460 Non EEC Distributor

I was cleaning and flushing my coolant system and had drove the truck for around 2 1/2 hours , did a rinse then serviced it with coolant.

All looked good, so I was going to run some errands and left the truck running to go in the house and get some stuff.

As I started up the stairs the truck died. Go try to start it and no go. I wasn’t getting consistent readings on the coil and I’ve had coils go bad before so I went and got one. Wasn’t it. Started checking things with the Haynes manual, could find any in the Ford manuals and it referred me to the Emissions and Diagnostic manual which I don’t have. And the Haynes is good in this situation.

At the four wire connector I had no resistance in the stator assembly. Pulled the distributor cap and there it is, a broken wire on the stator.

Go to NAPA and get a stator. Couldn’t get it to run right. Finally seemed to be running ok, but wouldn’t start because the timing was too advanced.

Ok, called it a day. Next day, I’m thinking the distributor has to be off a tooth. After a few attempts, same thing. Got it to run with the idle way up. So, I thought something else is wrong too. Started the checks again. Everything checks good. Get to the stator and no resistance, no continuity. Wow! Bad part. Go back to NAPA and they had the next down from Echlin.

Took it home and no resistance. Take it back and take my meter. Go to the Zone and they have one I try at the counter, same thing.

I’m assuming these are made for EEC systems that have a way to trigger it. Checked my original, which I believe is the one put on at the factory, and I’ve got around 800 ohms, should be 400 to 1200. Found the part number here and found one on Ford Parts Giant. Thought I’d go to our local dealer and she said it was discontinued, after I gave her the part number.

Ordered the one from Parts Giant. Hopefully it’s within specs. Or I may have to put in a different distributor. A Pertronix, MSD or (shudder) an HEI.

So a warning, this part may not be available or properly speced for a non EEC engine.

Thinking about tearing into my old stator to see if I can make it work.

That's quite a story, Dane.  Hard to believe they don't stock the right stator.

From the MPC listing below from our page at Documentation/Electrical/Distributors shows it as D4PZ 12A112-A.  And I find lots of them via a Google search.

But I hope your new one fixes the problem.

Thanks Gary! That’s how I found the one at Ford Parts Giant. And of course the part number here on your site.

It frustrates me as I use this truck and I’m going to need it in the future. Fortunately I have time to fix it.

I think it says a lot for this ignition system, because I’m sure the stator and coil were OEM.

And if I have to I’ll find another aftermarket distributor.

I assume by 'stator' you mean the reluctor pickup on the DSII dizzy backing plate?  

I have had one go out before.
Are you sure the gap is right and the shaft isn't wobbling, Dane?

Do you have a meter or O-scope that can read it with the engine cranking over?
It doesn't take much to trigger the module.

Do you have a tach dash?
Does it show anything at all?

Yes the pickup. Here, https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/ECHMP700?impressionRank=2&searchCategory=c1.s1&searchIndex=Universal

Shaft seems fine, no gap to set it is held on the shaft by a ring, moved by the vacuum advance.

As I said I can make it run with a lot of advance or turning up the idle speed.

http://www.garysgaragemahal.com/uploads/6/5/8/7/65879365/1986-bronco-f150-350-evtmjpg-page28-wrong_orig.jpg

There should be 400 to 1200 ohms on O/Y and P/LB. I get that on my original with the broken wire. I do not get anything on the parts store ones.

Perhaps I'm misremembering having to check the air gap when I replaced mine because of a broken magnet.  I know there is a spec.

And, I do know the spec for the winding in the pickup.
It's crazy that three of these things were bad off the shelf.  

Not sure what idle speed or ignition advance would have to do with getting it to stay running...
Are you certain the damper hasn't slipped? (Did you check TDC as marked is actually TDC #1?)

Yes, checked for TDC on number one on the compression stroke. Damper is good.

I must not have been clear, I don’t think that all three are bad I think they’re made to a different specification. Or a wrong specification.

I’m assuming they are made for EEC engines. But I just looked at my EVTM and that doesn’t make sense.

Not sure on the advance or high idle either. I’m guessing when it’s going faster it’s picking up something.

Tomorrow I’m going to try to dig into my old one and see if I can clean it up and solder the wires back together. And put it back in.

Then if the one from Ford checks good I’ll put it in.

What you show is a DSII pickup.
It would not have that plug if it weren't.

And that's why I'm surprised the new ones aren't reading 8-900 ohms.
Quality control can't be that poor. There's nothing to go bad just sitting on a shelf.

Plus, you've changed the coil.
Because without finding that broken wire that is where I would have gone first.

I'm sorry I don't have much to offer (but questions)
You seem to be doing everything right.  

