1985F20 SuperCab "REDRUM"

I like that plan - save for the possibility of the Powermaster.  I am NOT a fan of those alternators and that's because they don't sell parts for them.  You are supposed to send them in for repair.  Yeah, sure, when mine goes out in the back of beyond I'll wait for it to be shipped both ways and repaired.  

When I got BB the Powermaster failed.  So I called them and discovered the above.  Scott now has that one, but it took me several years to find someone who would take it.  

Now I'm running a stock 130A 3G, which I can get at any parts store.  However, I have nothing against mod'ing the 3G for more current 'cause you can still downgrade to get home if that one fails.  In fact, I've already done that for Dad's truck.

As for the power distribution box itself, I'm running a '95 F-series PDB and it houses a number of those relays and fuses.  But Scott/kramtocs is running an aftermarket box, which might be easier.

And I replaced the fuse links with fuses:

Ckt 37, which was Fuse Link M to the main fuse box in the cab, has a 60A fuse

Ckt 38, which was Fuse Link L to the headlight switch and some fuses, has a 20A fuse

Ckt 37, which was Fuse Link S to the fuel pump, has a 20A fuse

I did something very similar for my truck, it's wiring was in terrible shape and I was installing a bunch of new stuff (custom dashboard, stereo/amp, transmission controller, etc.). I chose to use an aluminum plate, for corrosion resistance.

One thing you should consider on your relay trigger wire is whether you want only hot in run, or hot in run and start. That will of course depend on the accessories you add. For example, my transmission controller requires power in both start and run.

You kind of implied that you want to control the headlights through this arrangement, but that will not allow the headlights to be on in key off position, which the factory setup would allow. Maybe that's what you want, but if you want to follow the factory setup more closely, you can just get a headlight relay harness separate from the rest of your relay board stuff. Then it would follow the factory electrical design, but take the load off the headlight switch and the old wiring. That's what I've done on my truck. Such harnesses are pretty cheap and readily available. Here's an example (not sure this is the one I have on my truck).

https://www.ebay.com/itm/124148130601?_trkparms=ispr%3D1&hash=item1ce7ce2329:g:eggAAOSwHNhej5DM&amdata=enc%3AAQAGAAACsPYe5NmHp%252B2JMhMi7yxGiTJkPrKr5t53CooMSQt2orsSxXDXcCydCuSj2Tq2S%252F3GnmYdmgMU94XLgjPGlAD7MtmMagc5M7RN%252FEdOAhcX%252BcmEbNKU7bz02t4s%252FpwW8Frvbo7MrO6BSTLqUBIqo0p4yFmmolG5mD4RWQxz8u1na98B4%252B708yJ9Zd7IbW0qkOn%252BFUQOI3E8ktDi82iyvgZzeLfWT4cUcaHoCTFRZHZpKs2LI8DsvHJIUvfK3Dg%252FZ%252FqLFWaFOEOG8ErpzzkcBSxL10NhxuK5EI9Hnts2VUdqkwIdkD%252F%252FxxjpYiPPwAhxVSUPE%252FMZycDH7SqYAqg5%252BW6hEwPJJkDqh40kPtm2dLbVUh%252FARv2oa%252BC3JR2CV7Yl4wWXXxURIdNjTtpTkssTLpXSvVbCxoEcxzewBb0rYSGR529kfzL2Qz16QtAJKEzo%252FDYJoUil9HRtG662jYH7Zy7rX9CGzML9EI4h%252FkAwa2tE5w3Sq0jGiEmUeN%252BGumeUKKKy%252FAD952sHujTzsFIJf5IwTQWcqFMEbiGLm%252BQIaugXn40Wa8QbvoMj9PMAjVBHrD3Bbc4bty65tzG18prG1ZhrSOnAdKyzNUSblryY4COMFbDkVF%252BPemEptRTuGBdgZl4%252FcCMesnWlVKfRumRFi9%252Bd1zFx5dVnfrvpLQsoJexBeOMl38PQ%252BbmGxh9XXNIHrXQ8QxqJCbmDLxKRLHnAbQNCdYp2dyQJAV2NB5Hkh0I5CXB8bWQn14dBNqNPpBeh5nGPHU1is9CsXq%252BnRkbAFYMm8TT5bdXaxKSkC9%252FjVtv%252FGSY7GwQm4DygqdqMqNbImrDPawno2XNuxTrvOkMy%252BIuANyQ3c181UD1RsGlHPCeGk63p0VmbKMuuvipXcJ7GSPJ2GSjUcbs67PKig3uzRGg4iU4%253D%7Cclp%3A2334524%7Ctkp%3ABFBMzuLk8c1f

