Best alternator option?

Rusty, you're confusing "case" with "mounting"
95A is small case. Four holes and 130mm diameter.
130A is large case. TWO holes and 148mm diameter.

The 3.0V-6 had 7l C-C mounts
The 3-8l V-6 had 8.25" C-C mounts.

I don't know why my previous post is all jammed together with no whitespace.

That is not how I posted, and I even went back to try and fix it.

I know, but I am not confusing case with mounting though.  I have seen some evidence that with the 95A 3G there was a wide ear variant as the 95A was introduced first from what I could find.  I could never find the exact date when the 130A 3G came out but Hotrod magazine states 1994 is when the 3G was introduced by ford which makes no sense considering any 1991/1992 non DOHC Ford Taurus has a 3G alternator.  Problem is all you find for that early car is a 130A 3G with the wide ear spacing.  I dont believe the 91/92 Taurus originally came with a 130A I think they had the smaller 95A variant.

That is what is bothering me greatly is I am seeing some information to state this is true but cant find anything definitive.

Just like with the upgrade sites state you need the 8.25" spacing for any V-belt setup on our trucks.  Then it throws in you can use the smaller 7" spacing on our trucks but there may be interference with the air pump.  Never saw any clarification of what interference do they mean.  I wont be running an air pump, I actually have a spare bracket I chopped the mounts off of that I will be using and I will be putting my original bracket up in the off chance that I catch hell for not having the air pump mounted.

If there would be no problem then I wouldnt be doing the digging I am on the subject matter in my spare time trying to figure out what is going on with this information I am coming across.

Cause honestly I dont see the point in spending extra money for a 130A 3G when I would never be able to use that many amps.  I could just simply source the 95A 3G and throw a 100A fuse to blow it before it smokes the belt.  That way if I am on the highway turning nearly 3,000 rpm and the alternator decides to go out instead of throwing the belt into my water pump belt/powersteering belt/ac belt I would be able to slow down and get off the road running off the battery.

But then again I keep rolling in my mind about belt wrap.  more belt wrap you have more grip you have and our trucks have way more belt wrap that many old vehicles out there do when it comes to the alternator.

Plus this came up again recently for me at work cause we got a old timer I used to work with some 6 years ago is back again helping with the long term projects and hes pushing me on why would I need to upgrade to a 95 or 130 amp alternator if I am just adding fuel injection.  In his eyes swapping to a higher output 70A 1G alternator would be well over enough for my truck.  Problem for me is I dont know how well that will work at producing power at idle to not result in a slow down of the A/C blower or slight dimming of the headlights at full idle.  To me I feel a 3G would be the best thing for me as it will put out way more amps at idle than my 1G but at the same time I havent devised a way to limit belt slip with out causing me more work by swapping all my pulleys over and then figuring out how to do my dealer A/C.

I know I read about there being a extra sheeve crank pully out there to run a second alternator belt but makes me question if my bolt on A/C compressor crank pulley would still line up or not.

lol Yep or you could do like me and go to work in the field and source the stuff at no cost to you.  I have like 4 or 5 feet of 6ga charge cable and a mega fuse holder and a 175A mega fuse all for free from a American Auto Wire update kit I installed on a old chevelle malibu at work.

They gave two fuses and two fuse holders wanting me to daisy chain them which made no sense to have a single 175A fuse between alternator and everything then a second 175A fuse after the alternator fuse that then feeds power to the main wiring harness for the car.  I am like that means the main harness would never be protected as it would have to try and blow two 175A fuses.

I just hope the 4 or 5 feet of charge cable is enough to reach.  I estimated for our trucks its about 4 feet from the alternator to the solenoid.

Thats why I am going with a new alternator cause I basically have gotten everything else I need for free to do this conversion.  Even the spare alternator mount cradle I got for free from a 82 F150 I did a coyote swap on at work.  Same with the second cold air duct that bolts to the core support that I can chop and flip to make it work on the driverside for a dual cold air intake.

But in reality all you really need is the fuse holder, the fuse, and the charge cable.

30" to the fuseholder, another 10-12" from there to reach the relay or battery.

So, yes! If you are buying by the foot, get four.

'Better to be looking AT it than looking FOR it..

Yep, @ 13.8V with a max of 175A with a 2% drop of voltage it shows 6Ga is good for 4ft and 4ga for 6.35ft.  If I personally go with the 95A and limit my charge fuse to 100A then 6Ga would be good for up to 7ft.

Thats the thing with this kind of upgrade.  with a V belt you will never make enough amperage to actually burn through a 6ga charge wire.  Youll smoke the belt before you can generate that kind of amperage.  I am so far away on my conversion right now I still have time to flip flop on 95A and 130A 3G variants before making my final decision.

