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It won't stop...I'm helpless!

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85lebaront2

Re: It won't stop...I'm helpless!

Administrator

If you remove the spark plugs it will turn a lot faster.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

"Getting old is inevitable, growing up is optional" Darth Vader 1986 F350 460 converted to MAF/SEFI, E4OD 12X3 1/2 rear brakes, traction loc 3:55 gear, 160 amp 3G alternator Wife's 2011 Flex Limited Daily Driver 2009 Flex Limited with factory tow package Project car 1986 Chrysler LeBaron convertible 2.2L Turbo II, modified A413

Gary Lewis

Re: It won't stop...I'm helpless!

Administrator

What about cranking it to TDC on each cylinder and seeing if either pushrod is loose? If the lifter is bad would there be enough clearance to give slack?

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

ReneH

Re: It won't stop...I'm helpless!

Ok, I've cranked it without ignition, spark plugs and also with removed fuel impact switch...nothing suspicious to hear...no ticking to hear. But the starter motor is very loud...I don't know if I would hear the lifters at such a low rpm and loud starter motor.

I'm not really sure if I understand what you mean, Gary. To see this, I have to remove a least the plenum and both valve covers.

This will maybe an option. But I'm not sure about the best strategy...I will let rework the headers and reduce the port size nearly to the size of the outlets in my heads. If I get them back, they are relatively fast installed and I can start the engine and hear.
If the ticking is still there, I have to contact summit and check my options to get a new cam and lifters again.

Maybe here is patience the best strategy. In the meanwhile I can work on the window seals or my radio...

Next holidays are in August...so I have a bit more time, this time...

What do you think.

René's Profile

Bronco 1986 Ford Bronco XLT 302/347 stroker with 351W EEC-IV and 351W factory cam C6 gearbox. Jeep 1986 Jeep CJ7 256 I6 with T5 gearbox. Buggy 1972 HAZ Buggy 122 Ford Cologne V6
Baron 1994 Chrysler LeBaron convertible 183 V6 4-speed automatic

ReneH

Re: It won't stop...I'm helpless!

In reply to this post by 85lebaront2

By the way...I have found carbon on some header screws on the driver's side...

Maybe it gets worse after installing the two db-killer into the Y-pipe, cause there is more back-pressure, now...

Gary Lewis

Re: It won't stop...I'm helpless!

Administrator

That carbon looks like a smoking gun. I think you have a leak.

But what I was asking was if bringing each cylinder up on its top dead center, when both valves will be close, might you be able to detect a ground down lifter/lobe by the rocker arm or push rod being loose. You shouldn't have to do more than pull the valve covers.

But I was asking if others thought this might work.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

ArdWrknTrk

Re: It won't stop...I'm helpless!

Administrator

In reply to this post by ReneH

You need thicker washers if the holes in the header flange are that big.

Gary, crazy lash at TDC should show if the lobe and lifter are wiped but I have no idea what the deck height and pushrod length are.

Not to doubt Rene, I'm thinking there has to be a geometry problem if this is round #2.
Is the installed spring height correct for that valve train package?

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

ReneH

Re: It won't stop...I'm helpless!

I use the original 302 heads, springs, rocker arms, pushrods and valves.

The only things that are not original 302 are:
347 Stroker kit (crankshaft, pistons and rods)
351W camshaft

I haven't checked the tension of the springs (how should I...

)
But no cracks and all shows up normal. And also if the tension of some may not 100%, I can't imagine, that thus could kill a lifter and a cam...

If there is a problem of geometry, maybe the lifter guides in the block...I haven't measured their roundness...but also that I can't imagine...the lifters fits good and slides and turns after installing them and carefully turn the cam.

ArdWrknTrk

Re: It won't stop...I'm helpless!

Administrator

Some performance parts don't play well with stock parts.
When buying a cam there's always a need to check rocker geometry, pushrod length, valve seat pressure at recommended installed height, coil bind, spring pressure at full lift, etc...

Stock heads and valves certainly isn't getting the most out of a stroker (even if it is less stroke than a 351)

I'll have to look back and see if I can find which cam you've chosen.

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

ReneH

Re: It won't stop...I'm helpless!

351W stock cam

I have read much about the interchangeability of the 302 and the 351W camshafts without changing other parts. The most change the cam cause of the firing order...that's what I've read in different forums...

ArdWrknTrk

Re: It won't stop...I'm helpless!