If helpful --

https://forum.garysgaragemahal.com/Factory-wiring-locations-for-adding-additional-circuits-tp69894.html

My aluminum plate mounting pads:

Passenger side starts here: https://forum.garysgaragemahal.com/The-Camano-Experience-tp35327p51239.html

Driver side: https://forum.garysgaragemahal.com/The-Camano-Experience-tp35327p57525.html
    There is now another relay box in the empty spot

kramttocs wrote

If helpful --

https://forum.garysgaragemahal.com/Factory-wiring-locations-for-adding-additional-circuits-tp69894.html

My aluminum plate mounting pads:

Passenger side starts here: https://forum.garysgaragemahal.com/The-Camano-Experience-tp35327p51239.html

Driver side: https://forum.garysgaragemahal.com/The-Camano-Experience-tp35327p57525.html
    There is now another relay box in the empty box

This is exactly what I will be doing!  Thanks!

Modernizing the wiring was my favorite part of redoing the 86. A lot of little things you can do to make a big difference.
Looking forward to seeing how it turns out.

The Powermasters aren't that bad...OK, I got a bad starter out of the box... and a bad alternator out of the box... and paid for diagnostics, shipping, and a new alternator...

Even after all that though, now that they are both working great I do really like them. I would definitely recommend buying from Summit as they have excellent customer service if you happen to need it.

kramttocs wrote

Modernizing the wiring was my favorite part of redoing the 86. A lot of little things you can do to make a big difference.
Looking forward to seeing how it turns out.

The Powermasters aren't that bad...OK, I got a bad starter out of the box... and a bad alternator out of the box... and paid for diagnostics, shipping, and a new alternator...

Even after all that though, now that they are both working great I do really like them. I would definitely recommend buying from Summit as they have excellent customer service if you happen to need it.

I run a 140A powermaster on my 1988 Suzuki Samurai.  I had a misalignment and cracked the front case, they ran diagnostics and sold me a refurb for like $80 and were extremely responsive via email and phone.

Here is a very preliminary schematic I threw together in Visio instead of working since it's well after quitting time.  I'm sure I'll figure out more circuits to add.



For the factory headlight wiring I plan on using a male H4 connector to plug into the factory headlight wires at the passenger headlight, then run a new harness to both bulbs.  This is what I did on my Samurai and it worked great.

I like the wiring diagram.  And I agree with plugging into the headlight harness.

But, I don't agree with what I think you are planning on the starter.  If you are planning to run a relay in the PDB to directly pull in the starter I think you are going to have problems.  I did that initially and ran into problems of the starter chattering.  By that I mean it came in, dropped out, and came in again all in a few milliseconds.  Sounded horrible.

So I called Powermaster since I'm running one of their starters and whomever I drew as a tech said NO!!!!  Do NOT use a cube relay.  Pull it in with the fender-mounted Ford relay.  (Those weren't the exact words, but pretty close and the emphasis was there.)  I rewired to use a fender-mounted relay and the problem was solved.

And, by the way, I'm not saying Powermaster doesn't make good stuff.  Just that I want to be able to replace the alternator with something off the shelf or from a local salvage w/o rewiring, and that won't work with their alternator.  But it can work with their starter.

Sorry, I wasn't clear in my diagram.  The starter solenoid shown is the stock one for the truck.  I just used the same symbol as the rest to show where the connection point would be for the relay wiring.

kramttocs wrote

Modernizing the wiring was my favorite part of redoing the 86. A lot of little things you can do to make a big difference.
Looking forward to seeing how it turns out.

The Powermasters aren't that bad...OK, I got a bad starter out of the box... and a bad alternator out of the box... and paid for diagnostics, shipping, and a new alternator...

Even after all that though, now that they are both working great I do really like them. I would definitely recommend buying from Summit as they have excellent customer service if you happen to need it.

You wouldn't happen to know what Powermaster you're running do you? I'm likely to go 3G, but I don't know what ear spacing I have (460 Vbelt) and it's been hard to get out to the shop lately.

I agree - Powermaster support was top notch when I dealt with them.

