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460 swap into a 78 Bronco

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viven44

Re: 460 swap into a 78 Bronco

Noted!

Just checked DB Electrical (thanks for another vendor referral). Unfortunately no alternators showing up in this case for a 80s V-belt 460.

Vivek

- 'Big Blue 2WD' - 1984 F350 RWD 460/C6
- 1978 Bronco with a 460 from an 86 Bullnose/C6

ArdWrknTrk

Re: 460 swap into a 78 Bronco

Administrator

You change the pulley

Go read the 3G upgrade tutorial.....

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

viven44

Re: 460 swap into a 78 Bronco

Will do!

I just grafted another piece which should give me the needed clearance. Somehow this looks more normal and proportionate

Vivek

- 'Big Blue 2WD' - 1984 F350 RWD 460/C6
- 1978 Bronco with a 460 from an 86 Bullnose/C6

Gary Lewis

Re: 460 swap into a 78 Bronco

Administrator

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

ArdWrknTrk

Re: 460 swap into a 78 Bronco

Administrator

In reply to this post by viven44

I lucked out and bought a Magnaflow universal tail pipe from Amazon for under $40 delivered.
Not a current number, but it fit great, and I cut off a Audi stainless hanger.
Demon sells stainless flux core wire.... 🤪

Edit: you said you read my post from 2011....

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

viven44

Re: 460 swap into a 78 Bronco

Nice ! I’m just using Harbor freight 0.035 flux core wire.

Speaking of stainless, I saw option to installed a stainless exhaust system. Does that fare better for rust ?

Vivek

- 'Big Blue 2WD' - 1984 F350 RWD 460/C6
- 1978 Bronco with a 460 from an 86 Bullnose/C6

ArdWrknTrk

Re: 460 swap into a 78 Bronco

Administrator

You think?

Ask Bill about CRES. Because no steel is truly 'stainless'

309 & 409 are probably what you'll find most often

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

viven44

Re: 460 swap into a 78 Bronco

Decided to take it out on the alleyway, and Jim I gotta give it to you. It is a low-end torque monster. Also cranks up real easy. Glad the timing chain was done.

I do have a problem with the steering. It doesn't like to turn left at all, very high level of effort... easy to turn right. I'll probably start a thread on this.

The bronco came with a new steering box, not sure why it was purchased by previous owner, maybe this is why.

Video of the problem statement
https://youtu.be/vlSDXBLro-c

Vivek

- 'Big Blue 2WD' - 1984 F350 RWD 460/C6
- 1978 Bronco with a 460 from an 86 Bullnose/C6

Gary Lewis

Re: 460 swap into a 78 Bronco

Administrator

You have air in the system, which is why the fluid is frothy. You need to put the front end on stands, start the engine, and turn the steering full lock left/right/left/right etc until the noise is gone. But stop and add fluid from time to time, waiting until the bubbles go out of it.

Make SURE you start the engine before turning the steering wheel. That C-II pump will spray fluid through the itty bitty vent hole all over the engine compartment if you don't have the engine running.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

viven44

Re: 460 swap into a 78 Bronco

After that video, I must have done the lock to lock both with and without engine running multiple times. No change. The pump engages in only one direction. I’m hearing that if the control valve in the steering box is stuck it can do this.

Vivek

- 'Big Blue 2WD' - 1984 F350 RWD 460/C6
- 1978 Bronco with a 460 from an 86 Bullnose/C6

ArdWrknTrk

Re: 460 swap into a 78 Bronco

Administrator

It's certainly not the pump.
The pump is spinning the same, either way you turn.

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

viven44

Re: 460 swap into a 78 Bronco

OK wherever it was the problem is fixed now !!!

I took Gary's word, and decided I should 'bleeding try more' and try more bleeding

Tried to the bleed the system as I assumed the fluid was already full. Every time I tried to do it with the engine running, it would burp out more fluid. Then decided to try to bleed with the engine off, every few turns, I noticed the fluid level kept dropping until it wasn't visible anymore. Then added more fluid and turned on the engine. I heard that gurgling noise and fluid was at the bottom and I could see it running. Kept pouring more fluid until the gurgling noise went away. I suppose gurgling was it trying to suck more air and bleed at the same time, which is counterproductive. Anyway. After the noise disappeared the problem went away!!

