Lost and cornfused

Hstrymkrs wrote

I am deleting the EGR/Smog pump only because it adds extra cost to bringing this thing back up and running. My smog pump is seized...

EGR is good for the engine - it prevents damage when the mixture runs lean (even briefly).  And it's not an expensive system to maintain or repair.

The 2ndry air pump is usually VERY easy to repair for nearly no cost.

Hstrymkrs wrote

I know these are stock pictures, but they all show the vacuum hookup.

I didn't see any pics in your post.

The pic with the vacuum that I referred to was the one Gary posted. I was confused on how to work the vacuum advance if my current system doesn't have it. I never found any pictures of the ones without the vacuum hook up, and that was my befuddlement. It makes sense that it will need some sort of means to know when to advance/retard/adjust. Please bear with me while I learn this stuff.

I attempted to dismantle the air pump, and while doing so a tone of grey/black plastic looking pieces fell out. I will look at it again.

I have no problem putting it back to stock or using the DS-II. I have been reading, and it seemed simpler and less costly (this includes time spent searching junk yard sites that never tell me anything) with the one wire hook up. However, I was never sold on this as being the way to go, and I only want a reliable and strong engine when this is done.

Thanks for the video embedding help, Gary. I remember seeing that as a child and always thinking it was ridiculous and awesome at the same time. Classic Chuck movie!

Thank you all for the help.

William

This may not be a popular opinion, but I'd bet that a one-wire system will be equally reliable and powerful as using a DS-II.  Further, I'll bet that either a one-wire or DS-II will be easier to maintain, long term, for you than the stock system.

My reasoning for the latter is that the stock system has a number of components, wiring, and vacuum hoses to make it work.  And, every bit of it is required to make it work properly.  And every bit of it is over 30 years old.

But, and this is a big "but", installing a one-wire system or DS-II system will require significant change as the distributor has to be changed and some wiring must be changed.  And then, if you do just that, you'll have a fair amount of unused components and wiring left on the truck, which you can either leave or remove at your discretion.

We can work you through any of the options and, as you can see, are happy to cuss and discuss them in print.  And each of us have our own opinions on which is best.  But what we don't know is your level of comfort with making changes, or your ability to do electrical wiring, pull and replace distributors, etc.

So, maybe we should here (see?) from you what your level of comfort is.  What questions and concerns you have.  How good/experienced are you as a mechanic or electrical wirer?

To be honest. I am comfortable with most all things electrical and mechanical. Having worked on generators has made me comfortable with troubleshooting etc. I have just never ventured this far down the road.

I was lost at how to turn a mechanical/electrical system into a vacuum controlled system. I also was lost on how the websites show options, then state not for my application. I then thought I was barking up the wrong tree.

What I have is time and skills. Knowledge I am gaining along the way. Money is a factor, but given enough time the money will get there. I hope to eventually put better axles under it if the options are available. So I can't put all my money into engine work.

You will find that I am a highly trainable guy, I just have a lot of questions as I learn and try to grow.

The statement about possibly being easier to maintain is exactly what I was wondering. The one wire system seems easier to install and maintain as I am not sure that my current wiring is up to par. This is on my list. If I end up deleting the EGR/smog pump, then it seems reasonable to just go the street DUI system as it will be a no feedback carb.

The carb and offy intake is a system should be a great combination. Is the carb too big? I don't know as I have read positive and negatives to both. My hope was to gain insights from you all as I thought this to be the friendlier of all the other forums.

My current distibutor is toast as when I was looking at it the other day, plastic pieces were falling out from under the rotor and the connection for the ICM was loose and looked broken as well. This engine sat up for approximately 13 years. The worst thing for any engine is to not be run with a load on it. The engine has been machined and is ready to go as soon as I give it the three necessities: Air/compression, Fuel, and Spark. All the other stuff just depends on one's goals. A friend use to own a 70s model Ford truck with the same engine. I think there was only 3-4 wires total from what I remember. It was simple and ran great. That is all I want. A good running engine that is reliable. I am open to suggestions, and I am open to doing the work if it is a benefit.

Thank you, again.

William

Hstrymkrs wrote

...grey/black plastic looking pieces fell out.