Originally (for a short time) I had the Ford Upgrade at 150A. 57140 with a 1V.
When that bit the dust and I sent it in I asked if I could upgrade to the 3G and pay the difference. So now I am running the 577591 with a 1V.

This is the large frame but 7" between the ears vs 8".

The bracket is an L&L bracket. It's the only bracket I've used with the Powermaster since I swapped the original air pump monster bracket during the engine rebuild and it had the 2G alt prior to that.
The L&L is a great bracket but not without alignment flaws. For both alts I had to play around quite a bit with washers on the L&L bracket to get the belt lined up right.
With the 7" 3GI did have to grind a little on one arm to clear the 3G on initial belt install. This wasn't needed on the Ford Upgrade.

Jim also has the L&L bracket with an 8" and didn't have to grind on it.

Every now and then I'd get a little squeal on startup from the alt belt. I swapped the Powermaster 1V to the L&L 2V and haven't had an issue since (still just one belt). The L&L is narrower so likely gripping better.

Here some posts on it all: https://forum.garysgaragemahal.com/The-Camano-Experience-tp35327p102055.html

kramttocs wrote

I agree - Powermaster support was top notch when I dealt with them.

Originally (for a short time) I had the Ford Upgrade at 150A. 57140 with a 1V.
When that bit the dust and I sent it in I asked if I could upgrade to the 3G and pay the difference. So now I am running the 577591 with a 1V.

This is the large frame but 7" between the ears vs 8".

The bracket is an L&L bracket. It's the only bracket I've used with the Powermaster since I swapped the original air pump monster bracket during the engine rebuild and it had the 2G alt prior to that.
The L&L is a great bracket but not without alignment flaws. For both alts I had to play around quite a bit with washers on the L&L bracket to get the belt lined up right.
With the 7" 3GI did have to grind a little on one arm to clear the 3G on initial belt install. This wasn't needed on the Ford Upgrade.

Jim also has the L&L bracket with an 8" and didn't have to grind on it.

Every now and then I'd get a little squeal on startup from the alt belt. I swapped the Powermaster 1V to the L&L 2V and haven't had an issue since (still just one belt). The L&L is narrower so likely gripping better.

Here some posts on it all: https://forum.garysgaragemahal.com/The-Camano-Experience-tp35327p102055.html

Interesting!  thanks for the information, I'll have a look at both of those.  I might have to break down and pull mine to measure.  I still have the smog bracket and don't want to be dealing with an aftermarket unless I have to for that.  I would like to just drop it into the smog bracket and go.

I have been working my way through your build thread.  I just started at the beginning and found it amusing that you bought it on Camano Island.  I live in Marysville WA which is really close to there.

Oh really!? That is funny. I should have you be on the lookout for an old Marysville Ford keychain or somesuch
Never been there personally but seems like a great place to live nature and weather-wise so I am envious.


If keeping the smog bracket (you have to in WA, right?), then measuring would be a good call to be safe.
I did find this post from Jim: https://forum.garysgaragemahal.com/Alternator-replace-advice-please-tp30205p30206.html
So sounds like the 8.25" is required with that bracket.

ArdWrknTrk wrote

You have V-belts so there's no need to grind anything, that's for serpentine brackets.
You will still need to flatten the adjuster arm because the 3G mount ears are thicker.
You will also need the 8.25" mounting ears because the 7" will not allow the alternator to adjust.

My truck had dual smog pumps and no belt layout change was needed.
The stock belt fits fine, that's what I used until I went to an L&L swap bracket.

Back off the AIR pump adjuster and get that belt out of the way first.
If the pivot bolt is seized in the alternator there is no easy way to remove the alternator.

Either cut the casting along the length of the bolt in two places and remove the alternator sideways, or drill a hole in the high side and drop some hydrochloric acid in there to eat away the corrosion.
(be careful of eyes and lungs if you go this route)

If you really want a 90A 3G alternator you will have to find one in a '93-'95 pickup....

F1PU-10346-DA
F3HT-10300-GB

kramttocs wrote

Oh really!? That is funny. I should have you be on the lookout for an old Marysville Ford keychain or somesuch
Never been there personally but seems like a great place to live nature and weather-wise so I am envious.


If keeping the smog bracket (you have to in WA, right?), then measuring would be a good call to be safe.
I did find this post from Jim: https://forum.garysgaragemahal.com/Alternator-replace-advice-please-tp30205p30206.html
So sounds like the 8.25" is required with that bracket.

