Fuel Line Fitting: Hairpin or Duck Bill Clip? (’85 F-150 EFI 5l dual tanks)

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Fuel Line Fitting: Hairpin or Duck Bill Clip? (’85 F-150 EFI 5l dual tanks)

Nemesis F150
This post was updated on .
The fuel line Push-Connect fittings that use clips are one of two types, the Hairpin and the Duck Bill. The ones in the picture look like they would be the Hairpin type, but I'm not sure.

Since new clips will have to be used I would like to buy them ahead of time.
Question #1: Is that what these look like, Hairpin clips?

Question #2: Is this the High Pressure Fuel Pump?
Reason for asking, there doesn’t look like there is any room for the pump; only for, maybe, check valve. Also, don’t see a conductor going to it. However, it is in the location where the High Pressure pump should be, left frame rail under the drivers seat.

There were several changes during this model year, such as for fuel filter locations, so would like to know what it is and what to call it.

[Edit: Just thought of one more question]
Question #3: Anyone know of a "plug" that can be used on the disconnected fuel lines while things are being worked on? Or if such a thing even exists?

-= John =-

-= John =- 1985 F-150 EFI 302/5.0L dual tanks, long-wide bed, "heavy-half"
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Re: Fuel Line Fitting: Hairpin or Duck Bill Clip? (’85 F-150 EFI 5l dual tanks)

ArdWrknTrk
Administrator
That's just the filter housing.
You need to look for a separate inline fuel pump farther forward on the driver's side rail.
This is the Motorcraft PF4:



I have never heard duckbill or hairpin.
The same clips were used from '83 through 2004, and are available aftermarket from Dorman/HELP!.
They come both 3/8. (55147) and 5/16" (800-003)




https://www.dormanproducts.com/p-8559-800-003.aspx?origin=keyword
 Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.
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Re: Fuel Line Fitting: Hairpin or Duck Bill Clip? (’85 F-150 EFI 5l dual tanks)

Nemesis F150
Jim - thanks for the info on the clips and the url. Since they've been made for many years they should be easy to find. The url indicated there are several places locally that cary their products.

I went back and made a correction on a previous drawing so I hope this is okay.


Next step is to verify the pump location.

This is all a part of getting ready to remove the fuel tanks.

-= John =- 1985 F-150 EFI 302/5.0L dual tanks, long-wide bed, "heavy-half"
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Re: Fuel Line Fitting: Hairpin or Duck Bill Clip? (’85 F-150 EFI 5l dual tanks)

ArdWrknTrk
Administrator
I just want to point out that the feed and return lines on my truck are different sizes.
This is why I show both the 3/8 and 5/16 part numbers.

I'm not aware of any plug.
If the lines haven't turned to mush from ethanol you can use hemostats to clamp the nylon lines.
 Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.
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Re: Fuel Line Fitting: Hairpin or Duck Bill Clip? (’85 F-150 EFI 5l dual tanks)

Nemesis F150
This post was updated on .
ArdWrknTrk wrote
I just want to point out that the feed and return lines on my truck are different sizes.
This is why I show both the 3/8 and 5/16 part numbers.
Excellent reminder!  
I remember reading about the different sizes for the supply & return but forgot about that.
There is soooo much to remember, and, the devil is in the details. Sometimes little ones!

ArdWrknTrk wrote
I'm not aware of any plug.
If the lines haven't turned to mush from ethanol you can use hemostats to clamp the nylon lines.
"... turned to mush..."? Doesn't sound good. Started using non-ethanol fuel only about four years ago, there is a station nearby that sells it, also using it in the yard equipment (which is mostly old), and the outboard motor. For the few miles I've been driving the 150 it didn't amount to that much cost. But, the part about the fuel lines turning to mush is a bummer.

Learning something new here all the time!!!

Will have to look up about the hemostats.
[Edit: I have a pair of Vice Grip clamps that could be used but they are somewhat heavy. Would use something to cushion the force on the fuel line to avoid damage, especially if the lines are soft. Also have some small C-clamps, (along with cushioning for them, too). Come to think of it, have a few other types of clamps, some ratchet and some spring loaded. However, might be into buying something more automotive for this.
-= John =- 1985 F-150 EFI 302/5.0L dual tanks, long-wide bed, "heavy-half"
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Re: Fuel Line Fitting: Hairpin or Duck Bill Clip? (’85 F-150 EFI 5l dual tanks)

ArdWrknTrk
Administrator
Dorman also makes repair kits with new line and these connectors on the end. (Both sizes, straight and 90°)

I don't have any personal experience but Gary has used them on his trucks after finding that his fuel lines were leaking.
Perhaps he can weigh in on that experience or drop a link to where he has it documented.
 Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.
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Re: Fuel Line Fitting: Hairpin or Duck Bill Clip? (’85 F-150 EFI 5l dual tanks)

Nemesis F150
This post was updated on .
Leaking??? OMG!
Not good!

