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Big Blue's Transformation

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salans7

Re: Big Blue's Transformation

For $600 I would assume that the crossmember would fit like a glove. Although I do understand that mistakes happen, that's a pretty big one, especially when you consider the pretty quick shipping, which tells me they have a few of these kits pre-made. Are they all wrong? How was this not caught after welding? I'm waiting to see their response come next week because this may be a game changer for me.

Gary Lewis

Re: Big Blue's Transformation

Administrator

I'll bet Erik will be quick to get back with me on Monday.

But I can't imagine how this got out. Perhaps it is for another truck? But, the flanges on it look correct for our trucks when you look at the instructions. So it really looks like the right part, just the wrong length.

I chose not to post this in the thread about the installation of the kit as I think it is a mistake that it isn't likely anyone else will experience - assuming they don't have several of them on the shelf and ship some of them out before we get things sorted.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

Steve83

Re: Big Blue's Transformation

Banned User

In reply to this post by Gary Lewis

Gary Lewis wrote

"...Is it made incorrectly? Is it the wrong one?
This one measures 39 11/16" between the insides of the outer flanges. But my frame measures about 40".

If the bumper holes align with the frame holes, the frame is correct and the crossmember is wrong. But if the bumper holes are near the inboard edges of the frame holes, the frame horns are bent outward. Have you measured it against the BBLB dimensions?

Gary Lewis

Re: Big Blue's Transformation

Administrator

Steve - The bumper I have, which is the Warn winch bumper, fits the frame perfectly. And I've taken a look at the '85 Body Builder's book and haven't seen those dimensions.

But tomorrow I can compare it to Dad's truck's frame. The width should be exactly the same since they take the same bumpers.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Gary Lewis

Re: Big Blue's Transformation

Administrator

Why wait for tomorrow? Dad's truck's frame measures right on 40" outside/outside, and Big Blue's frame measures ~41" outside/outside. But the bumper holes in the ends of the frames aren't quite that far off, with Dad's being about 1/2" narrower.

And, the Sky bracket would fit on Dad's truck, with the outside flanges fitting the outside of the frame. But the inside flanges of the Sky bracket don't touch the inside of Dad's frame, probably because each frame rail is not as wide on a 150 as a 250.

However, I'll bet the reference point is the outside of the frames, and that would mean Big Blue's frame is bent.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

salans7

Re: Big Blue's Transformation

The inside flanges won't touch the inside of the frame on Dad's truck because it doesn't have the shackle mounts that extend past the edge of the frame rail. If you were to put the support pieces on dad's frame and then try to fit the crossmember, it should be snug. Actually, I would be interested to see if that works out because essentially that's how my crossmember will mount and I will have to find a way to box it in further since I won't have the shackle mounts to weld on.

Gary Lewis

Re: Big Blue's Transformation

Administrator

salans7 wrote

The inside flanges won't touch the inside of the frame on Dad's truck because it doesn't have the shackle mounts that extend past the edge of the frame rail. If you were to put the support pieces on dad's frame and then try to fit the crossmember, it should be snug. Actually, I would be interested to see if that works out because essentially that's how my crossmember will mount and I will have to find a way to box it in further since I won't have the shackle mounts to weld on.

Not quite sure what you are wanting me to check, Shaun.

But there are at least two reasons why the inside flange doesn't hit on Dad's. First, because there's no front shackle. Second, because an F150's frame rail isn't as wide as that of an F250.

Anyway, tomorrow I'm going to dig WAY into this. I'll measure bumpers and see where the bolts are. I'll measure Dad's frame vs Big Blue's. I'll see if I can detect any bend in one frame horn vs the other.

So, if anyone has any suggestions on what to measure, now is the time.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

85lebaront2

Re: Big Blue's Transformation

Administrator

Do you want me to measure across the outsides of Darth's frame?

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

"Getting old is inevitable, growing up is optional" Darth Vader 1986 F350 460 converted to MAF/SEFI, E4OD 12X3 1/2 rear brakes, traction loc 3:55 gear, 160 amp 3G alternator Wife's 2011 Flex Limited Daily Driver 2009 Flex Limited with factory tow package Project car 1986 Chrysler LeBaron convertible 2.2L Turbo II, modified A413

Gary Lewis

Re: Big Blue's Transformation

Administrator

PLEASE! PRETTY PLEASE!!! Right at the bumper, or as close as you can get.

And while you are at it c/c on the bumper bolts.

Tomorrow. And, thanks in advance.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Steve83

Re: Big Blue's Transformation

Banned User

In reply to this post by Gary Lewis

Gary Lewis wrote

...they take the same bumpers.

Yes, I was only talking about the factory bumper because its bolt holes can't possibly be wider than they're supposed to be. Sounds like your Warn bumper is built too wide, and that has pulled the frame horns apart.