Rusty, you fret too much.
Tell the old man you want power at idle and you want to toss the Damn regulator in the garbage where it belongs.

An alternator will only load as much as it needs.
You could have a 1000A alternator and it would never squeal a belt if the regulator didn't ask for more than 90-100A.

The short ear spacing causes trouble because the big (148mm) case cannot move over enough to tension the belt with the 7" pivot.

I'm tired of rehashing this with you (a dozen times?)
Do it, or don't do it.
I don't care.
I'm using one, and I've installed countless others.

Until you get a grip, and have actual experience with it, I'm done pointing reality at your hypothetical scenarios.

Im just going to go with the 130 cause that was what I feared was it was the case is too close to the mounting bracket and doesnt allow the alternator to pivot over enough to get the belt on.

Plus out of curiosity I did a quick search on alternator belt wrap and all that.  From what I am reading it looks like 130A is quite doable with a single V belt with proper belt wrap which ours is around 180* of belt wrap.

This is the part that I just read few moments ago that has me saying screw it and just go with the 130A and set it up right and worry about it if a problem does arise.  This is from MechMan Alternators.

"Single V belt and 4 rib serpentine belts will start to slip at about 150 amps worth of load.  For minimal belt slip, 240 – 370 amp alternators should not be driven by anything narrower than a 6 rib serpentine or dual-V belt drive setup."

I also read from another source about making sure the belt is riding up in the groove of the pully and not down at the bottom of the groove and a tech article from Dragzine showing a chart from powermaster that states to put a socket on the alternator pulley and try to turn the alternator with a wrench (never specified what length I assume a standard 3/8" drive wrench) and that the pulley should not slip if it does tighten the belt up till the pulley tries to turn the engine over.

Thinking about that, I might need to tighten up the generator belt on my 56, I set the thing with about 1/4" of deflection like the shop manual says but I can still spin the generator pulley.  might be why my light some times dimly lights up on the dash at idle.

Anyways yeah, I was looking at the 130A anyways but comments like what the old timer presents it makes me rehash what I was planning and rethink it.  I still have the regulator with the delay on ebay saved in my search.  Just need to add the alternator to my engine parts list and pick it up later.

Just been following along (interesting read) but since you brought it up the 150 rule is what I based my decision on. I am running a 150 amp alternator with a single vbelt and haven't had any noise or slippage.
Powermaster told me 150 was perfectly fine with a single v and I figured they should know.

All because as Jim said - it's how much is asked of it.

If anything ever changes, will cross that bridge and worry about it at that time.

Yep and I understand the whole its only going to produce what is needed.  But being as I have seen some really screwed up things with cars working on them I tend to gravitate towards worse case situation and try to plan for it.

Sure an alternator will not produce more than is needed.  But if the regulator fails the alternator could go full field and put out max output.  That is what the fuse is for, its to protect your electrical system in the case of a major failure of the alternator.  Well if the thing fails and goes full field I am picturing belt slipping possibly being thrown off, fuse never blowing cause the recommended fuse for a 130A alternator is 175A.  Then throw in the alternator belt is situated behind my dealer A/C belt I can see it throwing other belts which could be quite bad going down the highway doing 75 mph and have multiple belts get thrown due to the alternator belt throwing.

That is where my line of thought comes into and how can I prevent something like that in the off chance it did happen.

But I never heard the 150A rule before, I have seen on the forums 90A to 100A as being the stated by people as the limit.  Seeing the 150A setting then that puts my mind more at ease as I can just go with the 130A alternator and instead of running a 175A fuse just run a 140/145A fuse in its place.  Only way it would ever reach 130A is if the alternator actually failed cause even in a heavily depleted battery I dont think the alternator would shoot up to 130A to try and charge the battery up.  Now I know you can burn an alternator up if you jumpstart a dead battery and have the alternator try and charge it.  But I dont think an alternator would put out full field amperage with a heavily depleted battery, it should put out just enough amperage to power the systems and slightly more to charge the battery.

Thats why I think it is set in stone now I will be running the 130A large case and just swap out for the soft start regulators I have on watch on ebay and let it right.  I just need to do the math at a later date to check alternator speed since my engine will be capable of turning 5,500 - 6,000 rpm and I wouldnt want to over rev the alternator.  Ill be buying a new pulley anyways for my 3G since I want a single sheave since I wont be running a air pump.

I don't think anyone will fault you for being cautious.
I kept coming across that 90-100 limit when I was doing the research a year and a half ago also but all the manufacturers I spoke to stated higher (while some didn't give an exact number). I won't say that in some cases, possibly due to belt or pulley condition, that lower limit isn't a good reference. I can only go off what I was told - no personal experience as my other trucks and Mustang are still running 1g's and are pretty bare bones in the electronic department.

Dropping the fuse down sounds like a great fail-safe to me. In fact I should do that as well since I have a 175 in mine also.

