Big Blue's Transformation

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Re: Big Blue's Transformation

salans7
If you're referring to welding a long tab to the nut to keep it from spinning, I like the idea provided the weld is strong enough to withstand the torque value.
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Re: Big Blue's Transformation

Gary Lewis
Administrator
The tab will be between the nut and the frame, on the left side in the video. And it will be essentially the same thickness as the space between the nut and the frame. So the weld is only needed to keep the tab from rattling when all is said and done.

Plus, since the nut will be a G8, I don’t want to heat it much or it’ll lose temper.
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: Big Blue's Transformation

Steve83
Banned User
IDK about the window, or removing the spring, but I might stop by a pawn shop, buy a decent box-end wrench that fits the nut, and cut/bend it to fit in the frame.  And I'd also consider putting the bolt in from the top, so the nut's on the bottom.  Yes, you can still retighten the bolt after turning the wheel with red threadlocker - it doesn't cure THAT quickly.
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Re: Big Blue's Transformation

Gary Lewis
Administrator
Steve - I doubt I can get the bolt in from the top. Since it’ll be a reamed-fit it will have to come straight down, and there will have to be room to get above it to push it down.

But I like the idea ‘cause I’d tack weld the nut to the bolt after the second torquing and know it was secure. So I’ll see if I can do that.

And, I’ll see if there is any chance of a wrench going in there. I’m thinking I tried that last time and couldn’t come close. But will see.

Thanks.
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: Big Blue's Transformation

Gary Lewis
Administrator
Well, I think I've had some success.  I got the huck bolt out by using a cutoff wheel on the right-angle grinder and cutting through as close to the frame as I could w/o getting into the frame.  Then I ground what was left down until it was paper thin.  That let me punch the bolt itself out of the collar, and then punch the collar itself out.

And here's a shot of what I found, and a 9/16" bolt was a loose fit:




Then I drilled it 19/32" and reamed it .625" and this is what I have:




Then I slipped a 2 1/2" long 5/8" bolt in from the top as Steve suggested.  But, there's no way I'm going to get a wrench in there, even a modified one.  So I slipped a 3/8" lathe bit beside the head, and here's how that looks:




And here's the shank of the bolt just emerging from the three pieces it will be securing:




So now I need to get a small washer to go under the head.  And I'll figure out how long the bolt needs to be with a washer and lock washer above the nut, and then I'll cut the bolt with a hacksaw to keep the heat down.  And I'll tack a piece of lathe bit to the head to keep it from turning and to ensure the bit doesn't get loose and rattle around later.

When the bearing strip comes in I'll slip it in there and then torque things down, and then when the engine is in and the suspension is on I'll put it on the ground and re-torque it and tack the nut as the TSB suggests.  And a little bit of paint will keep it from rusting.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: Big Blue's Transformation

Steve83
Banned User
I haven't read that TSB in a while, but I thought the last step was to weld all the layers of frame together so they can't shift or make noise.  It's what Ford/Spicer did to the later frames, like my '93s & the two '96s I stripped recently.  You can see one of those welds at the end of this PSF cooler:

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Re: Big Blue's Transformation

Gary Lewis
Administrator
No, the TSB only mentions welding twice.  Once to say to tack the nut to the bolt, and the other time to say not to weld the washer nor nut to the frame.

I think I'll stick to the plan and torque it down tight.  But I can always come back to weld things later.

As for welding, Scott just came by and approved my plan for where to cut out the crossmembers.  So that's what I'll be doing tomorrow.
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: Big Blue's Transformation

ArdWrknTrk
Administrator
This post was updated on .
Gary,
Didn't you get my pic of the 5/8 grade-8 flange bolt and nut?
Edit: if the flange is large enough, you could just grind a flat for anit-rotation.

They have prevailing torque flange nuts as well.

Welding near Loctite or a Nyloc nut is pretty self defeating... isn't it?

***You REALLY don't need Red. The sheer amount of thread area is enough.
 Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.
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Re: Big Blue's Transformation

ArdWrknTrk
Administrator
In reply to this post by Gary Lewis
Somehow, I see this in my near future....    
 Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.
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Re: Big Blue's Transformation

Gary Lewis
Administrator
In reply to this post by ArdWrknTrk
Jim - I did get the pic.  But, I thought that you were buying them for your project, and didn't make the connection with mine.  

So, where was that?  Fastenal?

As for prevailing torque and welding, the TSB says:

ON HEAVY DUTY VEHICLES, IT MAY BE NECESSARY TO UPGRADE THE REPLACEMENT FASTENER TO A 5/8″ GRADE 8 TORQUE PREVAILING NUT (34991-S2), BOLT (58720-S100) AND TWO (2) WASHERS (44881-S2) TORQUED TO 250 ±6.8 N•m (185 ±5 LB-FT).

And even then it says to tack weld the nut to the bolt.  So yes, it seems self-defeating to use a prevailing torque nut and then weld it.  
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: Big Blue's Transformation

Gary Lewis
Administrator
In reply to this post by ArdWrknTrk
ArdWrknTrk wrote
Somehow, I see this in my near future....    
Maybe.  Check the huck.  I could turn mine with my fingers.  That's gotta be a problem.

And the TSB is right about removing the springs to get access.  There would have been no way to have gotten in there to ream it with the springs on.

As for the process I used, on Dad's truck I tried to split the collar like the TSB says.  It ate cold chisels for breakfast.  So I turned to the Dremel and tried to split it, and it ate several cutoff wheels for lunch.

So this time I used the cutoff wheel in the right-angle grinder from the start.  And instead of splitting the collar I just cut it off as close to the frame as I dared.  And coming at it from the wheelwell allowed the cutoff wheel to truly be parallel with the frame.

