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Issues With Big Blue!?!?!

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Gary Lewis

Re: Issues With Big Blue!?!?!

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Bill - I'm not sure how to answer your question. I've looked but I have to translate "crew cab" to a wheelbase, which I think is 168". Then I look at the parts list, which appears to be #14, to see the answer, and I see 2wd and leaf springs, but no "DRW".

So, maybe you can take a look. The info is here: Suspension & Steering/Crossmembers.

As for the storms, I think Jonathan is sending them, not me.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

85lebaront2

Re: Issues With Big Blue!?!?!

Administrator

That was what I noticed, Darth does not have front leaf springs, rear yes, front has big coils.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

"Getting old is inevitable, growing up is optional" Darth Vader 1986 F350 460 converted to MAF/SEFI, E4OD 12X3 1/2 rear brakes, traction loc 3:55 gear, 160 amp 3G alternator Wife's 2011 Flex Limited Daily Driver 2009 Flex Limited with factory tow package Project car 1986 Chrysler LeBaron convertible 2.2L Turbo II, modified A413

salans7

Re: Issues With Big Blue!?!?!

Did Ford offer the F450(F-SuperDuty) before 1990? Could be why there is mention of leaf springs and 2wd.

85lebaront2

Re: Issues With Big Blue!?!?!

Administrator

1989 is when the F-super duty came out, had a friend with a roll back wrecker, 6.9L Diesel that seriously needed a couple of cans of compression in it. It was a live axle 2WD.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

Nothing Special

Re: Issues With Big Blue!?!?!

In reply to this post by ArdWrknTrk

ArdWrknTrk wrote

Gary,
In reply to your first post.
Yes the bump rubbers are very close to an F-250's reverse arch springs.

In large part to the TTB's inability to deal with geometry changes and partly because of the way the TTB twists the leaf spring on its bushing and shackles.

There was a little discussion about this in the previous 2wd to 4wd F-250 thread.
I have no idea what Ford was thinking and Bill refers to it as a crackhead design.

Also due to the positions along the lever, the wheel travels quite a bit more that the spring, so 1" of up-travel at the spring is closer to a whopping 2" at the wheel. OK, maybe not enough to get excited about, but it is significantly better than it looks.

By the way, that's also why you need to put F-350 springs on an F-250 if you swap to a solid axle. The F-250 springs are a lot stiffer than F-350 springs since they don't flex as much for the same wheel travel. Putting a solid axle under TTB springs gives a really stiff ride.

Bob
Sorry, no '80 - '86 Ford trucks
"Oswald": 1997 F-250HD crew cab short box, 460, E4OD, 4.10 gears
"Pluto": 1971 Bronco, 302, NV3550 5 speed, Atlas 4.3:1 transfer case, 33" tires
"the motorhome": 2015 E-450-based 28' class C motorhome, 6.8L V-10
"the Dodge": 2007 Dodge 2500, 6.7L Cummins

ArdWrknTrk

Re: Issues With Big Blue!?!?!

Administrator

How far is it from the pivot point on the opposite side of the cross member to the center of the spring?
And how far is is from the centerline of the spring to the centerline of the contact patch?

I'm going to measure it tomorrow.

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

Nothing Special

Re: Issues With Big Blue!?!?!

ArdWrknTrk wrote

How far is it from the pivot point on the opposite side of the cross member to the center of the spring?
And how far is is from the centerline of the spring to the centerline of the contact patch?

I'm going to measure it tomorrow.

The spring is about 60% of the way to the center of the tire, so my 2" was an exaggeration. It's really more like 1 5/8". But the point is that it's not quite as bad as it looks.

And my '97 F-250 also has about 1" up-travel at the bump-stops.

ArdWrknTrk

Re: Issues With Big Blue!?!?!

Administrator

So 1 5/8" wheel travel before the stop is contacted and maybe another 7/8--1" before it bottoms?

It's really no wonder why 250 ball joints get destroyed so quickly.

Somebody get Gary a 'new' cross member, D60, RSK and some Superduty springs.
Not only will he appreciate the ride quality, the turning radius is greatly improved.

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

Gary Lewis

Re: Issues With Big Blue!?!?!

Administrator

In reply to this post by Nothing Special

And I wonder why Big Blue rides so poorly?

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Gary Lewis

Re: Issues With Big Blue!?!?!

Administrator

In reply to this post by ArdWrknTrk

ArdWrknTrk wrote

So 1 5/8" wheel travel before the stop is contacted and maybe another 7/8--1" before it bottoms?

It's really no wonder why 250 ball joints get destroyed so quickly.

Somebody get Gary a 'new' cross member, D60, RSK and some Superduty springs.
Not only will he appreciate the ride quality, the turning radius is greatly improved.

Hmmmm, how hard is that to do? (Not the cross member, that's a given.) D60 from?

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

ArdWrknTrk

Re: Issues With Big Blue!?!?!

Administrator

This post was updated on .

D60 from any F-350 with the same gear ratio as Big Blue.

Also you need the pitman arm and panhard bar w/bracket that attaches to the cross member.
... and the front driveshaft.
The 350 lift blocks from the rear will keep it from looking like a dog dragging its butt.

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

Gary Lewis

Re: Issues With Big Blue!?!?!

