Noisy Power Steering

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Noisy Power Steering

BigBrother-84
Hi Gentlemen,

Yesterday was a warm sunny day, and I was moving my Mom to a new residence.  Big Bro was excited about his first ride of the year.

Don't know if he found the winter too long, but he has his power steering noisier than ever (never used to be really quiet, but now it's crying loudly).

No leak, full of oil.  Seems to operate "normally".

I understand this pump noise isn't normal, but should I wonder about anything specific, is there any preventive action to take before something breaks?

Thanks for your advices!
Jeff / 1984 F350 Crew Cab 4x4/5.8L w351 4V/ T18/ D50 4.10 front/ 8' bed.
Restored 2019-2022.
Nicknamed «Big Brother 1984», due to its soooo-looong shape & nod to George Orwell's 1984 famous novel.
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Re: Noisy Power Steering

Gary Lewis
Administrator
The CII pumps are frequently noisy, but it isn't normal for them to change over the winter.  Is there any chance you just forgot how noisy it is?

And what type of fluid do you have in it?  I think Type F is the normal fill and I've read that other types might quieten it, but haven't tried it.
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: Noisy Power Steering

ArdWrknTrk
Administrator
I replied to another thread early this morning that Ford's recommended fill in the C2 is type-F.
It's the nature of these pumps to growl or whine but a substantial change is not good.
Is the fluid clear red?
Is it milky, like it may have seen condensation over winter or consumed some water through the cap vent hole (word of warning, don't turn the wheel with the engine off unless you want to see how far the C2 can pee all over your engine)
Some people say that a half tube of limited slip additive will quiet these pumps down.
I was fortunate that Bill was able to find me a Saginaw pump and bracket from an E350 at his friend Donnie Medilln's (?) scrap yard back in 2012.
I'm very thankful for for this!
 Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.
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Re: Noisy Power Steering

Gary Lewis
Administrator
Hadn't heard about the LS additive trick.

So, you are thanking Bill for your Saginaw and bracket, and I'm thanking you for mine.  LOVE the Sag.  No whine, no mess if I turn the wheel with the engine off, etc.  Thanks again!
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: Noisy Power Steering

ArdWrknTrk
Administrator
I can't say I've had to resort to the friction modifier, but I was really close before I 'upgraded' to the Sag.
There were more than a few that said it helped, back on FTE.
I would definitely start with a fluid purge. (Run the return into a bucket, remove the belt and drive the pump with a hex in the pump shaft while keeping the reservoir full)
One's got to expect the rotor or disc will eventually wear or warp, but I can't say why unless the fluid gets too low or some debris came from the quadrant.
Saginaw pumps and bracketry are definitely thin on the ground after Cash For Clunkers and the astronomical scrap prices before tariffs on scrap going to China were implemented. (this might not be an issue in Canada)
There were certainly plenty of E-series vans with 351's built back then.
Remember that you need the unit complete from the front of the cylinder head.
The bracket and pulley do not interchange with a C2.
 Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.
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Re: Noisy Power Steering

Gary Lewis
Administrator
I agree that I'd do a complete purge.  Clean fluid might do wonders, and the CII pump is cheap to replace if needed.
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: Noisy Power Steering

ArdWrknTrk
Administrator
You can usually 'rent' the pulley tool from the auto parts store when you get the pump. 💡
 Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.
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Re: Noisy Power Steering

Gary Lewis
Administrator
I'm wondering if it wouldn't be money ahead to replace the pump and in the process replace the fluid.  Would hate to replace the fluid and then discover the pump is bad.
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: Noisy Power Steering

ArdWrknTrk
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Can you buy one new?

'Rebuilt' pumps can be very hit or miss.

