audible ticking noise as they operate. If it is not ticking, then it has problems.

The O2 sensor is also crucial and can effect the system, add more air via the feedback solenoid if they are plugged or contaminated etc...

Truck: 1981 F-150 Explorer / Engine: 300-6 California MCU Feedback System / Trans: T-18 - 4 speed / 2.75 Ford Rear Axle Open Diff.

81-F150-Explorer

Re: HBF comes out of retirement

In reply to this post by Gary Lewis

The Feedback solenoid is pulsed, and how fast the pulses regulates how "open" or "closed" the solenoid is.

They can stick open, closed or somewhere in-between when they fail as well.

Truck: 1981 F-150 Explorer / Engine: 300-6 California MCU Feedback System / Trans: T-18 - 4 speed / 2.75 Ford Rear Axle Open Diff.

85lebaront2

Re: HBF comes out of retirement

Administrator

This post was updated on .

In reply to this post by Gary Lewis

The only picture I could find quickly is a bottom view, but it does have the two control items on it along with the TPS (throttle position sensor).

I do not have the 1984 manuals, so had to use my 1986 one for a reference.

The two control items are ISC (idle speed controller) and the mixture solenoid. On the left side is the TPS.
The ISC is a servo motor and also contains a closed throttle switch. The switch tells the computer when the throttle is closed at which time the idle speed control is activated. This can be seen and heard, seen in the fact that the plunger will move in or out to reach the desired idle rpm, heard as a whirring noise from the motor and gears inside. The mixture control is a duty cycle solenoid and as has been mentioned, will make a ticking noise and if you put a finger on it you can feel the vibration.

The wiring diagrams for this system are on pages 56 and 57 of the 1986 EVTM.

I just went back and read your description of the carburetor internal condition. The pump diaphragm in these is a dual function part, the top side is the accelerator pump, bottom side is the power enrichment control for the metering rod. A hole in it and raw gas is being drawn into your intake manifold constantly.

One of the issues with this system, is the lack of a malfunction indicator light. The test connector can be used, but requires a proper scan tool, that parts stores do not have. Running pig rich may have loaded up your O2 sensor to where it isn't reading the mixture. This puts the sytsem into "limp" mode.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

"Getting old is inevitable, growing up is optional" Darth Vader 1986 F350 460 converted to MAF/SEFI, E4OD 12X3 1/2 rear brakes, traction loc 3:55 gear, 160 amp 3G alternator Wife's 2011 Flex Limited Daily Driver 2009 Flex Limited with factory tow package Project car 1986 Chrysler LeBaron convertible 2.2L Turbo II, modified A413

81-F150-Explorer

Re: HBF comes out of retirement

Mixture Solenoid = Feedback Solenoid.

85lebaront2 wrote

.... Running pig rich may have loaded up your O2 sensor to where it isn't reading the mixture. This puts the system into "limp" mode.

Or worse, fool the system into thinking the truck is running lean, therefore pouring the fuel into it more. Or vise/versa think it's running rich leaning out the system too much.

Reading the codes would be helpful.

Truck: 1981 F-150 Explorer / Engine: 300-6 California MCU Feedback System / Trans: T-18 - 4 speed / 2.75 Ford Rear Axle Open Diff.

HBF84

Re: HBF comes out of retirement

Thank you!!!

Ok, so as I was rebuilding the carburetor and adjusting the metering rod, the TPS was not attached. The throttle plate closed nicely with the throttle barrel. When I went to attach the TPS, I could not attach it without making an 1/8th inch gap in the throttle plate and throttle body.

When I drove it, it ran at a high idle. I removed the TPS, and it’s running fine.

Should the TPS have been attached when I adjusted the metering rod?!?

1984 F-150 2wd short bed with 4.9L, 4 speed overdrive manual transmission, and 3.08 rear end (18) switched to the 3.55 limited slip (H9).

85lebaront2

Re: HBF comes out of retirement

Administrator

If the TPS is holding the throttle open, then something is wrong, TPS, the drive tang on the shaft for it, assembled wrong, or even bent.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

HBF84

Re: HBF comes out of retirement

Ok. I’ll pull it off and try to figure out what I did wrong with the TPS! Thank you!

