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Fuel Line Fitting: Hairpin or Duck Bill Clip? (’85 F-150 EFI 5l dual tanks)

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Nemesis F150

Re: Fuel Line Fitting: Hairpin or Duck Bill Clip? (’85 F-150 EFI 5l dual tanks)

This post was updated on .

Thanks for the info Gary.

Based on the diagram "FUEL LINES and RELATED PARTS, 1985 F150/250 - 8 CYL 302 (5.0L) - E.F.I., this is what I came up with for the minimum Dorman connectors to order. All tubing size will be 3/8" and all connectors will be to steel. In the table "S" was used for Straight and "L" for angled.

Notes:
(1) the existing lines from the Reservoir has one angle and one straight, but it is not known what the line size is so will order an extra connector for each line size connection (if that makes sense)

(2) Pump: It is unknown what the terminations are for the exit lines where they attach to something, so nothing counted for the ends. If anyone knows what the ends are please let me know. Otherwise, may use existing line or fix line later.

(3) Rear and Midship Tank connections are assumed to be straight.

(4) Have not checked if there is a "standard pack" quantity available yet.

[Help! I need more learning! Can't get the image to be larger. Started with a numbers file, saved to pdf (because jpg wasn't an option), then saved the pdf file to jpg and "largest". Still can't get image larger.]
[EDIT: Aug 1, 2022 Did a Screen Shot of the spreadsheet then saved it as a *.JPG and posted it. BINGO!
Thanks, Gary. (Learn something new every day!) ]
[Edit #2: noticed that the pdf file didn't have the Rear Tank row included in the spreadsheet. Went back to the file and grabbed the one with that row in it and replaced the mini spreadsheet. ]

-= John =- 1985 F-150 EFI 302/5.0L dual tanks, long-wide bed, "heavy-half"

Gary Lewis

Re: Fuel Line Fitting: Hairpin or Duck Bill Clip? (’85 F-150 EFI 5l dual tanks)

Administrator

I think you have it figured out pretty good.

As for picture size, I right-clicked your picture and then clicked Copy Image Address, Clicked Insert Image in the menu above and pasted the address into the "Or copy an image from the internet" field, wiping out the "http://" that's already there.

After clicking Insert Image I added "width="75%" to the code, as shown below - but w/o the "<" and ">" before and after the code so you can see it.

nabble_img src="2022_85_F-150_EFI_5L_2WD_LWB_Dorman_Connectors_24.jpg" border="0"width="75%"/

But sometimes it is easier to take a screenshot of what you are working with instead of saving the file to one format then another. By taking a screenshot you can capture only the area you want and leave things out you don't want, like the "1" at the bottom. But be careful as Win11 seems to want to save screenshots in png format and they can get large quickly. I prefer jpg.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

Nemesis F150

Re: Fuel Line Fitting: Hairpin or Duck Bill Clip? (’85 F-150 EFI 5l dual tanks)

This post was updated on .

Quantity take-off

Issue: One of the key, and important, Dorman fuel line parts is not available any longer. This is the Dorman 800-084 Fuel Line Quick Connector That Adapts 5/16 In. Steel To 3/8 In. Nylon Tubing. The web page states:
“Currently unavailable. We don't know when or if this item will be back in stock.”

There is a ripple effect because without this part one cannot use the 3/8-inch tubing so only the 5/16-inch tube can be used. This creates still another problem: It appears the 5/16 tube is not available in lengths longer than 10-feet and the distance from the Rear Tank to the Tank Switch #9189 …. MAY be LONGER than 10 feet. Realize the rig has a 9-foot bed.

What to do? Options:
If the Rear Tank run is longer than 10 feet then (Option #1) two lengths of the line will be needed for that run, plus a barb-to-barb fitting in order to splice the two sections together. Two lengths of 10-feet will probably be needed anyway for the other sections of 5/16 line.

Option #2 may be to relocate the Tank Switch further aft to eliminate the splice. Don't really want to drill through the frame rail or even reconfigure everything. One thing leads to another. Just remembered, there is also the wire harness to the Tank Switch so moving the switch aft may not be plausible option.