As long as this tread is on the subject of fuel lines, fuel filter (see diagram), and fuel pump (also in diagram), a big question is about the pressure in the lines between the tanks and, say, the fuel filter or fuel pump.

With the EFI system the fuel lines ae supposed to be pressurized, and in order to remove the tanks the lines will have to be disconnected. Given that there is a fuel pump inside each tank, that means the line going forward (toward the engine) will, or can (or whatever it is technically called), have pressure in it. However, when I've changed the fuel filter it hasn't been a problem, just unscrew and drop the can with the filter, pop a new filter on, then screw the can back up. Had a container to catch any spilled fuel but that was never a problem as there wasn't very much.

So, getting ready to remove the tanks:
If the filter is removed (see Edited diagram above), and with the battery disconnected, should one be able to safely disconnect the fuel line (that runs to the tank) where it attaches at the filter?
My understanding is that the tank pumps are not a high pressure type, so the pressurized line should then have only low pressure, and hopefully not squirt a lot of fuel at the connection joint.

I was thinking about starting a separate thread about this part but maybe it isn't necessary. Or is it?

At least for the tank aft of the rear axel, I know that it cannot be dropped without disconnecting and/or removal of the tank fuel pump assembly. The mid tank I haven't researched but assume would be similar.

The part about the fuel line being soft or mushy means that this is probably a good time to replace them. But, what an ordeal! But if not now, then the tanks would have to be dropped again, or the bed removed.
-= John =- 1985 F-150 EFI 302/5.0L dual tanks, long-wide bed, "heavy-half"
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Re: Fuel Line Fitting: Hairpin or Duck Bill Clip? (’85 F-150 EFI 5l dual tanks)

Nemesis F150
In reply to this post by ArdWrknTrk
ArdWrknTrk wrote
Dorman also makes repair kits with new line and these connectors on the end. (Both sizes, straight and 90°)
VERY GOOD to know. I was wondering about how to make these up.

Would probably have to remove the lines in one piece to determine the exact length.
This might be easier than I thought.
Note that the lines have a foam cover on them so that would have to be put on prior to the connectors, (unless it is split). Hopefully that would be an option they can do.
The good part is that with new connectors the connection has a greater chance of being leak-free.
[Edit: Did I say that there is so much good information here!!!?]
-= John =- 1985 F-150 EFI 302/5.0L dual tanks, long-wide bed, "heavy-half"
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Re: Fuel Line Fitting: Hairpin or Duck Bill Clip? (’85 F-150 EFI 5l dual tanks)

ArdWrknTrk
Administrator
There are O-rings you will see when you disconnect the lines. They are the primary seal and you probably want to replace them.

I'm going to tag Gary in this conversation, so perhaps he can add his experience with making up these lines.
 Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.
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Re: Fuel Line Fitting: Hairpin or Duck Bill Clip? (’85 F-150 EFI 5l dual tanks)

ArdWrknTrk
Administrator
In reply to this post by Nemesis F150
I didn't see this post.
You can depress the Schrader valve on the fuel rail to relieve the pressure.
Fluids don't compress so there shouldn't be much volume.

If you unclip the fuel lines from the back of the driver's side frame and the cross member in front of the rear tank, you should be able to drop it far enough to reach up and disconnect the feed and return from the tank bung.
(at least I have been able to whenever I've had to get the rear tank down)
 Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.
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Re: Fuel Line Fitting: Hairpin or Duck Bill Clip? (’85 F-150 EFI 5l dual tanks)

Nemesis F150
Hi Jim - you've been a great help. I feel like I'm beginning to get all my ducks in a row now.

Did some research for the most probable location of the Schrader Valve and haven't been able to spot it. The main schematic titled "FUEL LINES and RELATED PARTS, 1985 F150/250 - 8 CYL. 302 (5.0L) - E.F.I" doesn't indicate it. A logical place for it, I think, would be on or near the High Pressure Pump "A" or perhaps the "%9K044 (RESERVOIR)" shown on the schematic.
http://www.garysgaragemahal.com/1985-f-series-302-wefi.html

Searched on-line for the "9C407 (PUMP)" and couldn't find anything except small pictures. There are a number of fuel pumps with the 9C407 designation but with various model versions, so basically, another dead end. Hate to ask another ....

Question: Where would be a logical place to look for the Schrader Valve given that virtually everything on this rig is original (except tires, filters, and, oh yes, windshield wipers)?