1984 F-150 2wd short bed with 4.9L, 4 speed overdrive manual transmission, and 3.08 rear end (18) switched to the 3.55 limited slip (H9).

HBF84

Re: HBF comes out of retirement

Aloha and sorry to be a stranger on this site! I haven’t sorted out my TPS issue and the wife says I have to get the steering sloppiness fixed. And, I have to get a new radiator. And, a bunch other things… however, I kinda wanna do something else first…

I’m curious if anyone has some dimensions on the stake pockets readily available… the location of a table saw, bandsaw, and router is a bit of a drive and I’d rather drive a different vehicle to the location versus HBF. But, I do recognize that having the pockets readily available to analyze as I cut wood would be ideal.

And, it might come down to a skill saw, hand saw, and a sharp eye (and a little luck.)

But, in general, anyone have any good dimensions?!?

1984 F-150 2wd short bed with 4.9L, 4 speed overdrive manual transmission, and 3.08 rear end (18) switched to the 3.55 limited slip (H9).

ArdWrknTrk

Re: HBF comes out of retirement

Administrator

You may find what you need on page 6 of the body builders specifications.
But this is not a short bed. 🤷

https://www.garysgaragemahal.com/1985-body-builders.html

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

ArdWrknTrk

Re: HBF comes out of retirement

Administrator

I do see to front stake pocket (L3) stake pocket C-C (L5) for the 6 3/4' bed on the top right of the page.

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

HBF84

Re: HBF comes out of retirement

Thank you!!!! I think the front one and the rear one are a little different. Probably best to drive HBF to the woodshop so I can make them fit as best as possible when I’m cutting.

1984 F-150 2wd short bed with 4.9L, 4 speed overdrive manual transmission, and 3.08 rear end (18) switched to the 3.55 limited slip (H9).

ArdWrknTrk

Re: HBF comes out of retirement

Administrator

You think the pockets aren't 1.42 x 2.24"?

The 6 3/4' dimensions (L5 & L3) should be correct at 7.52" front of bed to C and 73.04 C-C

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

HBF84

Re: HBF comes out of retirement

Well, it seems like the front pockets are a different size than the rear pockets. But, I figured it out! The actual cut rectangles in the rail seem to be all about the same. But, the rectangles have received a bunch of wear and tear. And, then the bed rails have shifted in their position relative to the pocket! Each wooden stake is gonna have to be “custom”!

1984 F-150 2wd short bed with 4.9L, 4 speed overdrive manual transmission, and 3.08 rear end (18) switched to the 3.55 limited slip (H9).

HBF84

Re: HBF comes out of retirement

Well, trying to get HBF tuned up for the wife and she’s comfortable driving it. I learned about an adjustment on the steering box and was able to rotate the screw clockwise a 1/4 turn then another 1/4 turn. Seems to be a little better. A bit more responsive than previously where I able to turn the steering wheel about half a turn before it would start turning. Now, I can move the steering wheel about a quarter turn before it starts turning. Waiting on the wife for a test drive!

But, a some questions for the gang here…Does the adjustment screw alter the hydraulic pressures? Might I just be creating a problem with the pump and the seals by doing that?

1984 F-150 2wd short bed with 4.9L, 4 speed overdrive manual transmission, and 3.08 rear end (18) switched to the 3.55 limited slip (H9).

Gary Lewis

Re: HBF comes out of retirement

Administrator

I hope you marked where the screw was initially because, in my experience, you'll want to put it back.

When I've tightened that screw up at all, and I mean "at all", it has taken both the slack and the feel out. And you have to pay attention at all times because the truck won't come back to center on its own.

And that's with only a teeny bit of tightening. But a full 1/2 turn may cause a bind. From what I've read you can actually break the box if you go too tight.

Be careful!

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

HBF84

Re: HBF comes out of retirement

Thanks Gary! I’ll bring it back half a turn. I didn’t mark it but I was deliberate with the quarter turns relative to the wrench on the locking nut.

1984 F-150 2wd short bed with 4.9L, 4 speed overdrive manual transmission, and 3.08 rear end (18) switched to the 3.55 limited slip (H9).

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