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Cruise Control Basics (lesson request)

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Gary Lewis

Re: Cruise Control Basics (lesson request)

Administrator

That appears to be completely backwards from what I expected. But maybe I'm missing something. I'd go ahead and install it the way the instructions say and find out how/if it works.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

BigBrother-84

Re: Cruise Control Basics (lesson request)

In reply to this post by Gary Lewis

Gary, I'll test again this morning the Clutch Switch, to confirm its behavior. We'll see.

But about the action of the Clutch Switch (normally opened or not, I'll test again), I do not understand the «or» in your sentence and in the Dealer Installed Speed Control instructions:

This implies that, whichever of the brake or clutch pedal is depressed, a 12V signal goes to the SC Module.
However, the Clutch Switch is linked to the cold side of the Brake Switch... How can it send a 12V signal while the Brake Switch is cutting the circuit?

Jeff / 1984 F350 Crew Cab 4x4/5.8L w351 4V/ T18/ D50 4.10 front/ 8' bed.
Restored 2019-2022.
Nicknamed «Big Brother 1984», due to its soooo-looong shape & nod to George Orwell's 1984 famous novel.

Gary Lewis

Re: Cruise Control Basics (lesson request)

Administrator

Let's say it a different way. If I were doing it I'd put a pull-up resistor of maybe 2000 ohms on the green wire that is going to the cruise control master harness. And assuming the clutch switch is closed when the clutch is engaged, meaning the pedal is up, the voltage going to the cruise control would normally be 0 volts because it would be held down by the brake light, which is a low-ohm resistor.

But, in these conditions the voltage would go to battery voltage:

Clutch Disengaged/Brake Off: When the clutch is disengaged the cruise control will "see" battery voltage on the green wire because the clutch switch opens and the brake light bulb is no longer grounding it. So the 2K ohm pull-up resistor will take the input "high".

Clutch Engaged/Brake Engaged: When the brake switch closes the voltage the cruise control will see battery voltage because the brake switch puts battery voltage to the bulb and since the clutch switch is closed that voltage will go right on to the module.

Clutch Disengaged/Brake Engaged: Even in this condition the module will see 12V because with the clutch switch open the pull-up resistor takes the input high.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

BigBrother-84

Re: Cruise Control Basics (lesson request)

In reply to this post by Gary Lewis

Gary Lewis wrote

That appears to be completely backwards from what I expected.

Gary, about the Clutch Switch «normally opened» or «normally closed», mystery solved.

The NOS E4ZZ-9A819-A - Manual Transmission Clutch Switch I bought (sealed in original Ford package) can be wired in ether of these two behaviors!

This is far to be idiot proof! I wrongly presumed that the two metal blades on the same side were simply a "split"of the same terminal. In fact, one is normally opened and the other normally closed.
https://youtube.com/shorts/ZaUskBverC8?feature=share

But Gary, this doesn't solve my "or" questioning, still not clear for me.

Jeff / 1984 F350 Crew Cab 4x4/5.8L w351 4V/ T18/ D50 4.10 front/ 8' bed.
Restored 2019-2022.
Nicknamed «Big Brother 1984», due to its soooo-looong shape & nod to George Orwell's 1984 famous novel.

Gary Lewis

Re: Cruise Control Basics (lesson request)

Administrator

I'll address the "or" this afternoon, after church. But please read my latest post again where I thought I addressed "or".

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

BigBrother-84

Re: Cruise Control Basics (lesson request)

This post was updated on .

In reply to this post by BigBrother-84

BigBrother-84 wrote

This is far to be idiot proof

Well, I have to apologize...

Guys at Ford did it idiot proof.
The connector is wired to one of the two twin blades, the other one is left blank:

Clutch Pedal released (up):

Circuit normally closed:

Clutch Pedal depressed (to the floor):

Circuit opened:

Gary, about the "or" question, I read you but still don't understand how depressing only the clutch pedal (without touching the brake pedal) could send a 12V signal to the SC Module.