Then I tried to punch out the bolt itself from the collar.  No dice.  So I ground it as thin as I dared w/o getting into the frame, and that allowed me to punch out the bolt.  However, I didn't have a punch large enough to drive the collar through the frame so picked a G5 3/8" bolt.  Unfortunately it drove into the collar w/o driving the collar out.  So I tried to unscrew it, but the collar turned.  

Back to the cutoff wheel to cut the head off the bolt..  But this time the bolt was firmly embedded in the collar so hitting it with the hammer drove the collar out.

Don't do as I do.
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: Big Blue's Transformation

ArdWrknTrk
Administrator
Gary, I edited my post, above.
See what you think.


Since I'll have my springs and beams out to change pivots, bushings and shackles.... It seems the ideal time to change that Huck bolt (if it needs it)

 Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.
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Re: Big Blue's Transformation

Gary Lewis
Administrator
The flange will have to be 3/8" to stop it from rotating as that's the size of that lathe bit.  And I doubt it is that big.

On Dad's truck I tried a piece of 3/8" bar stock and the force of tightening to 200 lb-ft bent it so I went to the lathe bit.

Where did you find those fasteners?
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: Big Blue's Transformation

ArdWrknTrk
Administrator
Ace Hardware

Karp's Hardware in Glenbrook (Stamford), CT to be exact

On Fri, Aug 16, 2019, 8:26 AM Gary Lewis [via Bullnose Enthusiasts] <[hidden email]> wrote:
The flange will have to be 3/8" to stop it from rotating as that's the size of that lathe bit.  And I doubt it is that big.

On Dad's truck I tried a piece of 3/8" bar stock and the force of tightening to 200 lb-ft bent it so I went to the lathe bit.

Where did you find those fasteners?
Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker in front & 10.25 Spicer/Trutrac in back, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI



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 Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.
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Re: Big Blue's Transformation

Gary Lewis
Administrator
We have a very nice Ace here, so I'll check with them.  I also need to get a new head for my Stihl trimmer as this one refuses to feed, so I can kill two birds with the same bolt.  

Having the Ace is a blessing and a curse.  We've had a small hardware store for decades, and I know the guy that owns it.  I wondered how he'd fair against Ace, and yesterday I found out - he's having a "retirement" sale.
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: Big Blue's Transformation

Gary Lewis
Administrator
Well, while it is pouring outside I'll pass on getting the gas can to drain the mid-ship tank, which I want to do before any serious cutting or welding starts.

So, I thought it would be interesting to put the Sky front spring bracket in place  

Here's the email I just sent to Sky:

Erik - I laid the front frame/spring bracket in place and it is about an inch too short.  Is it made incorrectly?  Is it the wrong one?

This one measures 39 11/16" between the insides of the outer flanges.  But my frame measures about 40".

Help!

Gary

And here's the pic that was included:

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: Big Blue's Transformation

Gary Lewis
Administrator
Mid-day update:

Scotty said that the cam he wants to use, his Voodoo grind, has .500/.525 lift.  But Eric Weingartner said that they'd be fine with the Performer's lift of .500.  So, I need to take them back to Eric.  He said "I'll see if they will work.  I think the springs limited your lift."

I need to get back to Scotty to see what springs he recommends.  Wondering if I should just buy a complete engine from Scotty.  

The rain stopped long enough to get the gas cans and I've drained all I could out of the tank.  Then I carried it out to the carport - boy what a struggle with the remainder of the gas continually shifting.

Then I realized that I'd just taken some weight off the front of the truck.  Sure enough, I could easily lift it.  So I took the spare out of the back and ratchet-strapped the front arms to the frame.

And now I've cleaned up the crossmember on Big Blue and am getting ready to cut a piece of of the donor.



Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: Big Blue's Transformation

salans7
In reply to this post by Gary Lewis
Oh boy.
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Re: Big Blue's Transformation

Gary Lewis
Administrator
In reply to this post by Gary Lewis
And, here's the end-of-day report.

Didn't hear from Erik at Sky, so called and learned they are closed on Fridays.

Sent a note to Scotty, The Mad Porter, and found what springs he'd have used in the heads, so when I take the heads back to Eric I can pass that info on.

And, talked to John Keeline, the paint/body man, about 460's.  He had a friend that passed away recently, and the two of them had been into drag racing using 460's.  So John's going to check to see if his friend might have had a "new" one stashed away.

Last, I cut the opening on Big Blue's crossmember to be uniform, created a template from thin cardboard, transferred that to the donor crossmember, and then cut the piece out of it.  But, I cut it large, so I then spent quite a bit of time grinding it to fit.

The pics below show the hacked opening on the left, the cleaned up opening in the middle, and the patch on the right.  Scott says my fit is good, but it is too tight, so tomorrow I'll open things up a bit and grind a bevel in so we can get good penetration when welding.

But, the welding isn't likely to happen tomorrow as he has to go some place.  However, that's not a problem as I have plenty to do.

Oh yes - I also cleaned the underside of the crossmember.  I didn't realize that I missed it when power washing, and it was absolutely awful!  I put plastic trash bags down and scraped off what I could - including gray paint on top of grease.  Then, when I had all that I could scrape off I hit it with brake cleaner and paper towels.  I went through a whole can of brake cleaner, but it is now clean enough to weld on.  


Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: Big Blue's Transformation

Gary Lewis
Administrator
In reply to this post by salans7
salans7 wrote
Oh boy.
Yup, Murphy strikes again.  

But, two steps forward and one backward is still progress.  And you know what Jim says about progress.  
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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