According to your BBLB, centerline to bumper bolt is 477mm (18.78"), so between the bolts would be double that.

Gary Lewis

Re: Big Blue's Transformation

Administrator

I found that 18.78" late last night on Pg 33 as well. So that makes it 37.56" c/c on the bumper bolt holes. I'll check that, but I know that the distance is more than that on Big Blue.

As for how that happened, without looking I'm loathe to point at the Warn bumper as the culprit. If I remember correctly it has a lot of slop and can be installed on trucks that have a wide range of dimensions. But, I'll check that as well.

However, that does beg the question of how to correct the problem?

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

85lebaront2

Re: Big Blue's Transformation

Administrator

In reply to this post by Gary Lewis

Bumper bolts won't help you Gary, I have the 1990 bumper on Darth and it mounts to the outside of the frame in 4 slots to allow for vertical adjustment.

After reading the next two posts, I think before I committed any more effort into BB, I would try to get a centerline from the rear cab mount, suspension crossmember and from that check the 18.78" measurement to each side of the frame. There is no telling what

did with the front portion of BB or if the front of the frame was previously damaged.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

Gary Lewis

Re: Big Blue's Transformation

Administrator

Bill - Yeah, bumper bolt hole measurements on Darth won't help. But the outside/outside frame measurement would, which is probably what you are going to put in the "next two posts".

As for further work, I think you are right. I need to hold off doing anything else to Big Blue until I find out what the problem is and how/if it can be corrected. And the best way to figure that out is via copious measurements and comparison to the body builder's book and to other trucks - like Dad's and Darth.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

85lebaront2

Re: Big Blue's Transformation

Administrator

Darth is probably closer to BB as to the frame, main difference is 2WD vs 4WD. I will try to get them as soon as possible, but due to previous plans it might be Monday before I can pull at least his nose in and measure everything.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

salans7

Re: Big Blue's Transformation

In reply to this post by Gary Lewis

I was referring to how the crossmember fits on an F150 frame since I fear that's what I might actually have. What is the width of a frame rail on an F150 versus an F250 and F350?

Steve83

Re: Big Blue's Transformation

Banned User

In reply to this post by Gary Lewis

Gary Lewis wrote

...how to correct the problem?

It's a LOT easier to bend the frame horns than you might expect.

Come-along; long C-channel with a loop welded to one end that slips over the frame horn; porta-power; hi-lift jack... To bend the Left horn with a come-along, hook it from a chain on the Left bumper bolts to the Right side of the engine crossmember (so you're NOT pulling on the Right frame horn). Make sure the bolts in the bumper holes are TIGHT so they DON'T pull on the thin metal; they should clamp to the frame around the hole.

Steve83

Re: Big Blue's Transformation

Banned User

In reply to this post by Gary Lewis

Gary Lewis wrote

...outside/outside frame measurement...

That's an aftermarket (alignment) diagram, so the numbers don't exactly match the BBLB. It says 481mm to the bumper holes, compared to 477mm from Ford.

salans7 wrote

What is the width of a frame rail on an F150 versus an F250 and F350?

They take the same body & bumper, so it should be pretty close.

Gary Lewis

Re: Big Blue's Transformation

Administrator

Ok guys, I think I have some answers. And Steve, the diagram helped and I'm pretty sure to use your suggestion about how to straighten it.

I measured and marked three crossmembers starting at the rear, and put a string on it, clamped to a bed rail across the horns. The marks lined up nicely.

So the error is ~1 1/8", but I'm seeing a little bit on the passenger's side. See if you agree with my observations.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

85lebaront2

Re: Big Blue's Transformation

Administrator

Did Vernon say whether the truck had, to his knowledge, ever been hit?

I think I would try to check some diagonal measurements if possible to see if the frame is skewed. Good friend had a 93 Ranger 4WD he was talking about putting a 302 in. I pushed him to get it checked first, because when following him the bed and cab appeared twisted, End result, not only was it twisted, it was racked where one side was forward of the other.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

Gary Lewis

Re: Big Blue's Transformation

Administrator

Bill - Vernon gave me a Carfax report that says there's been no frame damage that had been reported. And given the way the three rear crossmembers lined up when I put a string on them I don't think anything back there is out of line.

Ok, now for trying to straighten the left frame horn. I put the 5/8 G5 bolt in to replace the huck bolt, with a washer up top and a lathe bit behind it, and torqued the nut/lock washer/washer combo to 185 lb-ft.

Then I put my come-along on, as shown below, and cranked it for all I am worth. (And I sure was glad I'd strapped the truck to the lift.) That only moved it in 5/8", most of which will probably be lost when (if?) I release the come-along. So I need a Plan B to generate more force.

Yes, I know I'd get more leverage if I put the come-along to the end of the frame. But that requires at least 5/8" bolts if not 3/4". And my chain won't accept a bolt that big. Perhaps using quick links?

Other ideas?

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

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