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Lost and cornfused

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Gary Lewis

Re: Lost and cornfused

Administrator

Ok guys, tell me if this drawing is better:

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

85lebaront2

Re: Lost and cornfused

Administrator

In reply to this post by Gary Lewis

I would put a fuse rated a little lower than the fusible link, that way a short would blow the fuse and if it was a rubbed through wire or similar could be quickly repaired. A fried fusible link is a bigger problem to fix as opposed to simply trying a new fuse. If the DUI system has failed, it will blow it again as soon as the key is turned on.

On the circuit, I am still of the opinion (yes I know what part of my anatomy is like opinions) that using the TFI system coil feed for the relay coil feed should ensure no starting or running issues.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

"Getting old is inevitable, growing up is optional" Darth Vader 1986 F350 460 converted to MAF/SEFI, E4OD 12X3 1/2 rear brakes, traction loc 3:55 gear, 160 amp 3G alternator Wife's 2011 Flex Limited Daily Driver 2009 Flex Limited with factory tow package Project car 1986 Chrysler LeBaron convertible 2.2L Turbo II, modified A413

Gary Lewis

Re: Lost and cornfused

Administrator

I can go with a fuse.

But, I'm not sure I follow on the other, so let me ask. You are suggesting "using the TFI system coil feed for the relay coil feed". But, by "relay coil feed" are you saying the power to the relay, meaning #30, or the trigger to the relay, meaning #85?

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Gary Lewis

Re: Lost and cornfused

Administrator

How's this? And, are my lines too thick? I'll try one size smaller......

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

ArdWrknTrk

Re: Lost and cornfused

Administrator

In reply to this post by Gary Lewis

I would think the "relay coil" would be the pull in electromagnet... #85.

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

Gary Lewis

Re: Lost and cornfused

Administrator

And I expect that is the answer. But, didn't want to make any assumptions.

So, if that's the case, is Bill advocating using the brown/pink wire or the white/light blue wire, or both? And, is he suggesting picking it up where the two were connected to the coil?

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Gary Lewis

Re: Lost and cornfused

Administrator

Is this drawing "cleaner"?

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Gary Lewis

Re: Lost and cornfused

Administrator

I've added a tab to the Ignition page (Electrical/Ignition) called Ignition Simplification. Please take a look and let me know what needs changed, edited, deleted, etc.

I tried to outline the advantages and disadvantages to the one-wire vs DS-II ignition. But, I did not include the "I want my Ford to be all Ford" discussion. That's because I'm trying to stay objective in this. However, I don't know that I did a good job of that, so need your input. Please!

And, there probably needs to be something added about weather protection. Perhaps Bill's pic of the relay cover? Or is that something better?

We don't have to solve all of the issues, but it would be nice to have a pretty decent how-to.

Thoughts? Comments? Criticism? Upgrades?

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

85lebaront2

Re: Lost and cornfused

Administrator

Looks pretty good sir! I am glad you did add the note regarding quality, there are so many of these systems sold on eBay that are, as I put it Chineseum, meaning very inferior quality and metal.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

Hstrymkrs

Re: Lost and cornfused

The schematic above looks good and makes perfect sense for future people like myself. I will go and check out write up momentarily.

I do not have C232 on my Bronco.

While I haven't put hands on the actual wires, I know by looking at that schematic that I can follow it and wire up the distributor.

Great job!

1985 Ford Bronco XLT, 4.9L, NP-435 transmission, NP0208 transfer case, 3.55 limited slip rear end,TTB Dana 44 with 3.54

Gary Lewis

Re: Lost and cornfused

Administrator

William - That looks like C232 in the bottom of your first pic. Check that wire to see if it is yellow.

All - I've done some slight tweaks on the web page, like adding links to Amazon for the relay and socket. However, now that I read about the socket I find that the load wires are 14 gauge.

So I found this set of a relay and socket. But the pins on the relay aren't even tinned. Does anyone know of a good, high quality relay and socket? They don't have to be a pair.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Steve83

Re: Lost and cornfused

Banned User

In reply to this post by Hstrymkrs

Gary Lewis wrote

...a table which said that #14 is good for 25 amps.

The one at the bottom R of this chart?

85lebaront2 wrote

...the yellow circuit 37 wire should be there with an open connection available. I think it would be a 1/4" terminal but can't remember or determine whether it would be male or female.

AFAIK, all '80-86 trucks have the female side of the light blue connector:

Gary Lewis wrote

Do we think it still needs its own fuse coming off the end of #37?

Absolutely. Without one, a short in the wire to the DUI would NOT burn the (heavy) fusible link wire, and would probably catch fire itself.

85lebaront2 wrote

...a fuse rated a little lower than the fusible link...

Fusible links aren't actually rated for current. They're engineered into the harness to protect the other wire. So the fuse should be sized for the DUI system's designed peak current. If it says it draws a maximum of 5A, use a 5A fuse. A fuse doesn't blow until current is 111-125% of its rating.

Hstrymkrs wrote

I do not have C232 on my Bronco.

It's sometimes taped up in the harness, or farther down under the booster. Look at my photo above.

