Building a house (off-topic!)

It does sound like a plan is coming together!  The latest info on EF and their blocks as well as willingness to work with you seems like an extremely good fit.  And having had problems pouring the shop floor when we got a hot load on a hot day with too few helpers makes me realize how important having the right help can be.

This 'EF Garage Mahal, in Scottsdale' clip might be of interest on the forum?

https://youtu.be/Fkjx52SOjTY

Sorry, I can't do imbeds from an Android phone.  

That’s interesting!

I havent caught up with the whole thread but it looks like youre getting good advice.



I know youve got plans drawn up already but I really like this design for passive cooling and keeping the sun off your roof.

Roof-mounted solar definitely pays a two-fold dividend in the desert Southwest.

I don't know that I would want to live under a carport, or pay the construction costs to build a structure over and around my home.

But I can see how a design like that might capture any small breeze and make living more comfortable.

Sorry I missed this post, my phone was crashing repeatedly and lost all sound, so I had minimal online access until my replacement arrived.

I don’t think I’d want to pay for two roofs, and the framework would have to be very strong steel to hold up to our winds here. I would actually like something like that next to the house, though, to provide outdoor shade. I am going to put a screen porch on the south side of the house for that purpose. I would love shade trees, but I don’t want their roots in the septic and I don’t want a brittle fast grower falling on the house. Our brutal climate isn’t great for growing trees that will provide any shade in my lifetime. We are not in the hottest area of Arizona, but shade is a real challenge.

ArdWrknTrk wrote

I'm not so sure about residential sprinklers until people change materials.
I've seen too many I-joist/OSB/blown fill houses completely demolished because sprinklers for a contained fire saturated the structure and turned it to pulp.

Jim, I grabbed this quote from the fire extinguisher thread because it is more about me thinking of putting a sprinkler system in my house than under-hood extinguisher systems...

I am not wanting to incite a political or philosophical rant, but I am curious about what you have witnessed regarding soggy OSB houses. Everything I turned up on the internet was to the opposite effect, that only the affected sprinkler goes off (unlike the movies) and that water damage was far less than what the fire would have done without the system. I am just looking for a balanced view, and real world experiences would help. I will have OSB I-Joists in the roof, but the walls will be ICCF and the floor will be joisted with 2x8’s. I was going to use real plywood deck in the kitchen and bathrooms, but if I install sprinklers maybe I should spend the money to use it throughout. I think CDX and 2x8’s could withstand a water event as long as I could get it dried out afterwards. The roof I have no choice because of the span, but hopefully the sprinkler systems wouldn’t saturate the ceiling and roof structure. Also, since I am on hauled water I will probably need to use a dedicated pump and storage tank. I think for well owners the recommended minimum size is 550 gallons. I know that most builders who are not forced by code to put in a system, don’t do it... but I’m wondering if this is a cost decision or are there really that many houses being badly damaged by sprinkler activations?

I think you are fine in that situation and given your construction.
Given your remote location and lack of water as a utility, it makes a lot of sense to have sprinklers to knock down a fire.

Where I've seen damage is when TGI's packed with insulation have been soaked by a leak, sprinkler or fire fighters.

it seems even if you get there the next day to rip out the sheetrock and soggy insulation the damage is done, any flake board material has puffed up and the web of the joists is not firmly attached to the flanges any more.
(Edit) things may be very different in your parched climate.
If you can get it opened up right away, things might dry out before permanent damage is done.

When the codes were changed to allow wood construction for multifamily dwellings over 3 storeys (with sprinklers installed) these structures end up being total loss.

But codes have also changed so that single family over X,XXX sq ft have to have sprinklers as well.
That plus the adoption of OSB structural members and sheathing means a first floor kitchen fire compromises the entire structure above and around it.

The way the construction trades utilize our forest resources is constantly changing. New products are being developed and written into code.
While it is all progress (and well intentioned) there are also long term fiascos.

We've seen it with EIFS.
We've seen it with fiberboard siding.
We've seen it with membranes.

Thanks Jim. I can see how this could be a controversial subject, especially if home buyers don’t know, and don’t even think to ask how the house is constructed. Just because it meets code does not mean it’s a good idea and the builder will go with the cheapest option (especially if it’s not something that shows). That can lead to a very nasty surprise later. They say OSB is superior sheathing because of shear strength and flatness, but the argument literally falls apart if moisture is involved 😬

Flat compared to what?
Plywood that is nailed/screwed & glued across 7 studs, joists or rafters???

