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My 81 flareside is going electric!

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Pete Whitstone

Re: My 81 flareside is going electric!

Gary Lewis wrote

Did someone use the wrong perches, like from a 300 six?

Uh, yeah. That would be me. I took a week off work to pull the straight six out of there and install the 351w. I had to get the project finished in a week. I assumed that since the truck came with both 6's and 8's, that it would be fairly straightforward. I was wrong, obviously. I was not having a lot of luck searching the internet for pictures of the V8 mounting arrangement, but I assumed the engine perches (as I now know they are called - kind of hard to search for something that you don't know the name of) were basically the same between the I6 and V8. When I dropped the V8 engine down, I found there to be a spacing problem with the I6 perches, there was a large gap on either side if about an inch and a half. So, I knew the perches were different from the 6 to the 8, but didn't know how. I assumed the V8 perches were like the I6 perches, just taller. So I modified them to be taller... the overall effect being that the engine sits a bit higher and a bit more forward than it should. I got a driveshaft of the right length and called it good. I was determined to finish the engine install in a week, and I did.

Later of course, I found out that the V8 engine perches actually sit behind the K-member. I think I also learned that they are riveted to the frame, making them a PITA to remove/replace. And here's where my truck chassis gets weird(er). The VIN decodes as an 81 with a 351W, and that's what I wanted in there. But there are a couple things wrong with the chassis for that. First, there was no sign that V8 engine perches were ever in there. Second, the frame is supposed to be an 81, but there are no swiss cheese holes. So I think I've got an 81 body on a later I6 frame. I haven't tried to find the frame VIN, but I know where to look, thanks to you.

So I got a strange truck, and probably made it stranger. Maybe one day I will hunt down the correct engine perches and put things more stock, but for right now I'm not really worried about it. I don't think I have changed the engine angle enough to worry about driveshaft phasing weirdness, but time will tell.

Don't hate me because I don't know these trucks yet!

Also, you may have guessed by now that I am not a "keep it stock" purist. I see enough talk of engine swaps, etc. on this forum that I don't guess everyone is. I respect those who want to restore a truck to stock, but that's not me at all. I love fabbing stuff up or modifying other stuff to work with a vehicle.

81 F150 Flareside, Edelbrock Pro Flow4 FI, hydraulic roller 351W, E4OD, 4x4, BW1356
92 F150 RCLB 351W E40D BW1356 mostly stock

Gary Lewis

Re: My 81 flareside is going electric!

Administrator

You got it done, and that's what counts. And if you go to stock Windsor perches it'l cause the engine to be farther to the rear and your driveshaft will be too long. I'd stick with what you have.

As for not hating you 'cause you don't know these trucks, I sure didn't about 10 years ago, and still don't know that much. But with the help of the guys on here and others I'm learning.

And stock isn't the goal. How you want it is the goal. Neither of my trucks are close to stock.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

Rusty_S85

Re: My 81 flareside is going electric!

In reply to this post by Pete Whitstone

I think its a good option because in cooler weather like fall or spring you wont ever have the fans come on full blast so you would have a reduction in fan noise.

That is the biggest thing that keeps me from going electric fans is we install quite a few of them on cars/trucks at work and very rarely do I see one that doesnt sound like a blender running with how loud the fans are. Its why if I ever added one I would do a auxiliary condenser fan and wire it into my fan 1 output on my sniper stealth so it will come on every time the AC is switched on.

Only way I would go full electric right now I think is if I could figure out a way to run a multi rib belt while retaining my dealer installed York A/C compressor. I know ive installed some on other vehicles in the past that use multiple multi rib belts but cant find any for our trucks. I also know chevrolet in the 80`s was using traditional V belts for everything but then had a multi ribbed belt just for the alternator. I would even settle for something like that if it didnt move my A/C belt pulley that bolts onto my crank.

"Old Blue" - '56 Fairlane Town Sedan - 292-4V, Ford-O-Matic transmission, 3.22:1
'63 Belair 2dr sdn - 283-4V, Powerglide transmission, 4.56:1
'78 Cougar XR7 - 351-2V, FMX transmission, 2.75:1 9inch
"Bruno" - '82 F150 Flareside - 302-2V, C6 transmission, 2.75:1 9inch, 31x10.50-15 BFG KO2

Pete Whitstone

Re: My 81 flareside is going electric!

In reply to this post by Pete Whitstone

Update on the fans - got everything buttoned up and got the truck running again (installed headers and revised the exhaust system).

The new fans are quiet, I would describe the noise they make as a hum, not even a loud hum. They came off a luxury vehicle so I would expect that they be fairly quiet. So how did they perform? In ambient 80+ degree conditions, I let the truck get up to about 210 as indicated by the coolant sensor in the intake manifold. Then I turned the fans on, and they pulled the temps down to 180 in less than a minute, so they seem pretty efficient.