Jeff / 1984 F350 Crew Cab 4x4/5.8L w351 4V/ T18/ D50 4.10 front/ 8' bed.
Restored 2019-2022.
Nicknamed «Big Brother 1984», due to its soooo-looong shape & nod to George Orwell's 1984 famous novel.

BigBrother-84

Re: Cruise Control Basics (lesson request)

In reply to this post by Gary Lewis

Ok, I draw a simple circuit:

• With the Clutch Switch closed (normal position, pedal up), the SC Module "sees" the ground bulb light.

• If clutch pedal is depressed, the Clutch Switch opens and the SC Module sees that it doesn't see the ground bulb anymore, and so understand that clutch pedal is being depressed.

I was wrong assuming that the green wire was a simple "ground" one. Somehow, the SC Module is reading at the green wire, this wire isn't a + or - one. It is a "listening" one. Am I understanding correctly?

If so, a non functional SC could warn the driver that brake light bulbs are burned up...

Jeff / 1984 F350 Crew Cab 4x4/5.8L w351 4V/ T18/ D50 4.10 front/ 8' bed.
Restored 2019-2022.
Nicknamed «Big Brother 1984», due to its soooo-looong shape & nod to George Orwell's 1984 famous novel.

Gary Lewis

Re: Cruise Control Basics (lesson request)

Administrator

I think you have it worked out. But let me say it differently.

First, I think the module has a pull-up resistor in it, as I've added to your drawing. And the module is looking to see if the input is at ground or battery voltage.

So if the clutch switch is closed and the brake is off it'll be at ground - if there is a good brake light bulb in the circuit. (You are right, if the speed control doesn't work you should check the brake light bulbs.) And ground lets the speed control work.

But if the clutch switch is closed and the brake switch is closed it'll be at battery voltage. Or if the clutch switch is open, regardless of the brake switch position, it'll be at battery voltage. And if the input is at battery voltage the speed control will not work.

Does that answer the question?

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

BigBrother-84

Re: Cruise Control Basics (lesson request)

This post was updated on .

Gary Lewis wrote

Does that answer the question?

Oh yeah, thanks so much!

I hate to blindly follow instructions without understanding what I'm doing.
I would say that all the SC system was becoming clear for me, except this famous Clutch Switch.
So, you can imagine my surprise when I tested this switch and discovered it was acting reversely than expected! I was completely lost...
I should have followed the instructions a little bit farther, plugged the connector and then tested it from the wires end. I apologize for the fling-flang I caused!

Jeff / 1984 F350 Crew Cab 4x4/5.8L w351 4V/ T18/ D50 4.10 front/ 8' bed.
Restored 2019-2022.
Nicknamed «Big Brother 1984», due to its soooo-looong shape & nod to George Orwell's 1984 famous novel.

Gary Lewis

Re: Cruise Control Basics (lesson request)

Administrator

No problem at all! I was happy to work through the circuits to see how they might work. Kind of like solving a puzzle.

And I do understand wanting to have your head around how something works before installing it. I do the same.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

BigBrother-84

Re: Cruise Control Basics (lesson request)

Finally! Big Brother is Speed Control equipped!
And it works!

I installed a NOS Dealer Installed Kit. Very busy at work presently, so found little time here and there, and completed the setup today.

Inside:

• Brake pedal vacuum switch:

• Clutch pedal switch (I added some electrical tape around the retaining tie-wrap, to be sure it won't slide):

• Controls arm:

• Control Module attached to the main dash harness. I am wondering where the guys with A/C equipped trucks install it

• Speed Sensor:

Engine compartment:

• General view:

• Servo:

• Cable attachement. Curiously, none of the instructions suggested setup fitted my engine. But I found a way to install the bracket so the cable is well aligned with its attachment:

Jeff / 1984 F350 Crew Cab 4x4/5.8L w351 4V/ T18/ D50 4.10 front/ 8' bed.
Restored 2019-2022.
Nicknamed «Big Brother 1984», due to its soooo-looong shape & nod to George Orwell's 1984 famous novel.

Gary Lewis

Re: Cruise Control Basics (lesson request)

Administrator

It looks great, Jeff! Well done!