Option #3 may be to just use the old 5/16-inch line. After going this far? Ugh!

I’m sure a 25-foot length of 5/16-inch line must be available 'somewhere' but haven’t found it yet on Amazon. It would be helpful to get everything from one place, especially if it is Dorman.

Is Dorman fazing out this system? Or is this another sign of the broken-link supply chain?

Ready, Set, ORDER (?)!
I’m ready to place an order so if anyone has a resource for the 25-ft roll of 5/16-inch Dorman fuel line PLEASE let me know.
(took a year to get this far, so what is another day or two?)
In the meantime I’ll start putting things in the cart so that much is done.

-= John =- 1985 F-150 EFI 302/5.0L dual tanks, long-wide bed, "heavy-half"

Nemesis F150

Re: Fuel Line Fitting: Hairpin or Duck Bill Clip? (’85 F-150 EFI 5l dual tanks)

Think I found a (1) partial solution with the lack of 5/16 steel > 3/8" connectors AND (2) the 5/16" line problem because only 10-ft lengths are found to be available.

There is a long line run from the Rear Tank to the Fuel Selector VALVE 9189 with both the 5/16" and 3/8" lines.

After looking at the Rear Tank pump/sender unit it was noticed that the 5/16 and 3/8 steel stubs face different directions. Since the two lines run parallel to each other, it appears that a 90º angle 5/16 steel > 3/8 connector can be put there.

Also, the Selector VALVE has both supply and return lines attached to the bottom of the VALVE with 90º angle connectors. Given this condition, with two 5/16 steel > 3/8" connectors this means a 3/8" section of the long 25-ft line can be used for the long return line in lieu of 5/16.

I think this is what I'll go with in the parts order.

-= John =- 1985 F-150 EFI 302/5.0L dual tanks, long-wide bed, "heavy-half"

Gary Lewis

Re: Fuel Line Fitting: Hairpin or Duck Bill Clip? (’85 F-150 EFI 5l dual tanks)

Administrator

I think you have a reasonable plan.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Nemesis F150

Re: Fuel Line Fitting: Hairpin or Duck Bill Clip? (’85 F-150 EFI 5l dual tanks)

Update August 2: The Dorman connector tool kit arrived today, and the fuel lines with various connectors were ordered today with an ETA by the end of this week.

Progress!
Another step forward.

-= John =- 1985 F-150 EFI 302/5.0L dual tanks, long-wide bed, "heavy-half"

ArdWrknTrk

Re: Fuel Line Fitting: Hairpin or Duck Bill Clip? (’85 F-150 EFI 5l dual tanks)

Administrator

Well, that's great news!

Yes, progress is goooood.

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

Gary Lewis

Re: Fuel Line Fitting: Hairpin or Duck Bill Clip? (’85 F-150 EFI 5l dual tanks)

Administrator

In reply to this post by Nemesis F150

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Nemesis F150

Re: Fuel Line Fitting: Hairpin or Duck Bill Clip? (’85 F-150 EFI 5l dual tanks)

In reply to this post by Nemesis F150

A little update on the Dorman fuel line parts order:

Wednesday afternoon: Ordered the parts from Amazon with ONE order. One of the 12 items had to come from a different Amazon warehouse so at checkout it was stated that the one item would be shipped separately with arrivals on different days (one on Thursday and the other on Friday) unless I wanted everything delivered at one time. The thought was it would save gas and driver time if everything would be shipped together so I opted to keep everything together. Check: ship together.

Lo and behold, there were three emails on Thursday, one for each of the separate shipments. Huh??? Yes, they divided everything into 3 separate shipments. I followed the tracking on them with ETAs of 9 or 10 pm.

Today, Friday, at noon, 2 of the shipments arrived, in TWO separate parcels. The third shipment still has a 10 pm ETA.

Oops: Realize that I forgot to order the colored shrink-wrap for tube identification. No biggie, the two lines from the Rear Tank will be different sizes so there is no way to mix them up. The Mid Tank will be installed later.