Scott,

The alternator I bought, pictured the label above, sent the chart to Gary, that he has posted elsewhere, comes with an LRC regulator installed.

It is RATED at 130A, and TESTED showing ~160A output.
The printout is right there in black and white.

I've never heard of this "150A rule", but we all know that there are dozens of different V-belts.
(I think Gates has 5 lines???)

I'm going off Ryan's old posts and videos showing a properly tensioned  belt will start to slip above 100A load.
You could watch him dial up the sink, and watch the output rise, to where the belt was starting to have traction problems.
He was selling product.
He stood behind that product.
And he wasn't trying to get people to destroy their alternator or water pump bearings.

This!
I see it with my own eyes, and practice what I preach.
I'm comfortable and confident with what I use every day.

I don't wake up in a sweat worrying about the boogie man under the bed.
I don't publicly post about   I've never had the balls to even put into practice.
And, I'm not Powermaster, trying to hype some product I'm pushing on a naive public.
(I hope you do speak with Gary, because he will speak truth, and detail why he doesn't want it in his truck)

Do it.
Don't do it.
I don't care.
I'm already there, and have been for years.

Do I use every bit of my alternator?
No.  I don't have a 3000w stereo, inverter or winch.
If I did, I'd gear drive an alternator off my PTO only when needed.
But I do like the fact that my battery is charging while I'm sitting at a light or waiting for my coffees in the drive-up line.

Just like a dyno run where there's not enough tyre to put the power to the rollers.
Would you cinch down the straps until there's 3 ton on the car?
HTH could you do that in practice?

Really interested to see what Angelo, Gary and the new 750Hp supercharged Raptor do with all that power.
Truth is, just like the LRC regulator, you apply it slowly, and if you have half a brain you back off before it kills your truck (or you)
The reality is that even 500 horse in a pickup is NOT getting to the ground without traction control.
BTDT too.

Like Scott I've been following along.  And like Jim I'd read what Ryan wrote about ~90 amps being the max from a v-belt and hadn't seen the 150 amp guideline.

But the key, like Rusty said, is belt wrap.  As I think about it, w/o stating how much wrap there is you can't state how much power the belt will transfer.  In fact, you would probably have to state what size belt awa the wrap.

Belt wrap only determines how much contact there is.
The belt is RATED by how much power it can transmit.
You could have two square feet of contact, and if the belt is only rated for two hp it is going to fail if you try to drive 10.

And then the mu of both the sheaves, and that of the belt (which belt, what composition, how old is it, etc, ad infinitum)

And that's exactly my point.
You can dicker about this, that, anything and everything.

Go out and DO it.
Actual FACTS about real world use.
Not some lab
Not whatever scenario you can dream up from bits of data gleaned from the truth or fiction of the internet,
Then pieced together to support your bias.

DO IT.
Decide if it works for you, in YOUR situation.
Come back and report what you find.
We can compare notes....

When I don't know WTH in talking about, I come out and say "this is my opinion, but I have never done X"
Then I shut up and listen to what people who HAVE done X, have to say.
I can learn this way.
And I learn what to expect or look out for if I decide to try X myself.
But I still DKS about X until I do.

Jim-
I don't really have a horse in this race. I typically stick with a stock, off the shelf setup. I was just doing exactly this:

ArdWrknTrk wrote

Decide if it works for you, in YOUR situation.
Come back and report what you find.
We can compare notes....

I wouldn't have said anything except that Rusty brought up the 150A threshold which as mentioned is what I kept finding outside of forums. And so far the setup is working for me.
I don't think I've seen Ryan's test but I am not questioning them, in the same way I am not questioning Gary's powermaster experience. Is it my experience? No. Will it be my experience the next time I fire up the truck? Maybe, who knows.

I am not trying to peddle Powermaster or get their name tattooed in a heart on my arm but since you brought it up and seem to have a negative opinion of them I wouldn't mind getting more details on it.
If I recall correctly the one on BB had a bad bearing when Gary got it.
Gary is there more to it that I don't know? I wouldn't think an alternator with a bad bearing is enough to swear them off.

Maybe we should add them to the Vendor ratings thread?

I don't remember what all was wrong with the Powermaster alternator on Big Blue.  A bearing certainly, but I'm thinking there was something else.  So I called them to get the parts and they said "We don't sell parts, you have to send it back in."

At that point I put it in the box as I'm not going to run something that I can't replace in the field.

So, am I "off" Powermaster?  Alternators yes.  Starters no.  Why?  Because the alternator isn't wired in a way that I could easily get a replacement.  But the starters are.  Any PMGR starter will replace it.

So I'll run a 3G and know I can get a replacement anywhere.

