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EFI For Dad's 400

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Gary Lewis

Re: EFI For Dad's 400

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Ray - Interesting! How warm does the ECU get? Does it need to be thermally sinked, or can it be put in a weather-tight case?

As for the Ranger wiring, that's a good spreadsheet. Or, maybe I should say "pdf". Could you email it to me in spreadsheet format? I'd like to use it.

I appreciate the input and all the time it is taking to help me. Once I really get going on this there will be many, many more questions. But, please keep the creative juices flowing.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

NotEnoughTrucks

Re: EFI For Dad's 400

I don't think heat dissipation is an issue. The case provides the heatsink for the devices and most of the heat would be produced by the various output drivers which are primarily FET's

The GM applications I am thinking of are very similar to the EECV in terms of construction materials and methods. The 90's TBI trucks had this ECU mounted behind the glovebox and the same ECU was used under the hood of some compact cars in a box with maybe 1" of air gap around the ECU case. In the 87 to 91 Ford trucks, the ECU is mounted in a fairly tight area behind the drivers kick panel and I don't think air circulation is a prominent feature, so I don't anticipate any problems would arise with regards to operating temperature.

One thing about the EECIV/EECV ECU is that the connector is proven to be quite resistant to environmental conditions. This should be relative to the fact that Ford did use that connector under the hood in many applications.

Gary Lewis

Re: EFI For Dad's 400

Administrator

Good to know. Thanks.

So, a sealed box, even if plastic, should do it. But, if it were aluminum all the better as it would dissipate the heat. I've looked and there are lots of such boxes available, so that shouldn't be a problem. Cool!

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

85lebaront2

Re: EFI For Dad's 400

Administrator

GM for a few years had their ECM in a box under the air filter housing, the harness was sealed with a rubber grommet so when the air filter housing was attached it was weatherproof.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

"Getting old is inevitable, growing up is optional" Darth Vader 1986 F350 460 converted to MAF/SEFI, E4OD 12X3 1/2 rear brakes, traction loc 3:55 gear, 160 amp 3G alternator Wife's 2011 Flex Limited Daily Driver 2009 Flex Limited with factory tow package Project car 1986 Chrysler LeBaron convertible 2.2L Turbo II, modified A413

Gary Lewis

Re: EFI For Dad's 400

Administrator

I was thinking that some did put the ECU in the air filter housing/box, but couldn't remember who did. If it was in the bottom of the air box it would get cooling air, and unless you went in really deep it would remain dry. But, there's probably not enough room in the existing air box?

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dusty A

Re: EFI For Dad's 400

In reply to this post by Gary Lewis

Here’s a lightning intake setup for an idea on airbox and inlet tube setups. The 96 F150 mass air lid will fit to the same lower portion of the airbox and that lightning air inlet tube should work with the mass air with a little trimming. Hope that helps brother.

Gary Lewis

Re: EFI For Dad's 400

Administrator

That's very helpful, Dusty. I guess I hadn't realized that the Trick Flow intake has a single throttle body, unlike the 460 outfit I'm using on Big Blue. But, I looked and you are right.

However, I'm a little confused. The 96 F150 mass air lid will fit to even the SD lower portion of the airbox, but you are saying that I'd want the Lightning air inlet tube to use with it?

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dusty A

Re: EFI For Dad's 400

Correct. That tube will work with the mass air I believe. It may have to be shortened a little to accommodate room for the mass air meter. Both air-boxes share the same lower. That trickflow is a good choice for your motor. It flows really well.

Thanks and Godbless,

Dusty Ashburn

On Apr 10, 2019, at 9:58 PM, Gary Lewis [via Bullnose Enthusiasts] <[hidden email]> wrote:

That's very helpful, Dusty. I guess I hadn't realized that the Trick Flow intake has a single throttle body, unlike the 460 outfit I'm using on Big Blue. But, I looked and you are right.

However, I'm a little confused. The 96 F150 mass air lid will fit to even the SD lower portion of the airbox, but you are saying that I'd want the Lightning air inlet tube to use with it?
Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/soon-to-be ZF5/3.55's & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Dusty A

Re: EFI For Dad's 400

And for air inlet tube, I’m talking about the rubber tube going from the throttle body to the airbox in the picture.

Gary Lewis

Re: EFI For Dad's 400

Administrator

Yes, I thought so.

By the way, don't forget to start a thread to introduce yourself in the New Members Start Here folder.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

85lebaront2

Re: EFI For Dad's 400

Administrator

In reply to this post by Dusty A

Problem might be the MAF size, the 302/351 engines use an 80mm MAF, the 460s use a 90mm MAF, I ran the flow curves on three I have and an 80mm curve I found, the 80mm may max out on his 408 M block.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

Gary Lewis

Re: EFI For Dad's 400

Administrator

Bill - Looking at the Trick Flow site there are two upper plenums: 75 and 90 mm. I'll have to check with Tim to see which one we ordered. (He still has it at his shop using it for measurements.) Hopefully it is the 90 mm one.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

85lebaront2

Re: EFI For Dad's 400

Administrator

I just wish there was a better system for the 460s.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

Gary Lewis

Re: EFI For Dad's 400

Administrator

Meaning a better upper and/or lower plenum? Larger throttle body? Different intake plumbing?