Pickup coil specs per AllData:
Resistance 400-1000 ohms with a 250 watt heat lamp held 1 1/2 inches from the coil for 5 minutes.
Gap .017" minimum
These are for Darth's DS-II system (long gone).

Maybe this can be added to the DS-II information?

Bill - See what you think: Documentation/Electrical/Distributors and the Specifications tab.  I left off the Alldata, but can add it if you think we should.

That’s why I think of this as a heads up if the parts aren’t right. And I could be wrong but can’t figure out where. Read through the installation again in the factory manual, nothing I missed there.

Bill, if Darth’s is long gone what did you put in there?

I see where you added that Gary. Interesting on the minimum gap, as there is no way to adjust it.

Jim, yes Duraspark II, didn’t think of clarifying that.

Since Darth is now running MAF/SEFI using an EEC-V system, he has a 1990 (at present) TFI-IV distributor and has the remote mounted Black TFI module on the left inner fender. This is the 1995-97 distributor for the new engine.

Ah yes, now I remember.

What do you Bill and others think of a replacement dizzy?

Thinking Pertronix with one of their coils.

Or an HEI just to have an all in one.

Here’s the culprit after I pulled it.



The wire is exposed at the dizzy entrance, note the tie wrap to mark the wire for reinstallation.



After I razor bladed into it.



Cleaned and ready for soldering. Still have to prep the connector wires.



A good reading!



It’s in and running good. Hoping the new one from FPG is good. I don’t completely trust this repair. Done more for what’s left of my sanity!

Dane, in your first picture, was it that chewed up?!?
Or had you started dissecting it with a razor?

I was just pointing out that the pictures replacement has a DSII connector.
EEC dizzys won't plug up to the harness.
So I can't see you getting another type (PIP for example)

I'm glad your truck is back to normal, and hope an OEM part actually functions as it is supposed to.  

Good eye Jim! I forgot that I started taking pictures after I razored it some. So no, it wasn’t that chewed up.

One wire broken, the other hanging on by a few strands, and some corrosion.

I’m going to go ahead and drive it. I’m picking up a drill press tonight at the right price, free!

And that's the upside to having a pickup and being everybody's friend on moving day!

My 17" Jet drill press has what I'd consider unacceptable run out at the chuck.
But it was a gift from a girlfriend 30 years ago.
I was a fool to let her slip by!

I am not a huge fan of French distributors, especially the ones made of Chineseum. First item, a full GM style HEI is a current hog, typically they have an 8 or 10 ga wire feeding them. To run one properly in a vehicle that wasn't built with one (even an older Chevy) needs a relay to feed power directly from the battery. If you are worried about a good quality replacement for a DS-II system, there really isn't a cheap substitute that does things like cranking retard to ease in starting. If you have a good reliable pickup coil in your distributor, there is a way you can use an HEI type ignition and keep a stock appearance except for the coil. The actual GM 4 pin HEI module doesn't draw the extreme current it is the coil that does it.

GM built a smaller system for their small pickups (S10 & S15) that used an external E-core coil (like a Ford TFI coil) and used a variation of the 4 pin module that mounted in the distributor base. The actual unit looks very similar to an early Corvair distributor with a top mounted mechanical advance. You can do what Lucas did with their "Constant Energy" system, a standard large base GM HEI module was installed in an aluminum box for a heat sink and installed under a standard Lucas electronic ignition coil. They triggered it with what looks like a 70s Chrysler electronic ignition distributor, I would venture a guess that a DS-II distributor would probably trigger it also. You would need to modify the power feed to the coil as the 5.0L EFI engines did, just basically bypass the resistance wire by tapping both ends of it for power. The module would hide nicely inside a junk DS-II module as a heat sink.

Toronado HEI's were popular with with the boosted crowd because they offered triggered timing retard.

If I was going HEI, or faking it with a GM module inside the DSII shell (A'la cheap as dirt ignitions) that's the way I think I'd go.

Ok, I saw that smaller GM system the other day as I was looking into a 1992 S10. And then wondered if GM put that Vortec 4.3 in the 1996 and later S10’s. Which they did. That ought to be a nice little pick up.

If I did go HEI I figured I’d use a continuous duty solenoid to power it.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/smp-ss608?seid=srese1&gclid=CjwKCAjwu5CDBhB9EiwA0w6sLTnieJUaUiMqBI2_22p_uqUjJLWlEYghOeBRovlI8uQa8zr4IaqsKhoCz1IQAvD_BwE

As I said I’m really hoping this stator works because I like the Duraspark II.

I did go ahead and drive it this evening. Running real good. Got my drill press!

Edit: one other thing I’m concerned about is the size of an HEI, I will be using my stock air cleaner.