I get it that no one wants formaldehyde in their house.
But the glues just don't hold up.
And I can't speak for Advantech, but any 'normal' OSB product doesn't have enough wax sealer to keep water out.

"Passed Inspection! And got the C.O."...  (like that means anything more than a D-   )

Your be amazed at how many people want me to cut corners where it won't be seen.
But it will effect the structural integrity of their house, is not up to code, and won't support it's very reason for being done.
Like they don't want me to level a floor and use proper underlayment grade plywood, but they want large format or marble tile over two layers of 7/16 with lots of settling and no screws or glue.  

Or they don't want me to straighten walls that will have cabinets.

After seeing some of the stuff I have to repair, I understand why many contractors have their reputation.
I really want out of this industry.

Ford F834 wrote

the blocks are a concrete form that creates a lattice work of 4”x6” tubes on 12” centers. Rebar is on 24” centers with some extra at the corners and openings.

I am curious how you ensure you get full filling of your void space?  Even on 4 inch width conventional style forms you can have issues of aggregate screening out and not having nice clean cement work when you pull forms off.  I understand you will be using small aggregate and plasticizers, but if you have 10ft tall walls with window openings I imagine it will be likely to have areas where the cement may not fully migrate into the voids.  Does this system have a way to use anything vibrating to settle the cement into the forms?  Once the cement is placed you get what you get.  They may well have all this figured out with the system, and it does look interesting, but the size of the flow channels through the blocks with reinforcing looks like it could be a potential problem.  The main concern I have would be with your local ready-mix.  I have some experience running a few different grout style pumps and we typically run screen decks on the pump hopper on jobs where aggregate size is critical.  If you have a ready-mix company that isn't particular about back washing trucks to clean the previous mix fully out you can get your mix contaminated by the last load.  You can even have problems if they leave their aggregate piled on a rock pad ans are not careful when running a loader to not dig some of the rock pad rock up with the aggregate.  When we have done work in the past we may run up to (15) 10 yard loads in an 8 hour day.  If you get some trucks with the wrong aggregate you can really have a lot of trouble keeping the screen decks clean.  We try to run the same few trucks all day and we always end up going talking to the batch plant supervisor to explain how important it is to have clean trucks at the start.  We try to keep the same trucks on rotation all day.  The number of trucks depends on the commute from the batch plant.  The whole reason I discussed this is if you get a contaminated batch or the wrong aggregate size I have serious reservations about getting full infill in the flow channels trough the block.

I do not want to dissuade you, and I am not by any means an expert on this system.  I just wanted to give you some other points to think about andaybe an idea to discuss with the concrete supplier.

Andrew, thank you for your experience and insight. I have essentially zero concrete experience so I am really just taking the seller’s word at face value and trusting what I see in the videos. This is also why I want someone with experience to help with the pour.

To repeat what I’ve read in the manuals, the pours are done in lifts of no more than 5’ at a time. You cut holes in the block with a 6” hole saw, pump the grout in, then glue the plug back in. You start at the sides of each opening and watch the flow fill the voids under the window sill. The manuals say vibration is rarely needed, and if it stops flowing just manually jiggle the vertical rebars and add a bit of water until it flows well again. The EF block folks have been doing ICCF for 31 years so hopefully the filling is time tested and proven by now. If you can, try to ignore the obnoxious narration and awful music in this video from the “Perfect block”  company...

https://youtu.be/Uy9VTQV509A

Filling from the bottom of the lift helps immensely.
With such small aggregate and a lot of plasticizer you need to be careful using a stinger (vibrator) that you don't settle too much of the aggregate to the bottom.

I've only worked on normal residential forms and huge ones like bridge abutments. Though I did participate in an ICF house I had nothing to do with the grouting.

But, another vote for finding an experienced pump company that has a solid working relationship with your local batch plant.  

A lot has happened in a year that has kept me from moving forward with this… but I now have a set of finalized drawings that I will have copied and turn into the county. I am waiting for feedback from EF Block before I submit, but I have been over these plans hundreds of times and I think I am “there”…

Lookin' good Jon! I see some pocket doors in your design, and having some of those corner's turned into 45's saves some space. Where is the dining area? Is that just in the sliding doors from the porch?