Administrator

Maybe I'd better get things going first, with the EFI, ZF5, hydroboost, 3G, cross member swap, etc before I take that on.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

ArdWrknTrk

Re: Issues With Big Blue!?!?!

Administrator

Maybe you should put some feelers out for a 4x4 350 with a blown engine or a rear hit.

I'm sure with all your social media contacts something will turn up for the scrap weight price.

Janey's used to you dragging home the most forlorn mongrels by now!?!?!
Tell her you need it for the cross member and remind her how dangerous it would be to have Big Blue drop all its steering and suspension out on the trail.

Scavenge what you need, part or crush the rest.
You'd have the cross member to go forward, and can do the rest later.

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

Gary Lewis

Re: Issues With Big Blue!?!?!

Administrator

Interesting! Yes, Janey is used to that. Huck was certainly a mongrel.

Wish I had the 1990+ MPC to know how late I can go to get that cross member. May just have to buy one.

And, which F350's had the D60?

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

ArdWrknTrk

Re: Issues With Big Blue!?!?!

Administrator

Huck would have been good for both the floor and cross member, as Bill said.
Brownie was... what? A stunning example of a well cared for and unmolested classic?

I think pretty much any 4x4 F-350 of this vintage has the D60.
And for sure they all have the 460/IDI cross member.*Edit, there were some with the I-6*

I'm no "expert" though. Jonathan is probably much better informed than I.

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

Nothing Special

Re: Issues With Big Blue!?!?!

In reply to this post by Gary Lewis

Gary Lewis wrote

And I wonder why Big Blue rides so poorly?

I always thought that a decent ride with a leaf spring TTB was impossible when I had my '85 F-250. But now with my '97 I really don't think it's that terrible. It could certainly be better, but before I got this truck I was sure I'd be swapping to a solid axle if I got another F-250 (I was more looking for an F-350, just to avoid the TTB). I don't know why my '97 is better than my '85 was. There are certainly some differences in the trucks ('85 was a RCLB with 351 and 4 speed, '97 is a CCSB with 460 and E4OD, longer wheelbase and more weight certainly smooth some rough edges). And I've decided that I like the lower ride height of the TTB, so I'm sticking with it now.

Gary Lewis wrote

Hmmmm, how hard is that to do? (Not the cross member, that's a given.) D60 from?

Swapping a solid Dana 60 is a piece of cake. Get springs, track bar and axle from a '86 - '97 F-350, take out the F-250 stuff and bolt in the F-350 stuff. At least some of the steering linkage probably also needs to be swapped over. And F-350s had a double Cardan joint at the transfer case end of the front driveshaft. So either get the right yoke for your 'case, or get a 'case from an F-350 and run the F-350 driveshaft. Or else run the single Cardan joint from the F-250, but you might need to change the length of the 'shaft. Some people say they get a vibration running the single Cardan with a solid Dana 60, but a lot seem to say it works fine.

Then as ArdWrknTrk says, you'll need to lift the rear a couple of inches to level it out.

Or for an even better ride (and another few inches of lift) you can also reverse the shackles. And for a better ride yet go with SuperDuty springs (I forget which code specifically).

It's all just incremental changes (read "scope creep").

ArdWrknTrk

Re: Issues With Big Blue!?!?!

Administrator

Gary is renowned for his scope creep (and he has the epic threads to back it up)

If a cross member alone is $1250, why not get a truck to go with it and still have close to $1000 for gas?

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

FoxFord33

Re: Issues With Big Blue!?!?!

I don't know about having to correct the ride height in the rear: I've seen Big Blue up close, and there is already quite a rake! Keep in mind that it is the 250 HD, and therefore is kind of hybridized between the 250 and the larger animals...

And! (afterthought) it would be sad to not be able to re-use the TrueTrac, or whatever locker is in the TTB right now. Is it transferrable to the D60?

Ford Grand Wagoneer - 1990 Jeep Grand Wagoneer preparing to receive a Ford drivetrain...

A Keeper - 1993 F-150 XLT Super-Cab 5.0 EFI 2WD E4OD 8.8" with 3.55 gear Sold it for my Grand Wagoneer project!

Gary Lewis

Re: Issues With Big Blue!?!?!

Administrator

First, I'm not sure the right word is "renowned". I think "notorious" is more appropriate. Guilty as charged.

As for raising the rear of Big Blue, Jonathan is right. Bringing the front up would be a good thing to take a bit of rake out. But, I'm also going to take some of the leaves out of the pack of seven to try to take some of the brutality out of the suspension. (I think I have the same rear springs as Bill does in his CC DRW F350.) So that may drop it a bit.

Anyway, if it really is that easy then maybe. But not on the first go-round.

However, let me show my ignorance. The front axle we are talking about is solid - right? And, I see that the D60's did come in 3.54 so that would match. I'd lose my Trutrac diff in the D44, but I'm not sure that having it up front is a good thing - especially given my recent experience with the rear Trutrac kicking in and it walking sideways on wet pavement. So, I could probably put an air or electric locker in and be better off anyway.

Hmmmm.....

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Gary Lewis

Re: Issues With Big Blue!?!?!

Administrator

In reply to this post by FoxFord33

Missed the afterthought. But, I think I addressed it. If what I've read is right, that you do NOT turn corners under power with it in the front on slick pavement, then that has me worried already. So having the ability to lock it when needed would be nice instead of having it come in when it wants to do so.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

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