Gary Lewis Posted November 5, 2023 Share Posted November 5, 2023 I have an update on the harmonic balancer. I have had the replacement sitting in a box for for about a month now. I decided to wait and replace it while I was doing the power steering pump, gearbox, and lower steering shaft. I figured the more room would make things easier (and it has so far). There were a few comments about what appears to be RTV or some kind of sealant around timing chain cover. Not only is it visible, I have noticed that some of it has separated and is just dangling there. This is external, but I am curious if this is something I should be worried about? Second, when I removed the balancer bolt and washer, I found sealant around the washer and also on the bolt itself. There may have also been some around the front main seal. Does anyone know if this would be a factory application or, again, if it would be something to worry about? I am still deciding on checking the timing chain. I am leaning toward removing the fuel pump because 1) I have spare gaskets and 2) I have a lot of room to do it. I'm also going to replace the front main seal while I'm at it. I don't think that the factory would have used that much RTV, but it won't be hurting anything. And I like the plan to do everything at once because that'll give you more room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FuzzFace2 Posted November 5, 2023 Share Posted November 5, 2023 I don't think that the factory would have used that much RTV, but it won't be hurting anything. And I like the plan to do everything at once because that'll give you more room. Time to check the chain was before you pulled the balancer so you could set it to TDC and then turn the balencer each direction a little so the dist. just started to move and you could then see just how much play was in the chain by deg. How many miles on the chain now? Also sealer on the bolt & washer I think is to stop oil from working its way out. Dave ---- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtymac Posted November 5, 2023 Author Share Posted November 5, 2023 I don't think that the factory would have used that much RTV, but it won't be hurting anything. And I like the plan to do everything at once because that'll give you more room. The shop manual mentions applying polyethylene grease (or equivalent) to both the backside of the seal during install and the backside of the balancer during install. The Internet has led me to 1) arguments over what that is and 2) a possible equivalent being engine assembly lube. Assembly lube seems to vary quite a bit so I'm not sure what to use just yet. I would like to get the seal out and replaced without removing anything else from the engine. The shop manual mentions a couple of tools to do that, T70P-6B070-A and T70P-6B070-B. I haven't found equivalent rental options. I found the tool to push the new seal on and its accessible. I've known a lot of people to just tear the old seal out and hammer the new one one with a 2x4 or piece of pipe but I'd rather not go that route. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtymac Posted November 5, 2023 Author Share Posted November 5, 2023 Time to check the chain was before you pulled the balancer so you could set it to TDC and then turn the balencer each direction a little so the dist. just started to move and you could then see just how much play was in the chain by deg. How many miles on the chain now? Also sealer on the bolt & washer I think is to stop oil from working its way out. Dave ---- I did line everything up at TDC before removing the balancer to check my timing marks again and see if they had changed since previously adjusting the timing. Things did move a bit but not much. The engine has 139k miles on it. I don't know if the chain has been replaced or not. Everything I have removed so far appears to be original but I can't guarantee that. Gary previously mentioned two options for checking the timing chain -- removing the fuel pump or removing the distributor. My intention is to go the fuel pump route since my steering is currently removed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FuzzFace2 Posted November 5, 2023 Share Posted November 5, 2023 The shop manual mentions applying polyethylene grease (or equivalent) to both the backside of the seal during install and the backside of the balancer during install. The Internet has led me to 1) arguments over what that is and 2) a possible equivalent being engine assembly lube. Assembly lube seems to vary quite a bit so I'm not sure what to use just yet. I would like to get the seal out and replaced without removing anything else from the engine. The shop manual mentions a couple of tools to do that, T70P-6B070-A and T70P-6B070-B. I haven't found equivalent rental options. I found the tool to push the new seal on and its accessible. I've known a lot of people to just tear the old seal out and hammer the new one one with a 2x4 or piece of pipe but I'd rather not go that route. I think the big thing on the grease is to make sure the seal lip has lube so when the motor is first started and before oil gets to it, remember it should have a oil slinger to keep oil from the seal, it dose not run dry and hurt it. I think I used wheel bearing grease on my 300 six seal as I had it handy. The assy. lube I had was for a the WC T5 transmission I rebuilt and was more to hold needle bearing in place till the shaft was installed so did not think it would "lube" too good. I dont see what the issue is with using pipe to drive in the seal? Put a cap on the hammer end to get a even hit to drive it in and you are good in my book. When under the shady tree you use shady tools Dave ---- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FuzzFace2 Posted November 5, 2023 Share Posted November 5, 2023 The shop manual