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

85lebaront2

Re: EFI For Dad's 400

Administrator

Better upper and lower plenums, have you ever seen the 1996 454 Chevy intake manifolds, the runners circle about 1 1/2 turns to get the length to help the low end torque. The 460 lower plenum is really nothing more than an aluminum 180° 4 barrel manifold with injector bungs. It is quite obvious Ford was not planning on putting any money into the 460, instead everything was dumped into the mod motors. The new 7.3L engine is going back to a nice pushrod V8.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

Gary Lewis

Re: EFI For Dad's 400

Administrator

I've not seen the 454's intake. But I agree that there's little science in the 460's lower plenum. And the upper looks like a real bottle neck. I think I'll do a little porting/smoothing/blending/rounding as I get them ready to go on Big Blue's engine. Which I hope will be soon.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Steve83

Re: EFI For Dad's 400

Banned User

In reply to this post by Dusty A

NotEnoughTrucks wrote

In the 87 to 91 Ford trucks, the ECU is mounted in a fairly tight area behind the drivers kick panel and I don't think air circulation is a prominent feature...

Gary Lewis wrote

So, a sealed box, even if plastic, should do it.

The '87-96/7 F-series/Bronco EEC isn't in an area with lots of airflow, but it's not wrapped in plastic, either. It's almost touching the painted steel lower A-pillar, which conducts heat at least as fast as flowing air. A plastic box is a good thermal insulator, which I think would make the EEC substantially hotter than normal.

Dusty A wrote

The 96 F150 mass air lid will fit to the same lower portion of the airbox...

The '94-96 MAF air filter box is significantly different from the '87-95 MAP filter box, even though they take the same filter and their mounting trays are very similar. But you can't mix the trays, lower boxes, or upper boxes. The MAP lower box mounts to its tray with 2 grommetted screws, and to the upper box with 4 more screws. The MAF lower box has 3 screws for the tray, and slots plus spring clips for the lid.

At a glance, the lowers are almost indistinguishable. But if you notice the details, they're entirely incompatible.

85lebaront2

Re: EFI For Dad's 400

Administrator

Steve83 wrote

NotEnoughTrucks wrote

In the 87 to 91 Ford trucks, the ECU is mounted in a fairly tight area behind the drivers kick panel and I don't think air circulation is a prominent feature...

Gary Lewis wrote

So, a sealed box, even if plastic, should do it.

The '87-96/7 F-series/Bronco EEC isn't in an area with lots of airflow, but it's not wrapped in plastic, either. It's almost touching the painted steel lower A-pillar, which conducts heat at least as fast as flowing air. A plastic box is a good thermal insulator, which I think would make the EEC substantially hotter than normal.

Dusty A wrote

The 96 F150 mass air lid will fit to the same lower portion of the airbox...

The '94-96 MAF air filter box is significantly different from the '87-95 MAP filter box, even though they take the same filter and their mounting trays are very similar. But you can't mix the trays, lower boxes, or upper boxes. The MAP lower box mounts to its tray with 2 grommetted screws, and to the upper box with 4 more screws. The MAF lower box has 3 screws for the tray, and slots plus spring clips for the lid.

At a glance, the lowers are almost indistinguishable. But if you notice the details, they're entirely incompatible.

Steve, valid point with one exception, the rare CA only MAF 460 air filter mounts exactly the same as the MAP sensor version.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

Dusty A

Re: EFI For Dad's 400

In reply to this post by Steve83

I may have been mistaken then about the lid compatibility. If so then he can just get the entire box and lid assembly from a mass air truck and use the inlet tube from a lightning if he’s wanting to retain a factory style air box or just use a conical filter style setup that eliminates the factory air box like pictured.

Gary Lewis

Re: EFI For Dad's 400

Administrator

Bill - That would explain why I didn't see the differences as I have the unicorn '96 CA 460 MAF box that Mark/Dyn Blin got me - awa many other CA-spec things. So I've been looking at that in comparison to Huck's '90 box and the lid was the difference.

Dusty - I do want to retain a factory appearance, so do want the air box. That'll be a search in the future - when I get to that point. But thanks for the suggestion.

Steve - On the ECU's location, for Dad's truck I had planned on placing it under the seat where the EEC-III one was in '82 as I used an '82 cab to replace the badly-rusted one. But, that's a decision to make way down the road as 'tween now and then I'm going to be doing Big Blue with EEC-V and with everyone's help here may figure out out to get it in behind the kick panel.

Having said that, I don't want to be cutting or banging on Dad's new paint, so the under-the-seat option may be the way to go. We shall see.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

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