Rembrant's new non-Bullnose project

ArdWrknTrk wrote

I don't think you'll have any problem driving a 95A alternator with a polygroove  belt Cory.  

If the 93 1/2" (2.375m) belt fits I would say "less parts is less to go wrong!".

And it would really clean up the visible part of the engine if you were able to lose the idler....

Progress is GOOD!       😉

Jim, agreed on all counts. This is the stock alternator for this engine, so it should be fine...now even more so with more belt wrapped around the pulley.

I was really trying to minimize the extras on this engine...I have very little room to work with under the hood of this truck. A cleaner and tighter serpentine belt was preferred, but also needed.

. That looks like it's going to work great Cory!

You have a pretty unique truck, and always have an interesting approach to resto-mods.
Thanks for keeping us updated.  

That looks great!  Clean even.  

Thanks Jim!

I like the serpentine drive, but it sure is big and bulky compared to the basic v-belt system it replaced. It's a massive chunk hanging on the front of the little 5.0 V8. This truck had factory AC, but I just have an AC delete pulley kit on there for now (and maybe forever lol). I have the stock AC compressor and lines, but my plan is to take the original aluminum block that attaches to the back of the pump, and have it machined so that it will accept AN fittings. That way I can use the Ford factory pump with an aftermarket AC system (or at least that is my long term plan).



I had the local hydraulic shop make me a -6AN Metric fitting for my C2 power steering pump. The basically took a standard M16 fitting and he machined a groove to fit a nylon seal washer, same as the factory fitting had.



The Ford CII pump is going to be running a power steering box from an old Toyota 4x4 with the solid front axle (1979-1985). I'm working on finishing this install this weekend. I'm having the original steering shaft machined to fit a Borgeson double u-joint that is 3/4" DD on the input side, and 17mm splined on the drive side.



I'm not splittin' any atoms here or anything...this is all stuff car builders have been as long as I've been alive. The only reason I mention it all is that I'm working towards getting the 5.0 and AOD-E/W fitted into the truck, but I have to finish the Toyota steering box swap and serpentine system installation before I can place the engine. I don't have a ton of space to work with, so everything has to fit just so.

One thing I'm still not 100% on, and would appreciate your thoughts on, is driveshaft side to side angle. I'm installing an Ford 8.8 diff out of a 2001 Ford Explorer. It's fine, but the pinion is offset 2" to the passenger side. This is perfectly fine in a truck like a Bullnose as the engine is also offset 2" to the passenger side, ensuring the driveline is all straight back. I know there are several reasons for why they do this, but the fact remains that the driveline is straight. I'm still not sure yet whether I'm going to center my engine, or offset it once inch, or maybe even 2" if I have enough room. I'm fully aware of setting the transmission (down) and differential (up) pinion angles, but can you add a sideways offset to that, by 1" or 2"? I've read where some people say it doesn't matter, and that their truck works just fine that way. That's all well and good...but I know a lot of guys that drive around with vibrations in their vehicles that they don't even notice...lol.

If the U- joint angles aren't the same (complimentary) the drive shaft will be trying to go at different speeds at each end, at some point in it's rotation.
I suppose many people don't believe this (or get away with it for a while) but it's a mechanical fact.
If the angle is the same on both ends and the drive line is phased correctly you should be ok.
Otherwise consider a double cardan output like you would find in a Bronco.

ArdWrknTrk wrote

If the U- joint angles aren't the same (complimentary) the drive shaft will be trying to go at different speeds at each end, at some point in it's rotation.
I suppose many people don't believe this (or get away with it for a while) but it's a mechanical fact.
If the angle is the same on both ends and the drive line is phased correctly you should be ok.
Otherwise consider a double cardan output like you would find in a Bronco.

Well I guess I will do some measuring this weekend and see what I can get away with, because I know one thing for sure, I don't want to have to change this after the fact. I'm just not sure if I can move the engine over the full 2" or not.

Still, if the trans output and rear diff input are offset, but still parallel, it should be fine?

I know you are asking Jim, but I concur.  Up/sideways doesn't matter.  You need the same angle at each end w/a single cardon joint.  So if the tranny points straight back and the pinion shaft points straight forward you should be fine.