mentions applying polyethylene grease (or equivalent) to both the backside of the seal during install and the backside of the balancer during install. The Internet has led me to 1) arguments over what that is and 2) a possible equivalent being engine assembly lube. Assembly lube seems to vary quite a bit so I'm not sure what to use just yet. I would like to get the seal out and replaced without removing anything else from the engine. The shop manual mentions a couple of tools to do that, T70P-6B070-A and T70P-6B070-B. I haven't found equivalent rental options. I found the tool to push the new seal on and its accessible. I've known a lot of people to just tear the old seal out and hammer the new one one with a 2x4 or piece of pipe but I'd rather not go that route. I think the big thing on the grease is to make sure the seal lip has lube so when the motor is first started and before oil gets to it, remember it should have a oil slinger to keep oil from the seal, it dose not run dry and hurt it. I think I used wheel bearing grease on my 300 six seal as I had it handy. The assy. lube I had was for a the WC T5 transmission I rebuilt and was more to hold needle bearing in place till the shaft was installed so did not think it would "lube" too good. I dont see what the issue is with using pipe to drive in the seal? Put a cap on the hammer end to get a even hit to drive it in and you are good in my book. When under the shady tree you use shady tools Dave ---- Oh just remembered the seal removal. Drill 2 holes one on each side that you can screw in sheet metal screws. Screw in the screws and use vice grips to pull the seal out. You can use a 2nd pair of grips to put on the first set and hammer on it to pull the first set of grips and screw out with the seal. I think I used a large screw driver to pry it out. As long as you dont hurt the sealing surface you are good. I do use a little liquid sealer on the outside of the seal and housing. Because I had my cover off, bad gasket at top, I was able to remove and install the seal on the bench on my 300 six. Dave ---- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtymac Posted November 5, 2023 Author Share Posted November 5, 2023 Oh just remembered the seal removal. Drill 2 holes one on each side that you can screw in sheet metal screws. Screw in the screws and use vice grips to pull the seal out. You can use a 2nd pair of grips to put on the first set and hammer on it to pull the first set of grips and screw out with the seal. I think I used a large screw driver to pry it out. As long as you dont hurt the sealing surface you are good. I do use a little liquid sealer on the outside of the seal and housing. Because I had my cover off, bad gasket at top, I was able to remove and install the seal on the bench on my 300 six. Dave ---- Would I be drilling the holes entirely through the seal? Wouldn't that end up pushing shavings into the cavity/oil pan? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtymac Posted November 6, 2023 Author Share Posted November 6, 2023 Would I be drilling the holes entirely through the seal? Wouldn't that end up pushing shavings into the cavity/oil pan? Mute point. I found a seal puller and popped it right out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtymac Posted November 9, 2023 Author Share Posted November 9, 2023 I was wondering what the rubber/gasket looking stuff was around the harmonic balancer. I have never noticed that on a balance before. Could you recommend a piston stop tool? I don't currently have one and I can't decide between the whistle style on another one. I'm concerned my accuracy may not be good enough with the whistle. I have another update in the ongoing here-and-there work on the harmonic balancer. After removing the balancer and trying to clean all of the rtv out of the bolt threads, I noticed about half of the first thread has sheered off. I took a bunch of pictures during the removal and installation of the new balancer and determined it flaked off during the removal. I don't know why but it has. Does anyone think this could be an issue? Obviously, there are lots of additional threads left to bolt into. I am including a couple of pictures. I'm also curious about using thread locker on the main bolt. The shop manual mentions the torque amount, 70-90ft/lbs, but nothing about thread locker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArdWrknTrk Posted November 9, 2023 Share Posted November 9, 2023 I have another update in the ongoing here-and-there work on the harmonic balancer. After removing the balancer and trying to clean all of the rtv out of the bolt threads, I noticed about half of the first thread has sheered off. I took a bunch of pictures during the removal and installation of the new balancer and determined it flaked off during the removal. I don't know why but it has. Does anyone think this could be an issue? Obviously, there are lots of additional threads left to bolt into. I am including a couple of pictures. I'm also curious about using thread locker on the main bolt. The shop manual mentions the torque amount, 70-90ft/lbs, but nothing about thread locker. Not sure how the last (first?)half thread could have cracked out unless the bolt threads stretched. Were you using an impact to put it on the last time? An interesting possibility for sealant, halfway between thread locker and RTV, is Loctite PST. I use this anaerobic thread sealant for many things like thermostat and water pump bolts. It comes it a couple of formulas and is indicated for use on stainless flange bolts in petroleum refineries, so it lubricates and protects against galling before it sets. It can certainly handle the fluids and temperatures found in an engine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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