Just about every V belt I see today have knobs cut in the back side, this was done for better grip.  Goodyear Gatorback is the one that comes to mind, those belts would grab and not let go compared to other belts.  Problem is the gatorback V belt is very hard to find now a days for most applications.

This used to be the go to belt we used at work when we had V belts that just wouldnt stop squealing when tensioned to specifications.  Now we are forced to overload the tension of the belt where you can walk on it just to stop the slippage cause the gatorback belts are hard to find today.  I tried to get one for my truck for my AC as my dealer setup I think has a little slip as the belt vibrates like crazy making a rattling rumbling noise.

As far as the new stuff they have out now that I have not given a try to this is what is the specifications of the newer V belts but I may give one of them a try considering I am going to try and stop belt vibration on my AC as its annoying.

-Narrow Wedge V Belt
"Effectively handling drives from 1 to 1,000 hp, these belts
rank high in horsepower-hours per dollar, the ultimate measure of drive valve. The narrow-belt cross sections (3V, 5V, and
8V), offer higher power capacity for any sheave size and
weight.

The narrow or “wedge” design provides more tensile member
support than classical V-belts. Narrow belts handle an equivalent load, but with narrower face width and smaller diameters than the traditional classical V-belts. These features allow
the use of smaller belts or fewer belts to transmit the load, an
important advantage if your goal is to maximize power transmission efficiency by reducing drive weight and size."

-Classic V Belt
"The most widely used V-belts are A, B, C, and D classical
belts. Used more out of habit and convenience than design,
these belts can handle fractional to 500-hp drives, usually
at the lowest cost. However, they occupy more space, and
the drives weigh more than narrow-belt drives. Also, classical
belts are usually less efficient than narrow belts. But their
versatility and wide range of sizes and types make them an
attractive alternative to wedge belts.

Many classical belts are used for replacement because it is considered too costly to replace sheaves when upgrading from

classical to narrow or other belt types. Therefore, when replacing classical sheaves, it is an opportune time to upgrade to narrow or other belt types"

Not sure which one I would end up going with, its something I would have to look up the specs of the belt for our trucks and then find the same specs dimension wise on Goodyear`s site.  When I looked them up before on rockauto for instance, there is no goodyear belt listing for my truck for any belt.  I didnt try summit but I suspect its one of those things where there wont be a specified listing and youll have to find the size through either trial and error or looking up the parts.

But the belt does determine how much grip there is.  belt wrap also plays into it cause with more wrap the more contact area you have it can make belts grip better than if they were only making a fraction of the wrap.

Like powersteering, GM setups from the 70`s and early 80`s had two belts running the powersteering pump but the belt wrap was between 80* and 100* compared to our trucks that have a 180* belt wrap of the alternator.  Difference is powersteering pumps dont really need lots of belt traction unless you are locking it out.  Alternators are different as they vary the load.  But I know we used to have great luck with the gatorback v belts on grip just not avaliable anymore from Goodyear`s website as I guess they have been replaced.

Thanks Gary!

Gary Lewis wrote

So, am I "off" Powermaster?  Alternators yes.  Starters no.  Why?  Because the alternator isn't wired in a way that I could easily get a replacement.  But the starters are.  Any PMGR starter will replace it.

So I'll run a 3G and know I can get a replacement anywhere.

This I completely get and it's more of a configuration avoidance than a vendor. Smart and something everyone should at least be aware of when making changes. While I like the 1 wire I have - it's no secret the 1 wire has it's cons - l only went that way since I found it NIB really cheap locally. I also purposely kept the intact 2G harness that I can take on long trips and swap into C610 in an emergency.

I dont like powermaster either for the simple fact that they offer those generator look alike alternators but yet at the time they were one wire alternators.  Now they have them where they have a generator light hook up but still they do not utilize the OE external regulator for people that want to upgrade to an alternator but maintain the OE look for older cars.

There would be a huge market for something like that where you can unbolt your generator bolt the new generator look alike alternator in its place then hook up your OE wires and you are done.  No cutting wires out, no modifying the regulator to be a rewiring junction point.

As far as PMGR starters goes, I found some good pricing on those starters off rockauto.  I wouldnt go to powermaster for theirs when I can get the same PMGR starter style from else where for less money.

Haha now I know it will sound like I am defending Powermaster

To be fair though disliking a vendor because they don't provide a product you are looking for is entirely different than disliking them because they offer substandard products, have terrible customer service, or have less than honest intentions.

Rusty_S85 wrote

I dont like powermaster either for the simple fact that they offer those generator look alike alternators but yet at the time they were one wire alternators.  Now they have them where they have a generator light hook up but still they do not utilize the OE external regulator for people that want to upgrade to an alternator but maintain the OE look for older cars.

I'd reach out to them if you think there would be demand for such an animal. The tech guys I've talked to have been really helpful.

Sorry, my fault for derailing the thread.