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Saginaw for a serpentine IDI: brainstorming

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ArdWrknTrk

Re: Saginaw for a serpentine IDI: brainstorming

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This may sound crazy.

Consider welding an extension 'collar' on the back of the Saginaw pulley?

You wouldn't be able to just set it flush with the shaft but it would solve the concern of not being deep enough.

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

Ford F834

Re: Saginaw for a serpentine IDI: brainstorming

Administrator

In reply to this post by Ford F834

The C2 pulley does have 1/4” less offset to the rear, but it also has 1/4” less bore length. So to my thinking mounting the Saginaw pulley 3/4” onto the shaft would produce the identical result. Just a thought. Not ideal, but one way to look at it.

SHORT BED 4-DOOR DIESEL: 1986 F350 4x4 under construction-- 7.3 IDIT ZF5+GVOD

STRAIGHT SIX 4X4: 1981 F150 2wd to 4x4-- 300 I6 close ratio diesel T19, hydroboost brakes, Saginaw steering

BIG F: 1995 F-Superduty under construction— converting to 6.9L IDI diesel ZF5+DNE2

Gary Lewis

Re: Saginaw for a serpentine IDI: brainstorming

Administrator

In reply to this post by ArdWrknTrk

Jim - I'm not sure I understand. I think you are suggesting welding a piece to the hub of the Saginaw pulley to move the whole pulley forward. Right?

That could work. A piece of material could be welded to the back of the pulley and then chucked in the lathe and bored out to match the original bore. Good idea!

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

Gary Lewis

Re: Saginaw for a serpentine IDI: brainstorming

Administrator

In reply to this post by Ford F834

That's true, Jonathan. And, the Sag has a larger shaft as well. So perhaps the extra space could be done that way.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

ArdWrknTrk

Re: Saginaw for a serpentine IDI: brainstorming

Administrator

In reply to this post by Gary Lewis

You *could* use the hub of a second Saginaw pulley, vee them both, and stack them on a shaft for welding.

Maybe brass or bronze 3/4 stock so there's no way for the pulley to accidentally get welded to the shaft?

Make the adapter plate as thick as you need, and part off the excess hub?
Leave it long enough that it bottoms and ream the back of the extension so there's not a huge amount of excess interference fit friction?

Then getting the pulley in plane wouldn't be a guessing game.

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

Gary Lewis

Re: Saginaw for a serpentine IDI: brainstorming

Administrator

Good thinking, Jim. I like all of those ideas. My only concern is how much room or accessibility there is on the back of the pulley to do the welding. Unfortunately I've packed my pulleys away.

Jonathan - Can you post a pic of the back of your Sag pulley? Maybe from an angle to see the room available?

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

85lebaront2

Re: Saginaw for a serpentine IDI: brainstorming

Administrator

Ok, one item I see, the C2 serpentine pulley I have is plastic with a metal hub, the Sag one is all metal. Next week I will try to get all the Sag stuff (Chrysler included) and get measurements ans pictures.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

"Getting old is inevitable, growing up is optional" Darth Vader 1986 F350 460 converted to MAF/SEFI, E4OD 12X3 1/2 rear brakes, traction loc 3:55 gear, 160 amp 3G alternator Wife's 2011 Flex Limited Daily Driver 2009 Flex Limited with factory tow package Project car 1986 Chrysler LeBaron convertible 2.2L Turbo II, modified A413

Gary Lewis

Re: Saginaw for a serpentine IDI: brainstorming

Administrator

That would help to know what other options are. Thanks, Bill.

But, welding to the C2 pulley would be easier than to the Sag. The plastic would melt off and you'd have clear access to the hub.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Ford F834

Re: Saginaw for a serpentine IDI: brainstorming

Administrator

In reply to this post by Gary Lewis

Here is a pic I took while measuring the rear offset of the Saginaw pulley. The access is not impossible, but not great either...

The IDI pulley for the C2 is metal, not plastic. Not that it matters since it can't be used.