Fuel Lines:
Both lines are "Nylon Fuel Line" by "Dorman", but what is interesting is that the cosmetics on the packages are way different. The 3/8" line cosmetics is the same multicolor graphics as on all the fittings; however, the 5/16" package (both packages have a folded cardboard strip with a clear plastic bag) is bright yellow with black writing, P/N 800-074, and a Dorman logo.

Comment about the fuel line stiffness:
One line (5/16 x 10ft) is coiled into a very tight 6.5-in OD coil and the other (3/8-in) into a 9.5-in OD coil. Both lines are VERY STIFF! This is not what I had expected (my first time dealing with this type of line). I anticipate it will be more difficult to do the installation than expected, especially when there are tight bends.

The heat gun (away from any fuel) will likely be my friend. Note: even Marine-Grade fuel lines are much more flexible than these are!

QUESTION: Given that the end of the Nylon tubing must be heated so the barb can be inserted, is that all there is to the connection? or is a hose/line clamp needed?

-= John =- 1985 F-150 EFI 302/5.0L dual tanks, long-wide bed, "heavy-half"

Gary Lewis

Re: Fuel Line Fitting: Hairpin or Duck Bill Clip? (’85 F-150 EFI 5l dual tanks)

Administrator

It isn't necessary to heat the end of the tubing to insert the barb. It just helps get the things started. But there is no clamp needed, it won't leak.

And yes, the lines are stiff. Hence the heat to soften them a bit. Again, it isn't needed but just helpful.

If the line is rolled up tightly I think I'd unroll it a day or so before trying to install it. And it doesn't stretch, so don't cut it too short.

As for Amazon's shipping, I've seen the same thing and I've given up on trying to help them. I think they could save a ton of money and a lot of fuel if they would sort their logistics out.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Nemesis F150

Re: Fuel Line Fitting: Hairpin or Duck Bill Clip? (’85 F-150 EFI 5l dual tanks)

This post was updated on .

Thanks for the good awners, Gary.

Gary Lewis wrote

It isn't necessary to heat the end of the tubing to insert the barb. It just helps get the things started. But there is no clamp needed, it won't leak.

Probably should have asked the question before getting this far, but I have to say, I'm surprised. And this is even something that is carrying fuel under pressure!

Gary Lewis wrote

And yes, the lines are stiff. Hence the heat to soften them a bit. Again, it isn't needed but just helpful.

Clamped both lines to the porch this morning so they were able to bask in 85º sunlight most of the day. The tight rolls seemed to have mellowed out into a more-or-less straight line, straight enough for the run down the left frame channel at least.
The yellow cardboard Dorman 5/16-inch line has the same indicator markings as the 3/8-inch line so hopefully, it is less likely to be counterfeit version.

Gary Lewis wrote

As for Amazon's shipping, I've seen the same thing and I've given up on trying to help them. I think they could save a ton of money and a lot of fuel if they would sort their logistics out.

Good to read that I'm not alone on this.

One thing I read yesterday was that Amazon is working on increasing their income from advertising. Their checkout pop-up-ads are everywhere. Unfortunately for the companies paying for their ads, they didn't make any money from me. Not only that, but my satisfaction with Amazon has plummeted.

Update Aug 6: The third (and final) Amazon package arrived ... driver put it in our mailbox instead of on the front porch (like the first two) so didn't think to look there. Have all the pieces now.

Tried to siphon the remaining fuel from the tank this afternoon and couldn't get the end of the hose into the fuel. Blew on the hose but couldn't hear or feel any sound of air bubbles. It is very difficult to get the siphon hose into the tank due to the small access hole that is nestled in the larger fill pipe.

NEW QUESTIONS:
(1) Should one apply some grease to the electrical connection for the Fuel Pump/Sender unit on the top of the tank when connecting the conductors to the new Pump/Sender? Due to the numerous contacts, some dielectric grease that might be good to use.

(2) Edit: Should any grease be put on the steel stubs that the connectors attach to?

(3) Pump/Sender gasket: Should anything be applied to the gasket surfaces, like, say a film of grease to allow the ring to tighten easier? Read an earlier post by someone that discovered theirs leaked so had to pull the tank again. (Not really excited about having the same experience.)

