3G advice

Before I go hacking into my harness to make this conversion, can someone give me some clarity on the below pictured wire. It appears to be white with a black stripe but I'm not sure on that.  

   

ArdWrknTrk wrote

I promised John some pics of the 8.25" 130A alternator installed in my truck.
What I can't show is how tight it was with the stock bracket..









And just for kicks, here are some pics of how I mounted the Megafuse and relay box.

So the narrower 7" ear spacing is the better choice like has been measured on multiple 1G alternators.

Shame that the narrow ear spacing 130A version wont fit too good, I saw it mentioned quite a few times they dont allow the 3G alternator to swing far enough in.  But I also heard the same thing on the wide 8.25" ear spacing.

Either way I still have to make a decision for myself.  I would like to go with the 95A to prevent any chance of belt slippage but I dont know exactly how many amps my dealer A/C, OE radio, OE clock, etc pulls I can only figure what I have a wattage spec on such as headlight bulbs or my CB radio plus CB radio amplifier which I may or may not keep all of that.

Part of me feels 95A would be well over enough, other part of me says to just go with the 130A since its more common and just deal with the possible risk of belt slippage which could happen even without the belt making noise.

I also have a different bracket than what you are using.  Im going to reuse my OE alternator/airpump bracket I just sliced the ears off a second bracket I had for the airpump mounting location.  I thought of getting a older style bracket but I just like the one piece design of this bracket style.

Be real nice if I could run dual V belts or find a pulley system like GM used where I could have a multi-rib belt for just the alternator.  Not sure how that would work with my bolt on dealer AC pulley.  Kinda makes me wonder about throwing a huge V belt on my A/C and seeing if I can get it to line up with the second groove on the alternator and run a dual belt like that.  Only problem I will most likely run into is the thermostat housing as it would be in the way of where the A/C tensioner is mounted.

That probably is the white/black wire headed up to the choke.  Not much else it can be - right?

Gary Lewis wrote

That probably is the white/black wire headed up to the choke.  Not much else it can be - right?

I was thinking the same thing, was fixing to reply to the post but saw you replied after I posted my other reply.

Shame we cant get anyone to make a simple plug and play harness that plugs in like this one but is entirely setup for a 3G.  Closest I found is that overpriced 3G external regulator wiring point kit which I would not buy.

John,
<-That's the stator wire.->
(The choke wire, if it is single female bullet)

It plugs into the recessed socket between the regulator plug and the output stud on the back of the 3G.

When you order the L&L alternator bracket you get a two sheave pulley.
I didn't have a crank pulley that would accept it, so I sent it to Gary.

Rusty,
I don't think the 'narrower' 7" spacing is advantageous in any V-belt setup.
With stock brackets the 7" won't allow you any adjustment, and you can't roll a belt on that's not slipping when installed.

On Gary's EFI 460 or the 302/351 with a top mount alternator and a belt tensioner the 7" one is all that will fit.
If you want a 130A 3G you need to cut some casting away for the 148mm body to fit.

What I will say is that the 8.25" 130A 3G does fit almost any V-belt mounting, so that's the only one I would recommend in public.

It's the choke wire, I'm sure now. It makes such a strange path that it threw me. I'm going to follow it further up into the wiring to confirm. Thanks!

Rusty, the alternator that I ordered is 8.250 C-C. Everything that I've read says a 7" C-C won't work. And, I'm with you in wishing I could have found a 95 amp alternator, but I couldn't find one a the 8.250" C-C.    

John,
I doubt you need 8.25" with the smaller body of the 95A unit.

I'm blue in the face trying to explain the relationship between body diameter and pivot length.

With a fatter body you need a longer pivot (to get it out of the hole)

If someone still has a 2G, or a 60A 1G perhaps they can measure the diameter of theirs and post it here?

Machspeed wrote

Thanks Jim, very kind of you! Can you tell me about that Megafuse and relay box?

The fuse is out of a 130A Taurus. It's in a HMEG holder bolted to the side of a $16 Chinese 6 position fuse and relay box, from eBay.

The relay box comes with fuses, relays and all the crimps/pins you need to run wires into the bottoms of the sockets.
You will need a combination crimper (crimps the wire and the insulation tangs) like my Iwiss or one of the Hozou crimpers from Eastern Beaver.

Machspeed wrote

It's the choke wire, I'm sure now. It makes such a strange path that it threw me. I'm going to follow it further up into the wiring to confirm. Thanks!

Rusty, the alternator that I ordered is 8.250 C-C. Everything that I've read says a 7" C-C won't work. And, I'm with you in wishing I could have found a 95 amp alternator, but I couldn't find one a the 8.250" C-C.

There was a offering of a 8.25" c-c 95A alternator at one time, I seen references to it long ago.  But the problem is everyone dumped the 95A versions for the 130A and they just ceased to exist.

Its why I settled on running a 130A cause I just dont believe there would be a 95A out there anymore in the 8.25" spacing.

Now I know its been stated that you cant get any real belt adjustment out of the 95A on our trucks and I dont know, there is so much out there that goes back and forth its hard to say.  I do know how ever Ive seen enough 1Gs posted on here that it appears they were the smaller 7" spacing which makes me believe the 7" spacing would work on a 95A.  But like wise with the larger case of the 130A I can see why you would need the 8.25" spacing to get the case further out to allow you to allow it to swing properly.  I do know a 7" spacing 130A 3G will not fit, I know the 8.25" will fit and on some brackets you may have to grind to get clearance.  I dont believe you have to do grinding on the OE brackets that are the one piece units with the air pump bracket made in.  The way how the alternator hangs on the bottom and the bracket is up above the alternator there is no real place for this bracket to come into contact with the large case 3G with the 8.25" spacing.  It probably would with the 7" spacing due to case size, but probably wouldnt be a problem with the 7" spacing on the small case 95A 3G.