Rembrant wrote

....  Still, if the trans output and rear diff input are offset, but still parallel, it should be fine?

Yes.  I suppose if the total effective offset is too much the angles could be too high which could lead to issues (probably more with binding or breaking than vibration).  But as long as the trans output and diff input are parallel (or the diff pointing a bit down since it will tip up under power) you shouldn't have vibration problems.

(edit: Oops, cross-posted with Gary.  At least we agreed!)

If the angles are the same at each end it is good.
You have problems when one end of the shaft is straight (or nearly so) and the other end is trying to force the universal at an angle.

I'm no drive line wizard, but I understand the problem.
Whoever makes up the shaft for you should be able to explain it better than I can.

the last thing you need is a slip yoke reciprocating like a sawzall. another dynamic would be where the side to side angle is different than the up down angle. when the trans/ slip yoke is say at three degrees downward angle and the pinion is also. the relative angle to the shaft is important. under acceleration the pinion angle will rotate upwards and change the relative angle and do this under stress load. it is much more of a change at the rear than at the front. if heavy cargo is involved it "could' be more change at the front.
 when setting this up, consider the expected cargo along with suspension type so that when under acceleration the pinion will rotate into position rather than through it or from it adding a sideways offset only compounds the issue.
long winded I know, but a 50 model was never expected to be refined as you are doing. and it maybe perfect at canceling eccentricities up to a given speed or it may make every mirror look fuzzy at 45.  

A couple of items (I finally got a chance to read through this). First, beautiful work on the whole project. I also know how these things take on a life of their own.

Your steering solution is pretty neat. I had a 1958 F100 (my first truck) and I wanted to do some updates and had looked at the 1978 F250 4WD our BSA camp had. It had the steering box up front with the drag link going back to the left "spindle". These used a Saginaw (GM) steering box with the pitman shaft vertical and the arm extending under the frame to connect with the drag link. The steering shaft had a U-joint at the "turn" from horizontal to the steering column and I was playing with what I would need.

My engine change was from a 223 six to a 1957 Thunderbird Special 312 with a Borg-Warner T85 and electric OD unit. Biggest difference from your truck to mine, front and rear axles changed design in 1957 to different king pins and a 9" Ford in the rear. On these, an E-series axle fits nicely.

Power brakes were an option and it was a Kelsey-Hayes in-line unit underhood that was shared with among other vehicles with the early T-birds. Truck was 12 volt with the battery on the right side of the firewall (right in the way of the Y-block distributor).

Only reason it went away, neighbor gave us a slide-in camper that needed an 8' bed, truck was a 6' bed. That was when I bought the 1977 F150.

I will be eagerly awaiting the final results on yours.

Nice! Great job!

85lebaront2 wrote

A couple of items (I finally got a chance to read through this). First, beautiful work on the whole project. I also know how these things take on a life of their own.

Your steering solution is pretty neat!

I can't take much credit for the beauty of the truck. All I've done is rip the drivetrain out of it lol. It's an older restoration, from about 20 years ago or more, but it's in really nice condition. A bunch of panels have been replaced, and all the fenders and running boards are fiberglass. A brief handwritten history of the truck came with it. Previous owner made a lot of calls trying to get the full story on it. A lot can happen to a vehicle in 70 years.

The truck was sold new here in NS, about 60-70 miles away from me. It lived and worked on a farm for the first 20 or so years, and was then left in the field in the late 60's or early 70's. Some guys dragged it out of the field in the early 1980's, but it wouldn't run and needed a lot of work. It then sat unattended in a barn until the early 1990's. The restoration started sometime in the early to mid 90's and was partially finished in the late 90's. It changed owners a couple times over the last 20 years, but the guy I bought it from had it for 7-8 years, and only really took it to shows a couple times a year. It hadn't been out of the garage in two years when I bought it.

As charming an nostalgic as the manual steering and manual brakes were, they were not for me. I got my driver's license in 1988, so those things were long gone by that time. Going down the road they're fine, but parking and maneuvering tight spaces were another story. Not a big deal really, but I worry enough as it is about hitting something (or somebody) at one of the local car shows or weekly cruise-ins with cars and people all over the place.