Then it's trash.  But a usable JY pump is usually easy-to-find, and a parts store reman is usually affordable.  I recommend keeping everything working because it's a good habit, and emissions components are required by law everywhere.

William.
You're not being difficult or even too lost.
You've already committed to a carb and intake, so I don't think there's any going back.
But again, I'm not sure of your situation or regulations.
Do what you want or need to do.

Again, I'm sorry if I posted a bad link to the earlier short shaft dizzys.  

Check out the four links I posted.
Same item, two different sellers, with storefronts on Amazon and eBay.
Sure "Chinese" but $100-120 is a deal and I have watched these products get better and better over the years.

I think going the 'all in one' route would be easiest given what you say.
It really is only one wire controlled by a relay.
... unless you have a tach, and then you need to connect that green wire to a second plug beneath the distributor.

For vacuum advance of the timing you have a choice of 'ported' or 'manifold' vacuum.
Ported vacuum would come from the carburetor and manifold vacuum would come from an inlet runner or the junction block on the firewall beneath the cowl.
Ported vacuum is zero at closed throttle, where Manifold is full.
There are pros and cons to each..

You seem comfortable with wiring, so you should order a "Bosch style" cube relay and a pigtail socket with integral mounting tab.
Again, Amazon or eBay around $10 for the set.

The existing coil wire would trigger the relay and power would come from the always hot side of the starter relay via a 10-12 Ga wire.
Power to 30, new distributor to 87, coil trigger to 85 and 86 to ground.

Hope this helps.

Hmm. I will have to search for the emission laws in Kentucky as there are no vehicle inspections. My exhaust manifold is toast as well, so that is also why it seemed easier to just delete and go back with headers. I will do more research.

Thanks.

William

CONTENTS DELETED

William - I agree w/Jim/ArdWrknTrk in that you aren't being difficult.  You are researching the situation properly before making a decision.  And, whatever your decision we are here to help you.

Hstrymkrs wrote

...emission laws in Kentucky as there are no vehicle inspections.

Federal law applies everywhere, and it's just illegal to remove or disable emissions controls.  The fact that there are no local inspections means you can get away with it for a while, but the way laws are changing right now, I don't think it'll be "forever" or even as long as you own this truck.  So rather than set yourself up for some BIG expenses in the future (when these parts are even-harder to find), I think it's cheaper, easier, & better to just keep them working.

But it's your truck.

Steve83 wrote

Hstrymkrs wrote

...emission laws in Kentucky as there are no vehicle inspections.

Federal law applies everywhere, and it's just illegal to remove or disable emissions controls.  The fact that there are no local inspections means you can get away with it for a while, but the way laws are changing right now, I don't think it'll be "forever" or even as long as you own this truck.  So rather than set yourself up for some BIG expenses in the future (when these parts are even-harder to find), I think it's cheaper, easier, & better to just keep them working.

But it's your truck.

That's what I don't like. Most of the emissions were gone when I got my 1986 a few years ago.

Where I live now doesn't require inspections.

Here, either.  But all my engines still have all their factory emissions, and they all run great; despite having ALL been swapped in from junk vehicles.  The Bronco's is approaching a million miles, without a rebuild.

Buy cheap, get cheap, We may see you "on the side of the road"

Why is it everyone can buy cheap twice or 3 times but not by quality once?

Steve, very true. Here we have an "update" clause, that essentially lets you install a later engine, but it only needs to meet the requirements for the vehicle year. I have a 1996 MAF/SEFI on my 1986 F350. The F250 HD and the F350 were still non-catalyst through 1987. I have everything for the 1996 OBD-II system, except the misfire detector and third O2 sensor. No air pump, because on the EFI 7.5L all it did was deliver air to the center of the catalytic converter.

I imagine that it is probably a cleaner running engine than the dual air pump system ever was. Since it is SEFI, there are two O2 sensors, one in each exhaust down pipe.

I never said I was buying cheap. I only said I was on a budget and I want to plan appropriately. Amazing how people read so much into a simple question of someone seeking knowledge.

So much for a nice forum where people actually try to help and not just put down. I will withdraw my questions and seek understanding elsewhere.

Thank you, Gary and others for the information provided on this site. It is informative.

Please don't withdraw the question.  And certainly don't go elsewhere.