I guess I have never had to bleed a PS system before. Even all my previous sitting trucks had a good system.

The pump is a noisy little feller though. It (THINK) it was noisy on the bullnose as well. I will replace it.

Vivek

- 'Big Blue 2WD' - 1984 F350 RWD 460/C6
- 1978 Bronco with a 460 from an 86 Bullnose/C6

Gary Lewis

Re: 460 swap into a 78 Bronco

Administrator

Yep, the C-II pump is notoriously noisy. Like the geared Mopar starter, you can hear a Ford truck coming a block away. (One of the benefits of a Saginaw pump.)

Anyway, glad you got it bled. That can be a pain, but when you get it done you'll quickly forget it.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

ArdWrknTrk

Re: 460 swap into a 78 Bronco

Administrator

In reply to this post by viven44

The Grrrring is a signature of all Ford vehicles with that pump.

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

viven44

Re: 460 swap into a 78 Bronco

I see. Didn't know the difference between a Saginaw and C-II. On this link below, I assume all of them are C-IIs.

https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/ford,1986,f-250,7.5l+460cid+v8,1124031,steering,power+steering+pump,7380

And installing a saginaw means new brackets, etc I assume.

It has an excessive whine, do y'all think a new one (Even a C-II) would be quieter ?

Vivek

- 'Big Blue 2WD' - 1984 F350 RWD 460/C6
- 1978 Bronco with a 460 from an 86 Bullnose/C6

Gary Lewis

Re: 460 swap into a 78 Bronco

Administrator

The F-Series & Broncos only came with the C-II. The Saginaw pumps came on the E-Series. And yes, you have to get the right brackets and probably hoses to go that way.

But there is an outfit making a C-II with Saginaw internals. Not cheap, but it is quiet.

Otherwise, you can replace your pump and expect to get a different tone, but not silence.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Gary Lewis

Re: 460 swap into a 78 Bronco

Administrator

Look at Jim's post here for the info on the new pumps: https://forum.garysgaragemahal.com/Saginaw-Conversion-for-82-400-tp140983p141020.html

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

viven44

Re: 460 swap into a 78 Bronco

Thank you !!!

Vivek

- 'Big Blue 2WD' - 1984 F350 RWD 460/C6
- 1978 Bronco with a 460 from an 86 Bullnose/C6

viven44

Re: 460 swap into a 78 Bronco

This post was updated on .

In reply to this post by Gary Lewis

Happy to report that the pump is quiet now. I hear the faintest whining still but it's better than all the other bullnoses. I probably need to do this to the other bullnoses.

Earlier yesterday, I noticed the pump was still puking after a few rounds of vehicle being on and off.
The reason it is noisy as we all know is because of the air in the system causing cavitation in the fluid, and this is also why I figured it was puking.

I think I've found a method that works. It is the same as what I described yesterday but multiple rounds of bleeding. The fluid and engine need to be fully warm. With the engine running and fluid fully warm, open the reservoir and pour fluid until the gurgling noise goes away. Close the reservoir. Then cycle the steering a few times, the fluid level goes down and there is gurgling noise again, pour fluid again until the gurgling noise goes away. Keep doing this until the fluid level doesn't go down.

Now there is no puking (despite the fact that I added a lot of fluid with the engine running), pump is quiet and the steering effort is minimal!!

For this level of quietness to be effective long-term there should be no PS fluid leaks that will cause the fluid level to drop and cause air introduction.

Vivek

- 'Big Blue 2WD' - 1984 F350 RWD 460/C6
- 1978 Bronco with a 460 from an 86 Bullnose/C6

ArdWrknTrk

Re: 460 swap into a 78 Bronco

Administrator

The noise is more than just air in the system.

If you ever turn the wheel with the engine off it WILL squirt out the vent hole in the fill cap/dip stick

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

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