Gary Lewis

Congratulations, Ron! I love it. Them. Both. Too bad you can't show two Broncos at the dealership.

That's cool, Ron! Congrat's on having your Bronco shown. Too bad you can't enter two Broncos.

Bob - Good point. I thought this system was complicated. But if I use the A/C clutch input, which is there but not being used as I have the RPM adder set to 0, then I could effectively have the "fast idle" you mentioned. And the ECU does a marvelous job of keeping the RPM steady, so I could use it to ease up rocky or bumpy trails, going slowly but not as slow as my idle speed of 640 would give. As for consideration, we are in a very different time of life from each other. There are surely a LOT of people asking "Why is that OLD man building that since he won't get to use it very long? But I hope to use it for many years and then hand it off to my son for him to use. Jim - I don't think you were casting dispersions on either BE or Clint. I was the one saying those things, but wanted everyone to know that I'm very impressed with what the software can do. But it would be nice to have a bit more documentation with it. On the alternator, tomorrow I hope to determine how much the existing alternator throws at various RPM, which will at least let me see if there's a good RPM to set for a fast idle. Then, if the Power Bastards folks will provide some info on their alternators maybe I see if a stronger one will help at low RPM. However, their advert says 110+ amps at idle and 220 @ 1200 RPM. But I don't know what they consider "idle", so need to see their specs.

Yes, to implement the Low Voltage approach I appear to need a Rosetta Stone. Something that translates BE to Ford-speak. I've done some of that myself, but it gets to be extremely complex. Sometimes reading Decipha's instructions help as he uses more Ford terms than BE does. Trust me, I'm not taking shots at Clint as I'm in awe of what he's done to create BE - assuming that he did most of it. BE is amazing! And Ford's terminology of "LOWVOL_SL" leaves a lot to be desired. But calling that parameter "Charging System Lowest Voltage to Indicate Bad" with nothing else said in the Comment field doesn't quite get it either. If he'd at least put "This is Ford's LOWVOL_SL and it is used to trigger the Low Voltage Idle Adder function" in the comments then I could eventually work my way through it. Anyway, I think what I'm looking for is what you think the best approach is. I don't need to make a decision today, but wanted to get the discussion going. Which approach is best, and is the difference enough to warrant implementing it?

Ok guys, I need your input. It looks like there are two ways the idle can be increased: A/C Clutch Input: I could do as Clint suggested and wire it such that whenever the winch or the air compressor is switched on the RPM would go up by however many R's I tell it. I could come off the power to the winch so any time it runs the clutch input would see it. And I'd come off of the air compressor switch, which enables the compressor to come on if the pressure is low. While this would give a step in the idle RPM, that's exactly what PTO was going to do. So I'd just have to be careful not to switch the air compressor on when crawling, but I wouldn't normally do that. However, if I wanted to idle faster I could switch it on and not hurt anything. Low Voltage: I really like this approach and it won't take any extra wiring. Plus it is automagic - if either the winch or air compressor come on, which will certainly bring the voltage down, the idle RPM will go up, and smoothly if I set it that way in the table. But so far I haven't figured out how to make it work fully. And apparently no one has done this as neither Decipha or Clint can tell me how to do it. And mapping through the info above is REALLY difficult because it uses terms for parameters and tables that BE doesn't use. I thought I'd get input from y'all. So, please lay it on me. Bob - I'm tagging you because you've mentioned in the past having a hand throttle to speed things up a bit and especially want your thoughts on this.

Ok, thanks for the explanation what a Cozy is. Now, it looks like we are fairly well in agreement that we need a way to share tools and "printing" files. (We can share both 3D printing and cutting files, like for gaskets.) But where should the folders go? And, what caveats should we put in place? IOW, do you agree with my suggestion that someone must have X posts and Y time on the forum before being able to borrow tools? If so, what are the values for X and Y?

Ok guys, I think I have enough info to edit the page. But it is such a dog's breakfast that I don't know where to start. As for Powermaster, I don't even like to admit I have one of their starters on Big Blue. But at least with a starter you can install a no-name replacement from the parts store with no re-wiring. Try that with their alternator.

Lokar is good stuff, so I think you'll be happy. And it is best to get it right rather than to hurry and have to redo it later.

Thanks. But do both body sizes have both mounting distances? Not sure it matters but I'm just curious. And it might help me think through how to explain all of this. Looking at the 3G page I see that a lot of cleanup and clarification is needed. So this won't be an easy thing to do. But, our 3G page is one of the highest-rated pages on the internet for the 3G conversion, and it is one of our most-visited pages. So it deserves to be done well.