Gary Lewis

Re: Saginaw for a serpentine IDI: brainstorming

Administrator

Scott will be over in a few minutes and I'll ask him what he thinks about welding that.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Gary Lewis

Re: Saginaw for a serpentine IDI: brainstorming

Administrator

Scott, who runs a welding supply shop in Tulsa, said that if we turn the hub down so we have at least an 1/8" of the bottom hub showing it'll be easy to weld it. Then he said "Remind me what welder you have? Oh, we've not gotten you a TIG yet?"

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

ArdWrknTrk

Re: Saginaw for a serpentine IDI: brainstorming

Administrator

I've done stuff with a stick that I never could have with any TIG setup I know of.
Like welding through a hole or down inside a small box.

I like TIG for the control you have, but sometimes there just isn't room.

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

Gary Lewis

Re: Saginaw for a serpentine IDI: brainstorming

Administrator

I own a stick welder, but it is near Bill in Lower Slower Delaware with a guy that borrowed it many years ago. When we moved I told him to keep it as the MIG works well.

But Scott thinks that this would be a good application for TIG. So, I may let him show me how to do it.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Ford F834

Re: Saginaw for a serpentine IDI: brainstorming

Administrator

In reply to this post by Ford F834

With the knowledge that I need to mount the Saginaw as far forward as possible, I took another look at my brackets. I was hoping that I might be able to mount the steel bracket onto the aluminum one some way. The problem is there is just no meat to bolt through on the aluminum. It looks good holding it up, but I can’t think of any way to attach it:

I am still toying with the idea of ordering the PSC horseshoe, but it gives you a very fixed location as far as the shaft axis. So one idea I had was to cut my steel bracket for support on the back side of the aluminum, and make another plate on the front and bolt through like a sandwich.

Honestly none of this is giving me warm rosy feelings. I would probably throw in the towel and go with V belts except I sent all those accessories to Czech Republic as spares for Jan. My alternator, AC compressor, and vacuum pump are all serpentine now.

Gary Lewis

Re: Saginaw for a serpentine IDI: brainstorming

Administrator

What about transferring the shape to a piece of aluminum and welding that into the backside of the housing? Wish I'd have seen this 15 minutes ago as Scott was here, but surely ......

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Ford F834

Re: Saginaw for a serpentine IDI: brainstorming

Administrator

Gary, I think Scott would have to check out this bracket in person. This is way outside my area of experience, but my feeling is that the bracket is just too darn thin to weld on. It feels analogous to welding a new bottom in a paper cup. I could be wrong, but that’s just my impression.

My next step with this is going to be to remove the reservoir on the pump. The second return for the hydroboost is keeping it from nesting inside the bracket. I will probably need to find a single return can (ironically) and run a T or other solution. With the can off I should be able to tell if the PSC adapter is even a possibility.

Gary Lewis

Re: Saginaw for a serpentine IDI: brainstorming

Administrator

I have a single-return can and will swap for the dual if that's what you need.

As for welding, I don't doubt he can do it. It is a question of if it would be strong enough after doing so.

I was going to suggest I show him my bracket, but it isn't thin so apparently they are quite different.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Ford F834

Re: Saginaw for a serpentine IDI: brainstorming

Administrator

Unfortunately I would still need a round canister remote reservoir type as the ham can won’t fit in there. But I think I have seen them in the junkyard.

I have not hefted the thickness of the 460 bracket with the pump removed, so I can’t say if it is as thin as mine or not. The three bolt bosses for the C2 pump are 0.35” thick at that point, but they are raised bosses and the rest is very much thinner. I figured it would be possible to weld it, but the strength concerns me and there is not much room for reinforcing it.

85lebaront2

Re: Saginaw for a serpentine IDI: brainstorming

Administrator

I have the pump off mine as I wanted to clean the bracket before I do anything else. I can measure the thickness for you just tell me where you want it measured.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

Ford F834

Re: Saginaw for a serpentine IDI: brainstorming

Administrator

Thanks. I guess it wouldn’t hurt to check the face thickeness where the pump mounts between the gussets or bosses if it has any, and the thickness of the curved support wall. I can check the same spots on mine to see if it is in fact thinner.

Maybe Gary, once I know the actual thickness you could ask the welding expert and see what he thinks as far as strength?

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