Type F is cheap, and if it doesn't help you can pump it into a bucket like I outlined above.
But I'm pragmatic (and 'skint')

Ultimately I want to find the cause rather than being a parts swapper.
 Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.
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Re: Noisy Power Steering

Machspeed
Administrator
And I'll thank both of you (Gary and Jim) for my Saginaw pump! No noise, no leaks and easy turning of the wheel. This is one of the best mods I've done to my truck.  
John

"Blackie" - 1986 F150 4x4 - Mildly warmed over 351W HO - Original owner
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Re: Noisy Power Steering

Rembrant
In reply to this post by ArdWrknTrk
ArdWrknTrk wrote
Can you buy one new?

'Rebuilt' pumps can be very hit or miss.

Type F is cheap, and if it doesn't help you can pump it into a bucket like I outlined above.
But I'm pragmatic (and 'skint')

Ultimately I want to find the cause rather than being a parts swapper.
I've now purchased three reman C2 pumps, and only had one out of the bunch that still made a little bit of noise. It performed fine otherwise. They're cheap, but a bit of a pain to swap the pulley if it's rusted on there. The other two I bought were quiet, including the one on my current 302.

By the way, I primed this new pump and system with a drill before starting the engine up. I don't know if it mattered (or helped) or not, but I figured it was one less thing to worry about while starting up a new engine.

Reminder for anybody that is feeling wealthy (and also has a case of the CII blues...lol), Lee Power Steering makes a CII Ford pump with Saginaw internals. This would be super nice as a drop-in replacement...but it IS expensive by comparison. Maybe not so bad with the increasing rarity of the Ford Saginaw swap parts.

https://leepowersteering.com/collections/power-steering-pumps/products/ford-cii-power-steering-pump-replacement

One thing to note is that the Lee pump has the Metric fitting, so to install it on a Bullnose you would probably have to buy a later (1992-1996?) F-series pressure line (but they're also very cheap, so NBD).


1994 F150 4x2 Flareside. 5.0 w/MAF, 4R70W, stock.
1984 F150 4X2 Flareside. Mild 302 w/ 5spd. Sold.
1980 F150 4X4 Flareside. 300i6 w/ 5spd. Sold in 2021.
1980 F100 4X2 Flareside. 351w/2bbl w/NP435. Sold in 1995

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Re: Noisy Power Steering

ArdWrknTrk
Administrator
I defer to your experience with C2 rebuilds Cory.
The two times I've used Cardone remans they weren't quiet, but better than puking shaft seals.
Though everyone seemed to rave about the adapted Saginaw--> C2 pumps Cardone used to make (and sold for ~$83)....  then

Definitely worthwhile to prime the pump on install since the belt is already off.
I don't know about cycling it lock to lock if the wheels aren't in the air but at least it won't start dry or catch a slug of air right away.  👍

Lee sure are proud of their Saginaw gutted C2!  😳
I also see that it's "only for 1500 series" trucks, so Id imagine not good for my 250 or 350 like Big Brother.

They do have the 11/16 shaft for a C2 pulley instead of the 3/4 found on a Sag.

 Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.
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Re: Noisy Power Steering

BigBrother-84
Guys, that's a lot of information, thanks so much!


If prefer to not go with additives for the moment, will start from the base.

So, my plan will be:

1- Flush the fluid.  It's probably the oldest one in this truck, other ones were recently renewed (brakes and radiator).
2- Verify that cap o-rings are sealed.  Renew if needed.
3- If still very noisy after pouring new ps fluid, will probably look for a pump swap.  Will have to make a decision between a new C2, a Saginaw, or this "Sag-organs-in-a-C2-Body" I wasn't aware of. And thanks to Jim, will need to confirm if this latter can support a F-350 before going that way.

I'll let you know where each step is taking me.
Jeff / 1984 F350 Crew Cab 4x4/5.8L w351 4V/ T18/ D50 4.10 front/ 8' bed.
Restored 2019-2022.
Nicknamed «Big Brother 1984», due to its soooo-looong shape & nod to George Orwell's 1984 famous novel.
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Re: Noisy Power Steering

81-F150-Explorer
The CII can be very noisy when new even.