I don't think Ron/reamer was being as derogatory as you seem to think.  I know him and that's not his style.  I think it is a situation pretty much as you said - "amazing how people read so much into" and I'll finish with "the printed word".

Stark contrast to T Doorly's posts the other day about how helpful and considerate the members of the forum are.
Maybe a response to the tongue out smiley???

While I can be pedantic and know that Ford built a compliant and reliable system, I also know that sometimes the stars don't align.
The "right" parts are out of reach or simply unavailable.

I attempted to directly address the questions in the first post, while acknowledging Bill's reservations about 'globally sourced' parts.

Sad to see William go, and I wish him the best with his project, whatever path he chooses.    

Hstrymkrs wrote

I never said I was buying cheap. I only said I was on a budget and I want to plan appropriately. Amazing how people read so much into a simple question of someone seeking knowledge.

So much for a nice forum where people actually try to help and not just put down. I will withdraw my questions and seek understanding elsewhere.

Thank you, Gary and others for the information provided on this site. It is informative.

Good afternoon, everyone!

I normally stay in the back ground [reading and learning] except for offering items, often NOS, which I find and share with fellow forum members. I now feel the need to share my thoughts for the health of OUR forum.

We are a family and one which is rapidly growing. As such, we need to work to get to know each other and realize we all have talents and different personalities. Personalities can sometimes cause friction. I sense that this is happening within this thread and appeal to all to try our best to assist each other in a way that is most helpful and encouraging. All of us have value and we do not want to lose any.

Hystrymkrs, I ask you to reconsider leaving the forum. From reading your posts, I know you are educated and write well and are willing to investigate, work and help others in the future.

Perhaps I can assist with your current project in that I have a 1986 with 4.9L engine which has been modified regarding ignition. There are other options than have yet been discussed. Please let me know if you are interested.

I hope all of you have a good rest of the day and I want to thank each of you for your valuable input and willingness to share.

Gary, forgive me if I have overstepped in what I have posted.

David/1986F150Six - You weren't off base in any way.  We are a family, albeit a rapidly growing one.  In fact, we're at 307 members as of today, which is both good and bad.  It is good in that we have more experience to help solve problems and people with which to share our achievements.  It is bad in that the larger we are the more difficult it is to know each other.

And we do need to get to know each other as we all have personalities, experiences, and ways of saying things that are specific to us.  Frankly, there have been times that people have said things in a way that miffed me.  But, after cooling down and re-reading the comment I've usually realized that they are right and I'm wrong, or that I misunderstood what was being said.  

I've known Ron/reamer for several years, from way back on FTE.  While we've not met we've communicated back and forth and we've even developed things together, like the dash patch.  So I'm confident that he didn't mean that William is cheap.  In fact, he was probably referring to his own debacle with non-Ford parts.

Given that, I expect that this is a misunderstanding of what was meant with particular words and emoticons.  And I, too, hope that William will reconsider.  But whatever happens, we all need to be cognizant of how things might be taken, in spite of how they were meant - myself included.  

Hi Hatrymkrs
First off, my apologies, if I offended you in anyway, But I was just reacting to my actual experience with going to the one-wire HEI system.
I was not willing to do the Duraspark II system cause the 1-wire seemed very easy and (for me) was cheap.

After getting the HEI and having to get a relay so the HEI would be fed a true 12V, And Gary was the one to show me how to wire it, the HEI didn't last 1 driving season, the module popped, leaving me on the side of the road. A tow home and a call the company, got a new module, got it running, for about 4 weeks, then it starting popping and backfiring, loss of power. It died again, but I got it back to "sad" life.
Called them again and got a whole new HEI Dizzy, threw the first on in the trash, installed the second. It ran OK for 1 season and started the same "popping" again.
Pissed, I ripped it out and with the help of Gary and others here, I sourced a Duraspark II, Dizzy and module, along with the correct harness.

Wired it all up and it's been running great for 3+ years now!

My comment "buy cheap get cheap" is really commenting on me.

I leaned my lesson, and just don't want anyone else stranded with lower quality stuff.

Guess I'm a believer of NOS Ford parts that can run and run.

Besides a duraspark dizzy "looks" better (to me) that that big honking HEI that I had.

Hope this helps.
Ron