Hstrymkrs

Re: Lost and cornfused

In reply to this post by Gary Lewis

It is a green/yellow color. I will need to put a meter on it when there is power. It just comes out of the wiring harness that exits the firewall. I will explore it further when there is daylight.

1985 Ford Bronco XLT, 4.9L, NP-435 transmission, NP0208 transfer case, 3.55 limited slip rear end,TTB Dana 44 with 3.54

Gary Lewis

Re: Lost and cornfused

Administrator

In reply to this post by Steve83

Steve - Your chart doesn't quite look like the one I saw earlier today. Mine is simpler, if I remember correctly. But it could be the same one. We will see next week.

As for that circuit, I agree. I think all the trucks have that circuit, just not the relay or stud unless they had the aux bat or trailer. Oh, or DRW. But, there were two different sized fuseble links feeding them, depending on whether you have an ammeter or not. That bit I don't really understand though.

And, the fuse is in the drawing now. But I wouldn't put a 5A fuse in for HEI. The inrush current is apparently quite heavy, and if you use #12 wire I'd go for 20A since the wire can easily handle that much.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Steve83

Re: Lost and cornfused

Banned User

Gary Lewis wrote

That bit I don't really understand though.

It might just be an indicator of the real reason behind the difference. Possibly, the alternator output dictated the use of an ammeter or light; so the presence of the meter would indicate the fusible link size, without being the direct cause for it.

Gary Lewis wrote

I wouldn't put a 5A fuse in for HEI.

That was just an example.

Gary Lewis wrote

I'd go for 20A since the wire can easily handle that much.

What the wire can handle isn't relevant - the fuse should be sized for what the load requires, which should be shown in the system's manual. I'd only use a 20A fuse if that's what this particular system needs. If loads are added later, they can either get their own fuses, or the single fuse can be replaced with one sized for the combined loads.

Gary Lewis

Re: Lost and cornfused

Administrator

Yes, the alternator size may be part of the answer to why the different fuselinks. Something I've not looked for in the documentation is if idiot lights required the base 40A alternator. I would have thought I'd see that, but haven't specifically looked for it. But, that would play into the fuselink difference.

And, speaking of what I can't find, I can't find a recommended fuse size from DUI. Perhaps it is there, but I've read the installation instructions several times and I do not see a recommended fuse size nor the current draw. And the lack of that info is why I suggested a 20A fuse. However, a better approach would be to call them and ask.

What I did find is that the distributor needs at least 10.5 volts to work. So, with that info and the fact that they recommend #12 wire, the dizzy must be a very low-impedance device and pull lots of current. So I'd fuse big to ensure the fuse isn't running hot and fails when you hit a bump way off the beaten path. I agree that's not the scientific way to choose fuse sizes, but all you are jeopardizing in this case is the distributor's electronics should it short internally. And if it shorts internally it is gone anyway.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Steve83

Re: Lost and cornfused

Banned User

Gary Lewis wrote

...all you are jeopardizing in this case is the distributor's electronics should it short internally.

A fuse isn't to protect the devices that use it; it's to protect the WIRES between the fuse & devices from overheating or setting their insulation on fire. In case the device fails internally, or the wiring harness shorts. So putting in an oversize fuse still isn't the way to go; but as long as it's not so big that the wire can overheat with that much current, it's relatively safe.

If the mfr. doesn't specify the peak current draw (which is surprising to me), it can be either calculated, or guesstimated by measurement. Measure the resistance through each current-consuming component (coil & ignition module in this case), and use Ohm's law (i = V/r, where V is peak voltage; i.e. 15.5) to calculate peak current. Or measure current with a DMM when it's working normally, and multiply by ~1.1 (to give it 10% extra) to get an expected peak. Starting off with a too-small fuse is safer than too-large; if the fuse blows rapidly, go 1 size larger.

ArdWrknTrk

Re: Lost and cornfused

Administrator

Steve83 wrote

Starting off with a too-small fuse is safer than too-large; if the fuse blows rapidly, go 1 size larger.

Yeah, I don't know how much I like the idea of losing my ignition while out on public roads...

Bad enough when my DSII box decides to crap out.

If none of the rest of the harness is going to get hurt, I'm going to fuse it for the rating of the relay (30/40A)

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

NotEnoughTrucks

Re: Lost and cornfused

In reply to this post by Hstrymkrs

Of course I am really late to the party here, but the discussion reminds me of something our friend Dan Stern, of Daniel Stern Lighting fame posted up on Mopar forums years ago. He is also well known as SlantsixDan. For what it's worth, here is the discussion from slantsix.org .

http://www.slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=15779

I did a little playing around with HEI modules years back and I was able to trigger them with a Ford DSII distributor. Never did try running an engine with one, but I don't see why not?

85lebaront2

Re: Lost and cornfused

Administrator

Essentially, what you show is what Lucas did for their "Constant Energy" ignition, the only difference was they kept the original coil from the Opus system as it was apparently compatible. Their pickup looked like Chrysler electronic ignition pickup and used a similar close gap.

I am quite confident that a Ford DS-II pickup would trigger it nicely, and if you retain the three lead plug, black is ground. This is why a DS-II system works even mounted on a plastic inner fender.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

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