ArdWrknTrk wrote

You have V-belts so there's no need to grind anything, that's for serpentine brackets.
You will still need to flatten the adjuster arm because the 3G mount ears are thicker.
You will also need the 8.25" mounting ears because the 7" will not allow the alternator to adjust.

My truck had dual smog pumps and no belt layout change was needed.
The stock belt fits fine, that's what I used until I went to an L&L swap bracket.

Back off the AIR pump adjuster and get that belt out of the way first.
If the pivot bolt is seized in the alternator there is no easy way to remove the alternator.

Either cut the casting along the length of the bolt in two places and remove the alternator sideways, or drill a hole in the high side and drop some hydrochloric acid in there to eat away the corrosion.
(be careful of eyes and lungs if you go this route)

If you really want a 90A 3G alternator you will have to find one in a '93-'95 pickup....

F1PU-10346-DA
F3HT-10300-GB

I can keep an eye out for sure.  The weather is nice out this way for sure.  Never too hot, never too cold, at least not for long.

No smog required here, it used to be required on vehicles less than 21 years old, but they just squashed it entirely.  My truck is originally from Cali so it has the smog bracket, but the pumps were gone when I got it.  I'm just trying to replace as little as possible on it.

I'll be digging through that post and if I can get out to the garage tonight I'll pull the alt again to measure.

I decided to just go ahead and order an alternator from db electric.  Went with one from a taurus with the 3.8L. 8.25" ear spacing based off of that other post info since I have V-belts.

I also have the connector coming from Amazon so provided I can actually get out to the garage sometime to do the work I should be able to do all the wiring in one shot.

Bonus is I'll get to play with my new hydrolic crimpers that I got for Christmas.

I've been tempted to build my own inductive current sense circuit to try and maintain the ammeter operation, but tune it so that full scale is lower say 30A.  Still mulling designs around in my head for that one.

I think you’ll be happy with that alternator.

But why would you limit the ammeter’s sensing to 30A?  So you can see if things get out of balance?

I had an alternator quit and was using so little current that I didn’t notice it - until I turned the headlights on. So, as long as you allow full current to flow but have the ammeter show full scale with 30A you might be able to detect failure.

Correct. I would limit to 30A just to be able to see more deflection from accessories.  I'll have a voltmeter too so that I can watch for catastrophic failures.

It would be full current flow through 2AWG and then a smaller gauge wire, probably 18AWG wrapped around the main wire some number of times so that the current in the main wire induces a voltage in the wire wrapped around it.

That voltage can be gained up by an operational amplifier and fed to the ammeter as a voltage (going off the table you have in documentation).  If the op-amp has dual supplies then it will be able to swing above and below ground to allow bidirectional measurement.

I haven't put pencil to paper for any of this yet so I don't have the intricacies down, just spit balling.

In some ways that would be superior to the voltmeter since the voltmeter has the wrong scale on it.  On the other hand, I enjoy watching my Rocketman voltmeter as it tells me a lot about the regulator.  For instance, normally the voltage comes up into the low 14's after startup and then settles down to 13.9 on a long drive.  But today it went up to 14.5v right after startup after the truck sat outside at 15F.  But after a bit it came down to 13.9V.

Anyway, an ammeter powered by an op amp could be pretty cool.  The output wouldn't have to be linear.  Maybe you could set it up so that it would go full scale at the full output of the alternator, but show significant movement at low current - enough to alert you if the alternator goes out?

Made it out to the junkyard today.  They had one 83 Bronco that had been stripped pretty clean but it still had the seatbelt receivers and the plastics were in good shape.  I tried to grab the belts too but the bolts were too rusted and stripped right out.

I was able to snag one belt from an 89 F250 supercab that had captains and it mounted in the same location as best I could tell.  At least in terms of where the retractor went.  I plan on extending it fully and taking a measurement to compare to the stock ones I have.

I tried to get both belts from the 89 but, again, one bolt stripped out and I had no way to remove it once that happened.  I really need to get a cordless impact driver.

The belt from the 89 is made by TRW according to the receiver that I also grabbed.  I plan on measuring and comparing the buckles between bendix and trw to see if they'll work together.  The TRW latched well with the Bronco recievers which are Allied if I remember right.

Worst case I'll try to extract the belts to savage the plastics.

I also grabbed the cluster trim which was in excellent condition.  I still have to take pictures of all the bits so those will follow in another post.