Thanks for the clarification, again, Jim. For some reason I can't seem to remember that. So perhaps I need to record it for my, if not posterity's, sake. Looking at our page on 3G conversions (Documentation/Electrical/3G Conversions) we don't really say what fits what. So let me try this on you: 7": This smaller ear/ear spacing fits the Windsors with top-mount alternators and the trucks that have been converted to serpentine/polygroove belts. 8 1/4": The larger spacing fits the other Bullnose trucks, although the thickness of the ear will probably cause the arm to have to be straightened slightly. If this is correct then I need to redo the 3G page(s) to incorporate this info.

Do you have a high performance engine that revs well beyond the factory specs, or a basically stock 300 six? Remember that you have a system - the module sinks the current needed to charge the coil. So if you replace the coil with one that has lower impedance then the module has to sink more current. And it gets hotter. Is that enough to cause it to fail? You won’t know until it fails or the end of time.

Are the throttle and speed control cables are working? Or does the throttle cable have a lot of movement before it starts moving the throttle? And does it get the throttle fully open? In my experience an aftermarket manifold moves the carb such that the OEM bracket is in the wrong place and you have slack in the throttle cable. In that case you'll need to fabricate a new bracket, which I've done by sawing the old bracket in two and placing a spacer between the two parts. But does that bracket also hold the TV cable? Or is that a completely separate issue?

That one is "embedded", and to do so you have to tick the "Message is in HTML Format" box. But when you do that hitting Enter doesn't get you a line feed, so you have to click Formatting then Linefeed.

In my case it took a lot of pushing in and pulling out, and the pulling out had to be done rapidly to get the momentum. It acted like the grease had set up and was preventing it from coming off.

Ok, I'll bite: what is a Cozy? (Other than a cover for a tea pot in the UK.)

In my experience coils are binary - they work or they don't. But in your case it appears the spark was arcing inside the coil when the cylinder pressure came up enough to make jumping in the coil easier than jumping across the plug's gap. In that case you could back off the throttle and keep driving. But if the MSD fails I'll bet it FAILS. So it might be wise to have a spare. However, coils are pretty common so you should be able to get one at any parts store - if you can get to one.

Can you get a small wrench on the zerk and take it out? Probably not, in which case you need to pull straight back on the connector. For some reason they don't like to let go if there's any angle on them. As a last resort you can probably break the zerk off by hitting the connector with a hammer and then replace both the zerk and the connector. On the tire/speedo thing, you can replace the speedometer's driven gear to dial the speedo in. You can read up on that on the page at Documentation/Driveline/SPEEDOMETER GEARS, CABLES, & SENSORS. And on replacing hoses and coolant, the first step is to drain the coolant. That is typically done via a petcock on the radiator. But that won't get all of it, so when you pull the lower radiator hose be prepared to have more coolant come out. When replacing the hoses I like to put the clamp where it is just forward of the bulge/ring on the radiator's fitting. That is so the hose is pressed into the bulge/ring and a good seal is created. I'm not saying put the clamp on/over the bulge/ring, but just forward of it. Then as you refill you'll think you have it full, only to find that minutes later it isn't. The best way to ensure it is as full as you can get it is to pull a heater hose off the heater's fitting as that is the highest point in the system and you just fill it until some comes out there. However if you aren't replacing the heater hoses, and I think you should if you don't know how old they are, then I wouldn't pull the hose off as you are surely going to have a hard time getting it off and may ruin the existing hose. So if you aren't taking the highest connection loose you'll have some air in the system. After you start the engine the level in the radiator will go down, so you can fill it up as much as you can there. But in a bit things start expanding as they heat and you'll have coolant coming out of the radiator if you don't put the cap on. Do so and warm the engine up and then let it cool down completely, like over night. Then check again and add until it is full. Top up the coolant recovery reservoir to about 1/4 full and then drive the truck. Over the next few days you may find it a bit low as you are getting rid of the last of the air, but keep bringing the reservoir up to a certain point and soon it'll be full.

Excellent! Not only looks better but runs better. So the faceplant problem was apparently the coil. But the reviews say the MSD coil can be a problem. Do they say if the coil went bad for them or if the coil took the TFI module out? I'm just wondering about having a spare under the seat, but don't know which thing to have a spare for. EDIT: Happy Birthday! Hope you have a fun trip.