One thing I will have to revise is that I bought a variable temp fan controller whose range was 180 to 245, thinking that I would not want to try to cool below 180. The problem with that is, at idle there is a big lag between what the engine sees temp-wise and what the radiator sees (the bulb sensor to trigger the fans is in the radiator fins). So to deal with that latency, the radiator fans need to kick on at a lower temp than 180 in order to keep the engine from seeing in the 200's. So I will be replacing the $11 180-245 controller with a $17 160-245 controller, Summit part HDA-3653.

I have to rebuild the front end of the truck before I begin road trials, I have ball joints and tie rod ends with torn boots, so they will not last long. I'll know more about how the fan conversion behaves then and will report back.

Happy Memorial Day, all, and thanks to those that served.

Pete

81 F150 Flareside, Edelbrock Pro Flow4 FI, hydraulic roller 351W, E4OD, 4x4, BW1356
92 F150 RCLB 351W E40D BW1356 mostly stock

ArdWrknTrk

Re: My 81 flareside is going electric!

Administrator

The coolant thermostat is what's really controlling engine temperature.

Put the thermistor (or whatever) in the upper right corner if you want the fans on sooner.

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

Pete Whitstone

Re: My 81 flareside is going electric!

ArdWrknTrk wrote

The coolant thermostat is what's really controlling engine temperature.

Put the thermistor (or whatever) in the upper right corner if you want the fans on sooner.

Yup, that's where it's at.

I think in actual operation (driving) it will be fine, since there won't be that big a difference between the manifold temps and the radiator temps. I think that's a product of the thermostat having to come up to temp before the radiator sees any heat, then the radiator itself is slow to heat up and transfer heat into the sensor. Once everything is up to temp, I think the fans will respond much sooner, with regards to the temps in the intake manifold where the gauge sensor is.

Pete

81 F150 Flareside, Edelbrock Pro Flow4 FI, hydraulic roller 351W, E4OD, 4x4, BW1356
92 F150 RCLB 351W E40D BW1356 mostly stock

Gary Lewis

Re: My 81 flareside is going electric!

Administrator

Yes, I think in actual operation it'll be better. But at least you are watching it closely.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Pete Whitstone

Re: My 81 flareside is going electric!

In reply to this post by Pete Whitstone

Update... The Infiniti FX35 fans were good but they were a little weak in the Texas summer with the AC on. I got tired of having to watch the temp gauge like a hawk. They were also a little slow to bring the temps down when they did kick on. Time for an upgrade. I decided on these fans:

https://www.jegs.com/i/Flex-A-Lite/400/116521/10002/-1

They needed a corner of their shroud trimmed to make them fit around the radiator tubes and transmission lines, but that was pretty easy to take care of. Once that was done, I reinstalled everything and here's what it looks like now.

It comes with an adjustable thermostat as well.

Not much real world experience with them yet, but I have let thhe truck heat up to adjust the thermostat, and when they come on, they drag the temps down very quickly.

Unfortunately they also drag the voltage down pretty quickly too. The voltmeter sits on 12v when they are on, so the alternator is not keeping up. But then it's a 3-decades-old unit from the donor truck, so I guess that's to be expected. I have a 200-amp unit from DB Electrical on the way.

81 F150 Flareside, Edelbrock Pro Flow4 FI, hydraulic roller 351W, E4OD, 4x4, BW1356
92 F150 RCLB 351W E40D BW1356 mostly stock

Gary Lewis

Re: My 81 flareside is going electric!

Administrator

Cool! In several senses of the word!

I'm anxious to see what you think of those fans after a while. And, what you think of that alternator. But what is that alternator in your pic? A bolt-on 3G from a 90's vehicle?

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Pete Whitstone

Re: My 81 flareside is going electric!

My entire drivetrain is from a 95 F150 4x4 donor vehicle. That alternator is what I believe was the original alternator on that truck. All 95 amps of it. Well, probably 65 amps, at this point - it's tired.

81 F150 Flareside, Edelbrock Pro Flow4 FI, hydraulic roller 351W, E4OD, 4x4, BW1356
92 F150 RCLB 351W E40D BW1356 mostly stock

Gary Lewis

Re: My 81 flareside is going electric!

Administrator

Ok, makes sense.

I have a stock 130A 3G on Big Blue, but it doesn't really keep up at idle with inverter when the air compressor is on. So I have considered a 200A upgrade, assuming that it'll give proportionately more at idle than the 130 unit does. Given that I'm interested to see what you find out.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Pete Whitstone

Re: My 81 flareside is going electric!

The info on the alternator I ordered said full output (200 amps) at about 1400rpm, and 100 amps at 650rpm. Unclear whether that was expressed in engine RPM or alternator RPM. They did refer to the 650rpm figure as "idle" so I am assuming engine RPM. It gets here in a week, so it will be a little while before I have more info.

