Noisy Power Steering

Jim:

I went back to Lee and explained that guys on this thread are discussing about their CII replacement pump (I pointed them to our discussion's hyperlink).  Also mentioned your concern about the "1500 Trucks warning text" (THIS PUMP ONLY FOR USE ON 1500 TRUCKS AND CARS. NOT FOR LARGER VEHICLES).

They kindly answered this:
«Mainly, there is no hydroboost return. With stock tires you would be fine, but any larger tire, lift kit or additional weight would be a little much for the pump. Ford should have never spec'd that pump on larger trucks!»

No mention about the "1500 Trucks warning".  But, curiously, if you go back to the link Cory gave us earlier, the text was modified!

I suppose that they realized the error and changed it.  Didn't receive any thanks for pointing out their mistake.


Anyway, this product looks interesting.  Too bad I cannot find any testimonials on YouTube.


AmericanSavage:

You installed a new Lares CII, not a Saginaw, right?  I don't find it on their site.

I see some new Saginaw (Part 13153 Chrome and Part 13154 Black), and a "Universal" Chrome one (Part 13155).

Is it really quieter than a Ford OEM CII?
Do you have a link?

Well, thank you, for pointing out my confusion.  

You have to hand it to Lee that they are so responsive and proactive!  

I'm sure it's a good product, and I can understand their concerns about wide tires. Hydro boost isn't a huge issue.
If you dig way back in Big Blue's thread you can catch the eight page microanalysis about teeing into the return line if your pump doesn't have a separate return....

I will say "Im glad I have a Saginaw and I'd never go back" but obviously it isn't a necessity if you have a C2 that doesn't groan, rattle or leak.

BigBrother-84 wrote

You installed a new Lares CII, not a Saginaw, right?  I don't find it on their site.

I see some new Saginaw (Part 13153 Chrome and Part 13154 Black), and a "Universal" Chrome one (Part 13155).

Is it really quieter than a Ford OEM CII?
Do you have a link?

I drilled down through the applications on their site for an '86 F-350 and came up with a part number 12338
I found this one on Summit:   https://www.summitracing.com/parts/lsc-12338

Listen, I drive F-550 flatbeds with 23,000 gvw that have Saginaw pumps.
There's nothing bad about them in a medium duty truck.

You found it Jim!


So, since I prefer to not MacGyverize the pump bracket/fittings/etc and keep Dummy-Easy, there are 2 choices:
- Brand new Lares CII.  I am wondering if they made some improvements, or if it is simply a "new" CII.
- Lee Franken-CII-Sag, which is costly but really appealing for an easy quiet swap.

Maybe I will finally hear Big Bro's engine instead of his power steering pump?


PS.:  About Saginaw swap, I am trying to keep Big Bro as close to stock as possible, even under the hood.  I know, I'm crazy, but it's a kind of game.  If Sag swap was really "plug and play", I would seriously consider it, even not "stock looking".  But since I'm a lazy mechanic, I am tempted about the Lares (and more the Lee) options.

I noticed the "keep it stock" OCD when you were considering hubcaps.  

The Sag is stock for a van of the same vintage and engine.  
It's absolutely Plug 'n Play.

You just need to use a van's pressure line and bend the loop at the steering box end to  imitate the one in your truck.
(I did this. It's not difficult)

I can't say anything about the Lares pump, other than they make it in house, so it's not Ford...
Could be better, could be the same.
Maybe you could reach out?

ArdWrknTrk wrote

I noticed the "keep it stock" OCD when you were considering hubcaps.  

ArdWrknTrk wrote

Maybe you could reach out?

Yep, I just sent Lares an email to clarify if #12338 is an exact Ford OEM reprod, or if they made some improvements, if so which ones.

Stay tuned!

Jim, just got an answer from Lares:
«Hello JF,
Yes our part # 12338 is a upgraded design which runs quieter than the original OE.»

AmericanSavage, can you detail how is yours, really quieter than Ford OEM?  Are you satisfied, anything to  to reproach?

Well Jeff, that's great news for everyone still running the stock C-II pump.