Speaking of Schrader, (that's August Schrader: hey, this is August!) a piece of trivia: According to Wikipedia, he invented the valve way back in 1891.
-= John =- 1985 F-150 EFI 302/5.0L dual tanks, long-wide bed, "heavy-half"
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Re: Fuel Line Fitting: Hairpin or Duck Bill Clip? (’85 F-150 EFI 5l dual tanks)

Gary Lewis
Administrator
IIRC the first EFI systems didn't have a Schrader valve. In fact, here's a search for "early schrader valve" and there are a couple of hits.

And the logical place is near the regulator, but if yours doesn't have one there then I'm guessing yours is an early one.
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker in front & 10.25 Spicer/Trutrac in back, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: Fuel Line Fitting: Hairpin or Duck Bill Clip? (’85 F-150 EFI 5l dual tanks)

ArdWrknTrk
Administrator
This post was updated on .
In reply to this post by Nemesis F150
You should find the valve (or pressure test port) on the fuel rail somewhere near the pressure regulator.
But Gary may be on to something I'm not aware of.

Any number from the diagram is the Ford basic part number for every electric fuel pump ever made.
You will need the prefix and suffix to complete the part number.
For that you need to go to the Master Parts Catalog or the applications charts.

But that is why I included the Motorcraft number.
While I'm not entirely sure, I do believe that is correct for your early EFI truck.

I can do a bit more digging if you don't find the answer you need.

Edit: I see now what you mean.
When I dig into the documentation I can only find the in tank pumps and no information on the frame rail booster pump.




Also looking at the EFI illustration there, there doesn't seem to be a port for a fuel pressure gauge on the early frame rail, as Gary pointed out.
Sorry for the misleading comment.
 Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.
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Re: Fuel Line Fitting: Hairpin or Duck Bill Clip? (’85 F-150 EFI 5l dual tanks)

ArdWrknTrk
Administrator
In reply to this post by Gary Lewis
Gary, do you have anything to add about remaking this type of fuel line using the Dorman kits?

This is why I originally tagged you in the thread.
I know there was some back and forth with Bill when you were doing this. But the details are lost on me and I'm not going back through your thread on my phone to get a permalink where the details are laid out.

Also trying to come up with a valid and complete Ford part number for the frame mounted booster pump on this 5.0l
 Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.
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Re: Fuel Line Fitting: Hairpin or Duck Bill Clip? (’85 F-150 EFI 5l dual tanks)

Nemesis F150
This post was updated on .
In reply to this post by ArdWrknTrk
ArdWrknTrk wrote
Any number from the diagram is the Ford basic part number for every electric fuel pump ever made.
You will need the prefix and suffix to complete the part number.
For that you need to go to the Master Parts Catalog or the applications charts.

But that is why I included the Motorcraft number.
While I'm not entirely sure, I do believe that is correct for your early EFI truck.
Thank you for all that information. This helps to explain all the different model names.

ArdWrknTrk wrote
Sorry for the misleading comment.
Old saying: "Nothing is so bad that there isn't some good"
If there is no Schrader Valve then maybe there should be one? Ditto, or pressure test port? Is there a way to put one, or these, in one of the new lines?

My preference would be to order the lines already "made up" than to do it myself. If I didn't make it up well enough and there was a problem, it would be a lot of work to re-drop the tank and do it all over again. Once would be enough. Besides, there is still the opportunity for a problem if the connection isn't cleaned just right, the O-ring not seating well enough, etc. Preference would be for an experienced person to install the connectors.

The plan is to get all new parts (good ones) and replace everything. Clean gas makes for a happy engine.

Have done a lot of mechanic work in the old days but life was simpler back then. Oldest engine was a 4-cyl Dort with only 2 main bearings (circa 1916) and a Model T carb, set crosswise on Model T rails and running a 27" buzz saw blade. Used it to cut cordwood next to a lumber mill. Dort name plate on the radiator looked like Ford, oval, blue and white, similar writing style.

Regulator? Don't know if there is one ... would this be something good, or easy, to add? (Another saying: "Don't ask the question if you don't want to hear the answer!") Actually, for now, would just like to get the show on the road, if it can be added later.
-= John =- 1985 F-150 EFI 302/5.0L dual tanks, long-wide bed, "heavy-half"
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Re: Fuel Line Fitting: Hairpin or Duck Bill Clip? (’85 F-150 EFI 5l dual tanks)

Gary Lewis
Administrator
Ok, here's what I know about doing the fuel lines.  In another post I'll look for part numbers and discuss regulators and Schrader valves.