Administrator

Yes, the earlier 302's had a different firing order than 351/H.O. 5.0's

The cam seems mild enough. What made you decide to put a stroker crank? More compression?

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

ReneH

Re: It won't stop...I'm helpless!

No...it was an economic decision.

As I've seen that the engine in the bronco I've bought had two bend connection rods and I've checked the cylinders and found one bigger and one smaller piston tipper, I've checked the prices for stock oversize pistons, stock crankshaft, bearings and connection rods. All available parts together were much more expensive than the stroker kit...so the engine gets stroked.
.

But by now, I'm happy with it. I only drove some miles, but the power is very good.
Ok, I don't have a comparison, cause I thought the power is good, as I've bought it and doesn't know, that I'm driving with a V6, cause two cylinders had not much compression...

85lebaront2

Re: It won't stop...I'm helpless!

Administrator

In reply to this post by ArdWrknTrk

Jim, there are real problems lately with cam and lifter failures, particularly on flat tappet cams. However, even roller lifters are having issues. Say what they will, when I see rollers spalling after only a short operating time, my immediate reaction, based on experience from work, is poor metal and or heat treatment. Does the term Chinesium for the alloy give you a hint?

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

ReneH

Re: It won't stop...I'm helpless!

I think the biggest problem is, that today you are not able to know what you really buy in most of the time.

Some decades ago, you know, if you buy parts from a well known brand, you'll get quality. If you buy cheap parts, they are as good as the price you pay.

Today, that's my opinion, you buy from a brand and they do everything to raise their profits over the top. So often you'll get poor quality for a high price.

I've let produce a custom full-aluminium radiator for my 1972 Buggy directly in China from the same company I've bought the one for my CJ7. Very good quality. Superior weld seams. Everything exactly like in my drawing. All for about 200 USD including shipping.

I also have bought parts from Crown for my CJ7...unbelievable bad quality. Parts rust within some weeks. I have teard off a 1/2" screw with a 1/2" ratchet by hand without much force...so, that's something I thought it's impossible...

So globalization brings much benefits but also much problems. Same with the food industry. The most people don't know what they eat. And if there is a new law, big companies always find ways to ship around. Profit weight even more than honesty and trust. That's what I can't understand. That's not sustainable.

I hope this is not too political. If it is, I will delete this post...

Gary Lewis

Re: It won't stop...I'm helpless!

Administrator

No, it isn't too political. It is just truth. Many of the parts we are getting are of very poor quality. But sometimes we get really good ones. It is just hard to tell.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

ArdWrknTrk

Re: It won't stop...I'm helpless!

Administrator

The Chinese can definitely make quality products. One glance at their aviation industry or space station will show that.
The problem is with IP and that many purchasers want the product made to a price, QA be damned.

Without diving into politics we have discussed the downfall of many iconic automotive suppliers as they get swallowed up by specialized investment groups.
There's hardly a brand left that isn't victim of M&A and driven to squeeze more blood from the stone.

With that said there are still a few passionate individuals creating quality parts for motorsports.
But they are not in every storefront, nor are the products inexpensive.
Tim Meyer and John Kasse come to mind.

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

ReneH

Re: It won't stop...I'm helpless!

In reply to this post by Gary Lewis

Ok, The new header screws and better gaskets will arrive next Tuesday. I will work on other things until the parts arrive.

Also when I'm restless about waiting for it, cause I still don't know if this caused the noise, I've heard...

ReneH

Re: It won't stop...I'm helpless!

So, here are my re-worked headers:

Thus should be enough space for the gasket...

We'll see next week. I hope the noise really came from the headers...

Gary Lewis

Re: It won't stop...I'm helpless!

Administrator

Yes, that should be enough space for the gasket. And seeing the carbon on the bolts from last time I really think the noise was an exhaust leak.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

ReneH

Re: It won't stop...I'm helpless!

Hey Gary...it was to be too good to be true...

I have changed the header gaskets against very durable aluminum types and also added the new screws...

In the end it seems that my first apprehension unfortunately was correct...but hear by your own:

Video 01

Video 02

I currently have one bottle of the break-in additive left, but I think it will be a waste to add it...

So, I should start again with the tear down...

Gary Lewis

Re: It won't stop...I'm helpless!

Administrator

Oh no! Let’s see what others say, but that sounds like lifters to me.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

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