Maybe Gary can file away that specific part number and contact info for Lares alongside the Saginaw swap info in the 'Bullnose Upgrades' section?

BigBrother-84 wrote

Jim:

AmericanSavage:

You installed a new Lares CII, not a Saginaw, right?  I don't find it on their site.

I see some new Saginaw (Part 13153 Chrome and Part 13154 Black), and a "Universal" Chrome one (Part 13155).

Is it really quieter than a Ford OEM CII?
Do you have a link?

Here it is!

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/lsc-12338/make/ford/model/f-350/year/1980


I am not sure it is a fit for yours, but, I pulled pumps off of Fords and Broncos all the way to 1986 and they all fit—the pulley’s were a little different however.

I finally bit the bullet and tried this (LARES) until I could afford the Sag conversion.  However, if you have normal/standard tires, you should be fine with a C2—but they are inferior to the Sag all the way around.

I’ll have to look at this.

I just put a reman Cardone pump on my truck and it is noisy. I bled it and all the things.

Unfortunately the pump I had (the original C2) had a big leak but was quiet as can be.

ckuske wrote

I’ll have to look at this.

I just put a reman Cardone pump on my truck and it is noisy. I bled it and all the things.

Unfortunately the pump I had (the original C2) had a big leak but was quiet as can be.

From what I understand, they do not change the bearings in these remans—even the FoMoCo remans.  Quality control, especially at Cardone, is awful on top of that!

BigBrother-84 wrote

81-F150-Explorer wrote

Does your truck have a Power Steering cooler?

Nope.  But this can be an option I can consider.
Thanks for the info!

Jeff you can get the cooler loop with return line from JBG for $35 (U.S.)

Thanks Jim.

If anybody has a pict of an installed one, I'm curious to see where it goes on the crossmember.

Simply looking at its shape, not sure I catch.

If it weren't raining this whole weekend here I'd go out and take a pic.  🌧️

It mounts to the front of the entire engine cross member.
You can get an idea from how the hard line comes out the top of the steering box and the hose comes up behind the pump to return to the reservoir.
There is a metal 'P' clip on either side that holds it in the recessed face of the beam.

Gary Lewis wrote

I'm wondering if it wouldn't be money ahead to replace the pump and in the process replace the fluid.  Would hate to replace the fluid and then discover the pump is bad.

I agree Gary.  The more I think about it, the more it points toward a pump replacement.  It is truly noisy.
Don't forget that I am a lazy mechanic.  I really enjoy to fix things... once.


We have this truck in the family for decades, I personally own Big Bro for almost 20 years.
Maybe I'm getting older enough to forget the preceding season pump's sound.  But I prefer to think it is the pump that is getting too old.

BigBrother-84 wrote

Thanks Jim.

If anybody has a pict of an installed one, I'm curious to see where it goes on the crossmember.

Simply looking at its shape, not sure I catch.

I will get a pic for you today.  

There are two screws that hold it to the cross member as well.  

Here’s a pic.  Note the two bolts to hold it in place.  

Ok, now I see.
Thanks!

Geeeee....  Shame on me!

Did I tell you that I am a DUMMY?  Now, you're gonna believe me, for sure.

Erik, thanks for the lesson...  So was I able to, well, discover that Big Brother already has a PS cooler.

(Oh, this nice spring isn't part of the suspension?)


I suppose it would be a good idea to clean it, so the heat exchange could operate more easily:



Now, about the noise.  While inspecting the pump/gearbox (and cooler), I discovered that the system is leaking.  This seems to be recent, since there was oil on ground, where it is usually dry.

Pump looks dry:



Not sure about hoses connexion:



And the under-gear-box is really wet.
Not sure, bure I suspect that the oil leak source is somewhere there:



Where should I start?

Jeff, your arrow is pointing to the input shaft seal.
If it were me I would pull the plastic rag joint shroud back up the shaft and thoroughly clean the area.
Start the engine and observe for where it's coming from.
Maybe have someone else turn the wheels while I watched closely for weeping.