I've been working at getting the Toyota power steering swap done so that I can place the 302/5.0 in the frame and move on to other things. Once the engine and trans are all bolted in, things will start to move along a little better. I just ordered a Quick4 controller for the AODE/W trans, and I still need to order lots of other things as time and money allow.

I'm going to do some measuring and test fitting tomorrow. I have to cut the new crossmember to even get it in the frame, but once I have it loosely fitted, I can then figure out how far back I can put it.

The engine (5.0 V8) and Trans (AODE/W) came out of two different 1996 F150's. Going with a full 80's Duraspark ignition, '96 3G alternator, and a 500CFM 4bbl for this year...maybe EFI next year. We'll see. I'll be lucky enough to get it on the road this year without thinking of spending a couple extra grand on an EFI system. It sure is great that Gary lets us hang out on here even after our Bullnoses are gone (or, maybe better said...while we're between Bullnoses...lol). The drivetrain in this truck will be what a lot of people stuff into Bullnoses as upgrades, so I still have some stuff in common.

Glad she's yours Cory!
It's a shame to let a pretty vehicle dry rot in a garage..

When you are done it’ll drive as good as it looks, which is great.

I ran into a bit of a snag last night. Funny, you plan for one type of error, and a different error shows up lol. These are not my pictures below, but they're exactly what I did to mount my steering box. I had the bracket all tacked together perfectly. Everything fit swell. So last night I welded it all up solid, and I even welded a temporary bridge across the top opening so that the two ends would now bow out or in while I was welding them. That little bridge worked perfectly, so I was pleased with that. What DID happen though, is that my bottom horizontal mounting plate bent like a banana on me, so now it's high in the center. I'm going to shave a little off the middle of it, and some off the bottom of the box itself in hopes I can get it sitting flat. Worst case scenario I guess I could shim the ends if I had to. What a bugger.

Bummer!  No chance to put it in a press to straighten it?

If you were doing it over again could you bolt the tacked pieces to the box and then do the welding?

Gary Lewis wrote

Bummer!  No chance to put it in a press to straighten it?

If you were doing it over again could you bolt the tacked pieces to the box and then do the welding?

That is what I should have done...hindsight is 20/20 eh Gary?

Press...that's a good idea. Maybe I'll bring it to work tomorrow and put some pressure on it to see if it will flatten out. It's only 3/8" x 2" wide flat bar. It will bend.

I haven't posted any updates on my non-Bullnose project lately (thanks for letting me still hang out here Gary!), and I must admit progress has been painfully slow. It's funny, sort of, but it all comes down to hours. For various reasons I won't bore you with, I used to be able to spend a good 25 hours a week on this stuff. Now I'm lucky to do 10 hours. It sure changes timelines and deadlines drastically...lol.

This project has been a major learning experience (and eye opener) for me, and all things considered I don't think I'd do it again lol. It's easy to understand why you always see unfinished projects for sale.

Anyway...

I bought this engine and transmission crossmember kit that comes with mounts and everything for small block Ford and AOD transmission. While the kit is specific to the engine and trans, it's not really specific to the vehicle, so it takes some custom fitting. It's just bent pipe(s).



The painful part is that you have to do a mock installation of the engine and trans to find the right spot for everything, and if/when it doesn't fit, you have to pull it all out again and re-do things. I've now had the engine and trans in and out of the truck three times, and my enthusiasm was really starting to drift off...lol. At the end of the day, I was trying to "have my cake and eat it too" as they say. I was trying to find the miracle sweet spot for the engine that required the least amount of fab work and cutting, but still leave enough room to use the stock clutch fan, etc. I finally got it to fit yesterday, and it looks like it will be OK. It's going to mean running an electric fan, and I'll have to relocate the battery, but they aren't really deal breakers.




I ended up with the engine and trans offset to the passenger side by about 1.75" to leave enough room to clear the Toyota power steering box. I think it's going to be OK.

Covered in dust...and doubtful she'll be on the road this year, but I'm trying!

Cory - You are highly encouraged to hang out here!

As for locating the engine, installing the engine and tranny multiple times would be a pain!  Did you have to dangle them from the engine hoist while you slid around underneath to see where the bent pipes would fit?

But I'm glad you found a place that will work.  Maybe now the enthusiasm for the project will come back?