I can hear that noise a "mile away", and then I start looking for the Old Classic Ford it is attached to.

Fluid can break down over time, so putting new in is a good idea. Also these pumps tend to make more noise when hot. Does your truck have a Power Steering cooler? The PS cooler was an option and it's just basically a longer return hose tube that follows and loops the length of the engine crossmember a couple of times. The non-cooler line for comparison just has a small loop that attaches to the left side of the crossmember.

The non cooler and cooler return lines are interchangeable between the same engine family.  

Truck: 1981 F-150 Explorer / Engine: 300-6 California MCU Feedback System / Trans: T-18 - 4 speed / 2.75 Ford Rear Axle Open Diff.
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Re: Noisy Power Steering

BigBrother-84
81-F150-Explorer wrote
I can hear that noise a "mile away", and then I start looking for the Old Classic Ford it is attached to.

Ralph, you're right!
But I am sure that Big Bro is much noisier than ever this spring.

81-F150-Explorer wrote
Does your truck have a Power Steering cooler?
Nope.  But this can be an option I can consider.
Thanks for the info!
Jeff / 1984 F350 Crew Cab 4x4/5.8L w351 4V/ T18/ D50 4.10 front/ 8' bed.
Restored 2019-2022.
Nicknamed «Big Brother 1984», due to its soooo-looong shape & nod to George Orwell's 1984 famous novel.
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Re: Noisy Power Steering

BigBrother-84
In reply to this post by ArdWrknTrk
ArdWrknTrk wrote
Lee sure are proud of their Saginaw gutted C2!  😳
I also see that it's "only for 1500 series" trucks, so Id imagine not good for my 250 or 350 like Big Brother.
Jim, I was curious so I asked Lee about their pump compatibility with a F-350 4x4 CrewCab 351W.
Here is their answer:
«Our pump should work fine with stock tires and no hydroboost.»
Jeff / 1984 F350 Crew Cab 4x4/5.8L w351 4V/ T18/ D50 4.10 front/ 8' bed.
Restored 2019-2022.
Nicknamed «Big Brother 1984», due to its soooo-looong shape & nod to George Orwell's 1984 famous novel.
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Re: Noisy Power Steering

ArdWrknTrk
Administrator
Well that's good to hear!  

I'm a bit confused what they meant with that bolded statement on the linked page????  
 Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.
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Re: Noisy Power Steering

BigBrother-84
This post was updated on .
In fact, they first replied with the question «stock tires?».

It is after I confirmed, that they concluded with their final answer, including the Hydroboost precision.

The tires size appears to be their main concern.  I suppose that the weight of the truck plus large tires ground friction can be an issue.  Hydroboost comes in second place.
Jeff / 1984 F350 Crew Cab 4x4/5.8L w351 4V/ T18/ D50 4.10 front/ 8' bed.
Restored 2019-2022.
Nicknamed «Big Brother 1984», due to its soooo-looong shape & nod to George Orwell's 1984 famous novel.
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Re: Noisy Power Steering

ArdWrknTrk
Administrator
Wide tires are a huge issue, more so on pavement and when not moving.
But as you expect, wider tires and wheels can only be to the outside of the pivot point drawn through your kingpin or ball joints.

That additional leverage gets multiplied back through the tie rods and pitman arm.

I'm still interested to understand what they mean by 1500 series.  
 Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.
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Re: Noisy Power Steering

AmericanSavage
In reply to this post by BigBrother-84
I went through this on my truck—ended up changing it 3 times.  I thought about converting to a SAG but did not have the ability or time to fab a bracket.  I understand there is a total convert kit somewhere for it.

At first I got a reman Cardone.  I cannot urge enough to stay away.

Anyway, I went with a NEW LARES c2.  It is and has been quiet for months now.  Highly recommend.
1980 Ford XLT F350
400 Engine (rebuilt to 406)
Holley 2300 500 CFM manual Choke Carb
Under Restore (1st time)
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