Are there variables that you get to set up. like how close to the set speed it tries to keep it, and how aggressive it is?

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

BigBrother-84

Re: Cruise Control Basics (lesson request)

Gary Lewis wrote

Are there variables that you get to set up. like how close to the set speed it tries to keep it, and how aggressive it is?

We'll, I would say that I now understand what you said about «vacuum» vs «all electronic "later"» kits.

About the controls, they respond accurately:
• Set, resume, acceleration and deceleration work as expected;
• SC operates at speed as low as 35 km/h (22 mph).
• Can add or reduce speed by small increments (about 1 mph per click).
• The system is precise keeping a specific speed. Climbing, flat road, or descending hills goes at steady speed, no big variations.

So far, it does the job correctly.

I would say that the only drawback is the "smoothness" of the control.
You feel each little speed adjustment...
Compared to modern vehicles, it acts a little bit "jerky" (but really not so much).

Gary, I don't discard the «later all electronic» swap. I'm curious about it and I'll certainly comme back with this project (I am slowly collecting the required puzzle parts).
The NOS Dealer Installed Kit was the easy way, ideal for the lazy mechanic I am.

But for the moment, even it is not 100% perfectly comfortable, it is REALLY GREAT to give a break to my right leg!

Jeff / 1984 F350 Crew Cab 4x4/5.8L w351 4V/ T18/ D50 4.10 front/ 8' bed.
Restored 2019-2022.
Nicknamed «Big Brother 1984», due to its soooo-looong shape & nod to George Orwell's 1984 famous novel.

Gary Lewis

Re: Cruise Control Basics (lesson request)

Administrator

So this kit doesn't have adjustments for how close it is to hold the speed to the set point? I'd bet the Dana kits do as I had one of them on the Citation and it had at least two adjustments - hysteresis and aggressiveness.

But yes, any speed control is better than none. I use mine frequently and am amazed at how smooth it is compared to the Bullnose unit, but I'd take a Bullnose unit any day over nothing.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

BigBrother-84

Re: Cruise Control Basics (lesson request)

Gary Lewis wrote

So this kit doesn't have adjustments for how close it is to hold the speed to the set point?

I confirmed it doesn't.

But the default settings seem accurate and precise. Slight variations on hilly road, but not more then my 2018 Volt or my 2019 Terrain.

And when I set the desired speed, it stays there.

If it wasn't this very slight "jerk" effect, I would say it's perfect.

Jeff / 1984 F350 Crew Cab 4x4/5.8L w351 4V/ T18/ D50 4.10 front/ 8' bed.
Restored 2019-2022.
Nicknamed «Big Brother 1984», due to its soooo-looong shape & nod to George Orwell's 1984 famous novel.

Gary Lewis

Re: Cruise Control Basics (lesson request)

Administrator

I actually prefer that my speed controls lag a bit going up hill and overrun going downhill. For instance, if the set point is 65 then 63 is good uphill and 67 down.

My reasoning is that at the start of a hill it will take the system a bit of time to react and I don’t want it to abruptly accelerate or decelerate to get back to the setting.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

BigBrother-84

Re: Cruise Control Basics (lesson request)

This post was updated on .

I agree with you Gary.

I would add that speed control on a manual drive is somewhat different than with automatic transmission.

Fist time I tried it, I learned two "lessons":

• Going downhill, it can't shift down alone... So, even if the Speed Control tries really hard, the truck will accelerate if too steep and compression not enough to maintain the speed.
Requires the driver's action to brake of downshift.

• After braking on a flat road section (then Speed Control disengages automatically) and manually downshifted from 4 to 3, I touched "resume"... and realized after few seconds I was still in 3 and steadily riding at 55 mph!

Jeff / 1984 F350 Crew Cab 4x4/5.8L w351 4V/ T18/ D50 4.10 front/ 8' bed.
Restored 2019-2022.
Nicknamed «Big Brother 1984», due to its soooo-looong shape & nod to George Orwell's 1984 famous novel.

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