Well, I did hear from Karla at DB today and was very disappointed, as outlined in the thread entitled Concerning Conversation With DB Electrical. And, in that thread Bill gave me a link to Power Bastards, so I sent a note to them. Meanwhile back at the ranch, I emailed Core Tuning as Decipha said in his forum that BE can't handle the task of adding RPM to the idle for low voltage, but TunerPro can. After a back and forth I found that Decipha was saying that you'd have to write custom code, which BE has no provision for but TunerPro has. But Clint came back and said I should be able to do what I am wanting to do with the idle RPM based on voltage. (He first said to use the A/C clutch input, but I pointed out that doing so would cause a quick rise in the idle RPM and I want to avoid that. But in reality that would do what we thought PTO would do, so maybe it is worth considering. So if I can't get the low voltage bit to work I can fall back on this.) Clint confirmed that my assumption that the "Low Voltage Idle Air Adder" table is taken into account when the voltage goes below the "Charging System Lowest Voltage to Indicate Bad" parameter, and is supposed to be disregarded when the "Charging System Lowest Voltage to Indicate Good" parameter is exceeded. And he showed me the info shown below, which I've found in the CDAN2 documentation as well. So I'm going to be trying to figure out why it doesn't work, or at least doesn't work the way I think it should. And the first thing I'm going to look for is LOWVOL_FLG and see if it is staying set when the voltage goes above "Good".

Looks like my eyes are way too old for this game.

Congrats!I prefer this one. Congrat's!!!

Bill - That might be a great find, thanks! But I say "might be" as I thought it was the 3.0L engine that had the right alternator for us. No? Anyway, while this thread is about my discussions with DB I did follow up with Power Bastards by sending this email since they didn't answer the phone:

Thanks for the input, John. But I'm not sure it was the young lady I was talking with that was the issue. I think it was the technicians she was talking to who didn't want to be bothered. But in either event it doesn't speak well for the company. As for getting one with a guarantee, like from AZ, I'm not sure they carry the high amperage units. But if I change it'll be for one of those - assuming they kick out more current at idle than the one I have. And that's where this whole exercise started.

In the past we've touted DB Electrical as a good place from which to get alternators. In fact, there's a link on the 3G Upgrade page to their website. But I'm rethinking suggesting that people buy from DB as I'm really disappointed in recent communications I've had with them. I've mentioned in Big Blue's Transformation thread that I've been in contact with DB Electrical regarding the output of their alternators. I've been talking both on the phone as well as via email with a customer service representative there, and basically DB is claiming it doesn't have the data that shows how much current each alternator puts out at a given RPM. I'm blown away that they are saying that. On the one hand, if that is true then what kind of a company builds alternators but doesn't test them???? On the other hand, if they do have the info then why would they lie and say they don't? I'm sure they have it as I've included at the bottom of this post the documentation that Jim got with the alternator that he bought from them. What I'm trying to find out is how much current their various alternators for a 1994-99 3.0L Taurus/Sable put out since that alternator is what fits our trucks with a 460. DB sell four alternators for that application (110A @ $104; 160A @ $235; 200A @ $259; 220A @ $302), and I just want to compare their output curves to see if it is worth it to spend the extra bucks for a high-output unit. Maybe they just put out more at the top of the curve and yet put out the same at idle? If so, why would I spend three times as much and get the same results? This seems to me to be a very reasonable request when thinking of dropping over $300, but to be told they don't have the info questions the credibility of the company. But to make sure I'm not misrepresenting them here's the response I got back after sending them the chart shown below: Am I being unreasonable? Do I need to pull the link to their website in the 3G section? I don't want to be recommending dodgy vendors and I know that John/Machspeed had problems with his unit, as he stated this here: "Scott, I'd skip on the DB alternator. Mine did not last long at all before it went south. Shortly after I ordered mine off Amazon, I came across several reviews stating that a once good product had gone south. I think Jim may have gotten his when things were good. I replaced that DB alternator with an AutoZone unit with a lifetime warranty on it." Thoughts, please?

I looked everywhere for them, some places claimed to have them in stock, but when I placed the order, their stock disappeared. I wasted several weeks on those cycles. As I recall, those prices were all around $50-$75 apiece. Finally I found a pair on eBay for $200. They are very hard to find, but they are out there if you keep looking. Like Gary, I struggled for a week to get the spindles off. I made a slide hammer tool, my spindles just laughed at that. Finally built a real tool and got them to pay attention. It's now available for passing around as needed, should anybody be fighting the battle Gary and I did. Nice looking tool, Pete. And a generous offer to loan it. Sure would have saved me a lot of work. I've just posted a new thread about loaning tools and posting files to print here, so please let me know in that thread what you think.