Yes, the supply is 3/8" and the return is 5/16".  However, Dorman sells a roll of 3/8" Nylon line that is just long enough to do the whole truck, both supply and return: Dorman 800-072 3/8 in. Nylon Fuel Line - Black, 25 ft..  And they sell connectors that connect the 3/8" line to the 3/8" steel line as well as connectors that connect 3/8" line to 5/16" steel line.  But to put the line on the barbs of the connectors you either need to be pretty good with heat or, better yet, use the Dorman 800-301 Fuel Line Repair Tool.

That's what I did and there are NO leaks.  It went together very nicely and actually pretty easily.
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker in front & 10.25 Spicer/Trutrac in back, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: Fuel Line Fitting: Hairpin or Duck Bill Clip? (’85 F-150 EFI 5l dual tanks)

Gary Lewis
Administrator
In reply to this post by Nemesis F150
Oh yes, I forgot to say that you may be able to buy the lines already made up.  I'll work on those part numbers in another post if you want.  But I doubt you can find them and if you do they won't be cheap.

As for the frame mounted fuel pump, guess what was missing from this site?    But it is there now at Documentation/Fuel Systems/Fuel System Part Numbers/Fuel Senders And Pumps.  But we'll include it here for simplicity.



As for the regulator, it is on the back of the fuel delivery manifold and is base part # 9C968.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker in front & 10.25 Spicer/Trutrac in back, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: Fuel Line Fitting: Hairpin or Duck Bill Clip? (’85 F-150 EFI 5l dual tanks)

ArdWrknTrk
Administrator
Thanks for including the frame mounted part number Gary!
Looking these things up on my phone is fraught at best.

E7TZ-9C407-B does seem to cross to the Motorcraft pump I've shown above.
but Wowzzer! They are REALLY proud of that little thing!

I'm sure they are available in the aftermarket from Wells, Carter, Delphi or others, without the bloody nose.
 Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.
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Re: Fuel Line Fitting: Hairpin or Duck Bill Clip? (’85 F-150 EFI 5l dual tanks)

Nemesis F150
In reply to this post by Gary Lewis
Gary Lewis wrote
Ok, here's what I know about doing the fuel lines.  In another post I'll look for part numbers and discuss regulators and Schrader valves.

Yes, the supply is 3/8" and the return is 5/16".  However, Dorman sells a roll of 3/8" Nylon line that is just long enough to do the whole truck, both supply and return
Music to my ears! Question: (the Devil is in the details!): Does this apply to a long bed???
(Note: If not, I've heard that Nylon can stretch )

Anyway, there was this post:
"Rusty S85 Aug 6, 2021 10:53am
should be 5/16" hardline.

That is what is on my truck is 5/16" line from tank to carb.  Going to be replaced with 3/8" hardline as 5/16" is too small for high volume high pressure EFI pump.  For a carb 5/16" would be fine for a stock or fairly stock engine....."
url reference: http://forum.garysgaragemahal.com/Fuel-Line-Fix-td101554.html

(Note: I don't know how to cross-thread quote something)
So, going all 3/8", round trip, wouldn't hurt and might even be helpful.

Question: What does anyone know about the clips that hold the tubes/lines to the rail? would gong all 3/8" create a size problem?

Gary Lewis wrote
That's what I did and there are NO leaks.  It went together very nicely and actually pretty easily.
Gary - this sounds VERY encouraging!
With all this information I think I'm game to do the connectors myself.
Question: On your project, did you put the foam cover on the lines (like is shown in my pictures)?

If no one has done it, I'd be willing to make a How-To video about making up the connectors on the Nylon lines.
Thanks a bunch for all the helpful URLs.
-= John =- 1985 F-150 EFI 302/5.0L dual tanks, long-wide bed, "heavy-half"
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Re: Fuel Line Fitting: Hairpin or Duck Bill Clip? (’85 F-150 EFI 5l dual tanks)

Nemesis F150
This post was updated on .
In reply to this post by ArdWrknTrk
ArdWrknTrk wrote
Thanks for including the frame mounted part number Gary!
Looking these things up on my phone is fraught at best.

E7TZ-9C407-B does seem to cross to the Motorcraft pump I've shown above.
but Wowzzer! They are REALLY proud of that little thing!

I'm sure they are available in the aftermarket from Wells, Carter, Delphi or others, without the bloody nose.
Ye$$$$!
I've noticed that too!
The Model A had a gravity-feed tank but Ford has "improved" things, but on the other hand, Model A's didn't have fuel injection.
-= John =- 1985 F-150 EFI 302/5.0L dual tanks, long-wide bed, "heavy-half"
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