81 F150 Flareside, Edelbrock Pro Flow4 FI, hydraulic roller 351W, E4OD, 4x4, BW1356
92 F150 RCLB 351W E40D BW1356 mostly stock

Gary Lewis

Re: My 81 flareside is going electric!

Administrator

Do you have a link to that alternator? I'd like to see what they say.

Our page at Documentation/Electrical/Alternators has the output results from Jim/Ardwrkntrk's stock 130A 3G alternator from DB. They show output of 106A @ 1600 alternator RPM's, 134A @ 2500, and 160A @ 6000. Not sure what pulley sizes you have, but the specs I see say they may give 3:1 RPM, so that would be 533, 833, & 2000.

So that 100A @ 650 RPM does sound like they mean engine RPM. But I think you have a smaller alternator, which may be the difference, and that's why I'm curious to look at their page.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

81-F150-Explorer

Re: My 81 flareside is going electric!

I'd be interested in it too.

My 60 amp alternator cannot keep up with my 12-watt sideband radio without flickering.

I want to exchange it with a 50-watt GMRS, but if the alternator cannot keep up with the CB etc...

Truck: 1981 F-150 Explorer / Engine: 300-6 California MCU Feedback System / Trans: T-18 - 4 speed / 2.75 Ford Rear Axle Open Diff.

Gary Lewis

Re: My 81 flareside is going electric!

Administrator

Is that at idle or full-tilt, Ralph? The 130A 3G puts out far more at idle than your 1G can ever hope to do. So you wouldn't have to go for the 200A unit. Even the 90A 3G would be a serious upgrade.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Pete Whitstone

Re: My 81 flareside is going electric!

In reply to this post by Gary Lewis

Gary Lewis wrote

Do you have a link to that alternator? I'd like to see what they say.

I bought it from Amazon, not directly from DB. But here is the link to it.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B008R2ULUW?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details

Rereading it, I misspoke earlier. The RPMs are stated as 1200 and 600.

81 F150 Flareside, Edelbrock Pro Flow4 FI, hydraulic roller 351W, E4OD, 4x4, BW1356
92 F150 RCLB 351W E40D BW1356 mostly stock

81-F150-Explorer

Re: My 81 flareside is going electric!

In reply to this post by Gary Lewis

That's about 1200-1800 rpm engine speed.

So cruising speed.

Truck: 1981 F-150 Explorer / Engine: 300-6 California MCU Feedback System / Trans: T-18 - 4 speed / 2.75 Ford Rear Axle Open Diff.

Pete Whitstone

Re: My 81 flareside is going electric!

In reply to this post by Gary Lewis

Gary Lewis wrote

Is that at idle or full-tilt, Ralph? The 130A 3G puts out far more at idle than your 1G can ever hope to do. So you wouldn't have to go for the 200A unit. Even the 90A 3G would be a serious upgrade.

I also saw a lot of 95amp and 130amp units for a lot cheaper. I decided to go with the 200amp because I have the electric fans and a stereo amp. Mine is also an AC truck. So between what the compressor clutch pulls, and the fans and radio... and it's night so the high beams are on... and it's raining so the wipers are on... and the defrost has both the compressor and the fans on... it adds up and I wasn't sure 130amp was going to cover the worst case scenario.

81 F150 Flareside, Edelbrock Pro Flow4 FI, hydraulic roller 351W, E4OD, 4x4, BW1356
92 F150 RCLB 351W E40D BW1356 mostly stock

Gary Lewis

Re: My 81 flareside is going electric!

Administrator

Amazon says "Under full load conditions, amperage output at 1200 engine rpm will peak at 200 Amps, amperage output at 600 engine rpm (idle) will peak at 100 Amps". And, as you can see below, that is the small-framed "95A" unit.

So extrapolating to the 130A unit, which may not be fair, I'm seeing something like 275 for the max and 138A at idle.

Think I'll look at what they offer...

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Pete Whitstone

Re: My 81 flareside is going electric!

Well, so far so good. It seems to put out a little less volts than my old alternator, the voltmeter hovers around 13 with the new one. With the old one, it was a little over 13. I imagine that is a function of the regulator.

I haven't driven the truck a whole lot, but with the fans on and headlights and wipers, and AC, it won't drag it down much on the voltmeter. The old alternator would drop to about 11v.

Part of the new alternators output capabilities come from this, no doubt:

When I saw that, I had to wonder if the belt was going to be short enough. It is, but there's a lot less room on the tensioner than there previously was. I will have to watch for belt slip as the belt ages and stretches.

81 F150 Flareside, Edelbrock Pro Flow4 FI, hydraulic roller 351W, E4OD, 4x4, BW1356
92 F150 RCLB 351W E40D BW1356 mostly stock

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