-= John =- 1985 F-150 EFI 302/5.0L dual tanks, long-wide bed, "heavy-half"

Gary Lewis

Re: Fuel Line Fitting: Hairpin or Duck Bill Clip? (’85 F-150 EFI 5l dual tanks)

Administrator

I think I would use some dielectric grease on the connector. And I might put just a bit of grease on the o-ring on the tank as well as the fitting that the fuel connectors slide onto.

And I'm glad you have all the parts now. Time to make a fuel system! And remember, Nylon doesn't stretch very well.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Nemesis F150

Re: Fuel Line Fitting: Hairpin or Duck Bill Clip? (’85 F-150 EFI 5l dual tanks)

Gary Lewis wrote

I think I would use some dielectric grease on the connector. And I might put just a bit of grease on the o-ring on the tank as well as the fitting that the fuel connectors slide onto.

Sounds like a good plan.

Gary Lewis wrote

And I'm glad you have all the parts now. Time to make a fuel system! And remember, Nylon doesn't stretch very well.

Yes, Yes, & Yes!

The main install issue to avoid is a line that is, say, an inch too short. Thinking about how the line runs between the VALVE and the Rear Tank, and looking at the pictures where the line curves a lot at the VALVE 9189 Fuel Switch Unit, a thought I have is to connect the two lines to the VALVE 9189 (fuel switching unit} First, run both lines along the rail with installation under the clips along the way, then where they curve away from the rail to make the short couple-feet run to the Fuel Pump/Sender unit, match the old line alongside the pair from the last clip (markings will be visible on the old lines), then cut the new lines to the same length as the old, then install the Dorman fittings (making sure the new lines can curve the same as the old ones). Use the heat gun at this point for the Dorman installs as they would be in a better ventilated area and significantly distant from any fuel vapors.

Both lines will be 3/8" as the Dorman L-angle connectors for the return line are 5/16 steel to 3/8 Nylon. The new 3/8-inch Nylon is 25-feet long so that should surely be enough for the Rear Tank parallel runs. I'll mark the return line with blue 3M tape to ensure it doesn't get mis-located at installation. Don't think I have any colored heat-shrink (might have some red somewhere).

QUESTION: If the fuel selector on the dash is set to the rear tank, is all the return fuel SUPPOSED to go to the rear tank? The Mid-Tank (to be replaced once the Rear is up and running) has old fuel and shouldn't be cross-connected.

Question #2: When the dash fuel selector is moved from one tank to the other, does the VALVE make any kind of click noise?

Question #3: Can, or is it a good idea, to check the new fuel pump for operation before installation?

-= John =- 1985 F-150 EFI 302/5.0L dual tanks, long-wide bed, "heavy-half"

Gary Lewis

Re: Fuel Line Fitting: Hairpin or Duck Bill Clip? (’85 F-150 EFI 5l dual tanks)

Administrator

I think you have a good plan.

On the questions:

QUESTION: If the fuel selector on the dash is set to the rear tank, is all the return fuel SUPPOSED to go to the rear tank? The Mid-Tank (to be replaced once the Rear is up and running) has old fuel and shouldn't be cross-connected. Yes, all of the return should go to the tank from which fuel is being supplied. Assuming the valve is working correctly.

Question #2: When the dash fuel selector is moved from one tank to the other, does the VALVE make any kind of click noise? Your valve has a motor in it, as shown in the diagram below, and I think you should be able to feel or hear it move. But those valves are known to fail such that they'll pull from one tank and return to both. You might want to put some low-pressure air to it and see that it is switching properly.