What are your electrical code requirements for main services there? Our bare minimum is 100 amp, and 200 amp if you have electric heat. I sometimes assume our standards are the same as the US, but sometimes they are not.

Jonathan - I hope everything falls right into place for you on this.  We've been missing you but I know you have more important things to do.  Please keep us posted as to how it goes though.

We have a plan, Stan!

Good work Jonathan.
It might seem a little weird to me having to pass through the kitchen and gym to my bedroom after a shower, but it's obvious you have your reasons for the layout.

I'm trying to look these over from my phone so it's a bit of a challenge.  
Do you think you might add a pergola or something to the west patio?
I'm not used to living in the southwest but it seems like you're going to get some intense evening sun in the MBR.

I really love the clearstory windows on the high wall!
Little details like letting in that natural light make a 16' wall a feature rather than an imposing monolith.  

Here's hoping this year's plans are more fulfilling than the last.
Congratulations!  

Gary, thanks for the kind words. I do not get to participate here as much as I would like but I am still very much present. Always give me a nudge if I am missing something I could help out with 🙂

Cory, the dining room is indeed just inside the glass doors from the porch. The rooms are labeled on the first sheet, but not on the others to reduce clutter.

The electric service is currently 100A and will be upgraded to 200A. There is no requirement though. I actually wish we could drop more so I could get rid of propane, but with two households sharing the service that isn’t going to happen. I am already looking at putting 255 amps worth of breakers in the 200A service panel (!) This is not uncommon, and I have done the “worst case scenario” math and I don’t think we could ever pull 200 actual amps of draw if we tried. But that is assuming propane for cooking in both households. My HVAC will be both AC and heat pump. I don’t know it that will provide enough heat, but if not I’m sure you noticed there is a wood stove and a fireplace.

Jim, I hear your comment about the bathroom placement. Like so many things this was the compromise I arrived at considering the sloping ceiling, where the window views are, plumbing runs and so forth. I would rather have the bath and laundry flipped, but I cannot cut a 45* corner off the laundry room. I need the full length of both walls.

The west wall will indeed get hot. I have a plan to put in a ledger on the outside wall above the glass door and window. This will allow me to build on another covered porch or perhaps an elevated balcony that would double as a shade. I would do it now, except I am trying to keep my costs down. I am already nervous about finances given the rate of inflation and disproportionate lumber price gouging. The war and fuel prices are not making me any more optimistic. So I will build in the ledger that needs anchored during the grout pour and do the rest another time. I also intend to install a ledger directly below the gym window for the purpose of attaching the roof of a future east facing lean-to greenhouse. The ledgers themselves won’t cost much to do for future additions.

I didn't realize you could just imbed a ledger in the block and leave it there.  
My naive ideas of what living in the desert is like all come from having cousins in Tucson growing up in the '70's.
Around here a piece of wood buried in masonry and exposed to full sun would be the shape and texture of a potato chip in no time.

I think you'll be okay with a 200A service. Heat pumps are very efficient. It's the AC loads I would question.
But, again, if i start looking at how far things have come in 40 years I shouldn't be surprised by anything.
LED lighting also eliminates a lot of heat and is 1/8 the energy demand of incandescent.

What are you using for roofing? Will there be some passive convection to help carry away solar gain?
Do you get enough rain to make it worthwhile to capture what little there is in a tank, barrel or cistern?
I know that you're dependent on trucking water in for domestic use. If you could bank some monsoon rain for non-potable use it might help?
Grey water for any irrigation needs too. The bathroom sink, shower and the laundry are conveniently clustered and a length or to of PVC to make them separate (or allow that possibility in the future) might be a wise investment. -just like your ledger-

Anyway, I'm excited for you!  

The ledger board acts as it’s own bucking for the anchor bolts. I will have to thoroughly paint the board or just remove it from the anchor bolts and store it out of the weather until I go to build on it.

I absolutely plan to harvest rainwater from the roof for gardening and landscaping. I have quite a few IBC totes that I salvaged from the mine when I worked there. These should work until I am able to afford a more aesthetic solution. We already use our grey water for trees on our property, and the new house will have ways to do this also.