ArdWrknTrk wrote

Rusty,
I don't think the 'narrower' 7" spacing is advantageous in any V-belt setup.
With stock brackets the 7" won't allow you any adjustment, and you can't roll a belt on that's not slipping when installed.

On Gary's EFI 460 or the 302/351 with a top mount alternator and a belt tensioner the 7" one is all that will fit.
If you want a 130A 3G you need to cut some casting away for the 148mm body to fit.

What I will say is that the 8.25" 130A 3G does fit almost any V-belt mounting, so that's the only one I would recommend in public.

It probably wouldnt be advantageous to run the 7" spacing.  I know the 1Gs I have been seeing for our trucks have the 7" spacing but case size I understand plays into it but I also know there are different brackets, the bracket I have the OE one on the 302s with the built in mount for the airpump has the alternator hanging down under the bracket.  I would have to double check as its been a while since I looked at my truck but I do know my bracket bolts to the head and I dont believe the alternator would swing back far enough on the adjuster arm to contact the alternator mount itself.

But still, I will be running the 130A 3G as it seems to be about my best choice for an upgrade.  I also settled on the 8.25" spacing only recently have I begun to wonder on the 7" spacing since I recently have confirmation that the 1G units on our trucks were 7" spacing.  Still I probably would go with the 8.25" spacing anyways as it would still fit properly and the 8.25" spacing seems to be a bit more common when it comes to the 130A units.

Rusty_S85 wrote

Now I know its been stated that you cant get any real belt adjustment out of the 95A on our trucks....

Wrong, wrong, wrong....

There's no way to adjust the 148mm body because it is too wide when combined with a 3.5" radius pivot.
No one ever said you can't use a 95A 3G with stock mounts.

But few are going to 'upgrade' to a 3G and deliberately hobble their idle charging and headspace by using a 95A version.

Rusty_S85 wrote

I probably would go with the 8.25" spacing anyways as it would still fit properly and the 8.25" spacing seems to be a bit more common when it comes to the 130A units.

Not true at all.

Any Taurus,Sable, Lincoln 3.0l V-6 has the 7" spacing needed for the EFI Windsor or later 7.5 polygroove bracket.

I don't know what the sales numbers were between 3.0 & 3.8l, but I think there's no problem finding the 7".
You just have to know which one to ask for.

ArdWrknTrk wrote

Rusty_S85 wrote

I probably would go with the 8.25" spacing anyways as it would still fit properly and the 8.25" spacing seems to be a bit more common when it comes to the 130A units.

Not true at all.

Any Taurus,Sable, Lincoln 3.0l V-6 has the 7" spacing needed for the EFI Windsor or later 7.5 polygroove bracket.

I don't know what the sales numbers were between 3.0 & 3.8l, but I think there's no problem finding the 7".
You just have to know which one to ask for.

I didnt mean there was a problem finding the 7" 130A units I was saying the 8.25" 130A units seem to be more common.  the one that you cant find is the 8.25" 95A unit as those dont exist anymore apparently.

Probably came on a '95 4.9.

John, while looking at harness plugs (per our convo) I realized that Gary had mentioned the 351HO use a relay to put power to the choke.
You're showing C233
So, I think mystery solved!  

ETA:


I want to mention to Gary that looking at the upgrades->3G->choke, page you really should point out that a OEM Motorcraft (single bullet, 7V) choke coil is completely interchangeable with a Holley 12V 2 spade choke coil.
So not only can you swap your stock coil into an aftermarket Holley, but you can forget about any of that relay garbage mentioned under the 'choke' tab.

Yes, after studying my harness again and matching it to the electrical schematic, I see that now. BTW, my Carb is an Edelbrock, which I think is also 12V. Regardless, I should be in the good, correct?

Jim - Good point.  I plan to do some website work Sunday watching a football game, so hope to include that info.

John - Jein.  The Edelbrock choke was designed to run on 12v but the choke/stator wire puts out more like 7v.  And while at first blush it wouldn't seem that would work, it actually will.  I did it on Rusty for a while.  But it takes longer to come off so you can't set it as "hard".

The best way is to use that 7v to pull in a relay to put full battery voltage to the choke.

ArdWrknTrk wrote

John, while looking at harness plugs (per our convo) I realized that Gary had mentioned the 351HO use a relay to put power to the choke.
You're showing C233
So, I think mystery solved!  

ETA:


I want to mention to Gary that looking at the upgrades->3G->choke, page you really should point out that a OEM Motorcraft (single bullet, 7V) choke coil is completely interchangeable with a Holley 12V 2 spade choke coil.
So not only can you swap your stock coil into an aftermarket Holley, but you can forget about any of that relay garbage mentioned under the 'choke' tab.

Why would you need the relay for the choke if you are coming off the stator on the 3G?

When I was still looking at carb I was looking at using the stator to power my choke coil directly but then I decided on the aftermarket Summit carb that uses the Holley 12V choke coil and decided on a relay using the stator as a trigger, now with Holley EFI I just wont be using any of that but would be repurposing the planned choke relay as a ignition relay for the Holley EFI Key hot.

The choke relay is already there Rusty.
Why not use it to provide 12V thru fuselink AX?
I'm pretty sure the Edelbrock choke is wound the opposite way as Motorcraft.
But I suppose you could pull the coil out and flip it over if the diameter is the same.