Question #3: Can, or is it a good idea, to check the new fuel pump for operation before installation? I've not done that as I don't want to spin the pump w/o some liquid in it for lubrication. But I didn't like the idea of having water in the pump, and I don't want to play with gasoline and electricity. So I didn't.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

85lebaront2

Re: Fuel Line Fitting: Hairpin or Duck Bill Clip? (’85 F-150 EFI 5l dual tanks)

Administrator

Gary, on item #3, Varsol can be used for testing, it is thin enough but not as volatile nor flammable as gasoline.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

"Getting old is inevitable, growing up is optional" Darth Vader 1986 F350 460 converted to MAF/SEFI, E4OD 12X3 1/2 rear brakes, traction loc 3:55 gear, 160 amp 3G alternator Wife's 2011 Flex Limited Daily Driver 2009 Flex Limited with factory tow package Project car 1986 Chrysler LeBaron convertible 2.2L Turbo II, modified A413

Gary Lewis

Re: Fuel Line Fitting: Hairpin or Duck Bill Clip? (’85 F-150 EFI 5l dual tanks)

Administrator

Thanks, Bill. Wasn't aware of that.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Nemesis F150

Re: Fuel Line Fitting: Hairpin or Duck Bill Clip? (’85 F-150 EFI 5l dual tanks)

In reply to this post by 85lebaront2

[delayed reply due to new 'issues' that cropped up and had to be dealt with. It's all about life and priorities]

Gary - Thank you very much for the answers (they really help), AND the great diagram. Printed the diagram full-screen and this will help a lot.

Bill -

85lebaront2 wrote

Gary, on item #3, Varsol can be used for testing, it is thin enough but not as volatile nor flammable as gasoline.

Varsol seems like it would be very helpful for dong the pump test.

I called around to Home Depot (closest), Lowes, paint stores and hardware stores, but unfortunately nobody carries it.

On-line the description says it can also be used for cleaning the engine. Would have been handy to use the "after the test" liquid for engine and under-the-hood cleaning.

UPDATE: After two days in the summer sun while clamped along the porch railing, the two lines are quite straight now. Took the lines off and, thanks to the long-wide bed, put stakes in the stake holes and clamped the lines to them and the rear view mirror so they are ready to use without having to re-straighten them again. Had to loop the 25-foot line around the tailgate stake.

THOUGHT (Uh-oh): Before taking everything apart (Note: have not been able to get the last several gallons of fuel out of the Rear Tank yet) would it be worthwhile to check if the Tank Switching Unit (aka VALVE) makes a noise? Or, if one can hear if the tank Pump/Sender makes a noise? The latter might be difficult to hear since it would still have some gas around it to muffle the sound. Downside: If anything does work it would no doubt pressurize the line.

-= John =- 1985 F-150 EFI 302/5.0L dual tanks, long-wide bed, "heavy-half"

Gary Lewis

Re: Fuel Line Fitting: Hairpin or Duck Bill Clip? (’85 F-150 EFI 5l dual tanks)

Administrator

I would use low-pressure air to test the valve. But then I have a compressed-air system and a regulator so I can dial the pressure down to less than 10 psi if I want. In this case I'd use 40 psi air and see if the valve switches both supply and return as it should.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Nemesis F150

Re: Fuel Line Fitting: Hairpin or Duck Bill Clip? (’85 F-150 EFI 5l dual tanks)

Limited air pressure options available. Had a good write-up with five options but opted out of posting them due to being far-fetched and grasping at straws. Air compressor option isn't available. Think the best option available is to just listen for a motor noise; if there is one then "hope" it will work; if totally silent then "Plan B" would be to check the electrical connection for voltage.

If no voltage, then troubleshoot conductors upstream.

If voltage but no noise, remove Fuel Line Selector VALVE and bench test. If non-functional, then buy new Valve.

QUESTIONS: If all the fuel lines (6 of them) are disconnected in order to remove VALVE, wouldn't fuel run out from the lines? Siphon? Both the Mid-Tank and the Rear Tank is higher than the VALVE.

Or, if the fuel pumps are not operating, then would only the gas in the lines drain out? The new Fuel Pump/Sender units have a joker valve (Plumbing speak) that would prevent siphoning (if fully functional).

-= John =- 1985 F-150 EFI 302/5.0L dual tanks, long-wide bed, "heavy-half"

Gary Lewis

Re: Fuel Line Fitting: Hairpin or Duck Bill Clip? (’85 F-150 EFI 5l dual tanks)

Administrator

I hope you can feel it run.

And yes, fuel can run out. That has been a problem for me before. In one case I made a blank fitting by soldering it closed and put that in the supply line to stop the leak.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

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