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1984 Bronco build thread

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Gary Lewis

Re: 1984 Bronco build thread

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John - Thanks for those tips. Doing those kinds of things gets the creative juices flowing and it is amazing what you can come up with given the right tools and lots of bits and pieces.

You mentioned using a Dremel to reduce the size of an outer race, but I've found that placing the race on the bearing and then holding the race up to the bench grinder using the bearing to let it turn takes off just a little bit of the race and lets you use it to press the new one in. So there are lots of ways to do things, you just have to think through it and use what is at hand.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

StraightSix

Re: 1984 Bronco build thread

Gary,
its also a great reason to hang on to a pile of old bearing races, bearing cups and a variety of little "bits". a shoe box full of that stuff can be a great asset.

1984 Bronco, mild built 300-6, Np435, 3.55 gears, 8.8 rear with Eaton TrueTrac, D44 TTB front, 31" tires, Duraspark II, Offy C, EFI manifolds, Holley 390, No AC, 3G alternator, front receiver

Gary Lewis

Re: 1984 Bronco build thread

Administrator

Yep! I have quite a few old races, etc. They seem to come in really handy when pressing things in.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

ArdWrknTrk

Re: 1984 Bronco build thread

Administrator

In reply to this post by StraightSix

Horrid Fate also has a $10 steel seal driver set that is gold for anyone who owns a hydraulic press.

I usually poke through my big sockets (front axle and the like) looking for something that fits.

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

Gary Lewis

Re: 1984 Bronco build thread

Administrator

One of my front axle sockets has been turned down in the lathe about .020" to serve as a driver.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

StraightSix

Re: 1984 Bronco build thread

In reply to this post by ArdWrknTrk

dont forget large male pipe nipples and female black iron pipe nipples from the plumbing section while we are at it!

I've heard of people welding a bead around the inside of a bearing cup, causing the cup to contract and then be easy to extract. has anyone ever tried this or seen it done?

1984 Bronco, mild built 300-6, Np435, 3.55 gears, 8.8 rear with Eaton TrueTrac, D44 TTB front, 31" tires, Duraspark II, Offy C, EFI manifolds, Holley 390, No AC, 3G alternator, front receiver

ArdWrknTrk

Re: 1984 Bronco build thread

Administrator

I've run a hot bead on many a bearing race.... and it does work a treat!

On my old BMW motorcycle it was the only way to get the lower headstock race out.
It literally fell out as it was cooling off.

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

StraightSix

Re: 1984 Bronco build thread

My friend has an extra NP435 input retainer with bearing cup still in place, but the casting is broken so the whole thing is trash. We will try welding a bead around the inside with my miller ac machine to see what happens. Seems Like a great trick.

my transmission is all but assembled. We dont have enough shims for the 3rd gear/3rd gear synchro fit so Im waiting on those in the mail. I would be amazed if there is more than 1.5 hours of work let, including making my homemade rebuild tag that Ive been making a practice of hanging on stuff I rebuild. I would not hesitate to build another np435, or any other 4 speed manual gear box. I would say this is at least an order of magnitude less involved than hanging a gear set, and you dont even have to spend two weeks rolling around in the floor to get it done.

I also got my new throttle bracket drawn up and sent off to a laser cut/bend/fab shop in town. And the new gage panel. hopefully Ill hear back about a quote on these in the next few days.

the slot in the throttle bracket is how the whole thing is held on to the manifold. its held on by two bolts just below the throttle on the carb, for you 300 guys, they are the two through holes in the offy manifold for holding the heat plat to the bottom. the two reliefs are for casing features on the intake. this one features space for two throttle cables side by side, that way I can get my cruise control working again. it worked when I bought the truck but has been disabled since last November.

the gage panel will house the AFR from innovative as will as a mechanical oil pressure gage. It will also be the mounting point for a mechanical choke cable, at least in the short term. the whole thing will mount on the bottom edge of the dash in the location of my original rear glass heat control switch.

I wont be opening the transfer case until the transmission is done so Ill be working on "mini projects" like cleaning the engine bay, fixing up my "powered by ford" valve cover and repairing my alternator harness (heat off the exh melted the plug, harness side only. alt seems to be fine). probably need to come up with a home brew heat shield for the alt while Im at it.

finally, my buddy and I made a road side rescue last night. a motorist had lost a tire and their scissor jack collapsed about the time they got the bad wheel off. luckily the rotor was sitting on the recently removed wheel so we were able to use my bottle jack to get him off the ground and rolling on the spare. Dont trust those cheap OE scissor jacks! the only good place for them is in the recycle pile!

I hope everyone is doing great! thanks for reading, stay safe.

1984 Bronco, mild built 300-6, Np435, 3.55 gears, 8.8 rear with Eaton TrueTrac, D44 TTB front, 31" tires, Duraspark II, Offy C, EFI manifolds, Holley 390, No AC, 3G alternator, front receiver

StraightSix

Re: 1984 Bronco build thread

Hi Guys!
While junkyard hunting with my friend I found an awesome "powered by ford" style 300 valve cover in almost perfect condition. It will replace my "ford oval" style valve cover on the engine for my build. Im not normally one for cosmetic stuff, but that powered by ford valve cover on an inline 6 screams "greatest generation going to the moon, welcome to the 60s" to me. A cool homage to the fact that the engine is essentially 60s tech.

in the meantime, Im stumped by another piece of "60s tech". Im working on getting the shims correct for my synchros in the np435. for those who are unaware, they control the useable space between the front face of 3rd gear and the rear face of the input gear that the synchro mechanism "lives in". more shims, less space. less shimes, more space for the synchro mechanism on the shaft. I guess my confusion is multi tiered because I havent seen a very detailed description of the measurement methodology (and there seem to be two ways), and acceptable range for the measurement varies between .030' - .075' for the low end value and .070" and .095" for the high end value depending on the source of the information. as for the two ways to take the measurement - some manuals or instructions indicate that you measure between the rear face of the rear synchro cup and the front face of 3rd gear. the other method is to measure between the front face of the front synchro cup and the rear face of the input gear. in my mind, these measurements are quantifying the same thing.

I can probably muddle through picking out upper and lower tolerance values that I like, and Ill probably measure between the front face of the front synchro cup and the rear face of the input gear because I find that measurement easier to perform. the part Im really stuck on is how to position/prep the synchros for this measurement. most of the written instructions say in one way or another to compress the synchros and their cups together, with little expansion beyond that point. my ford shop manual provides absolutely no input or instructions on this, which seems like a big deal to me because the synchros and cups can vary in thickness as an assembly by.. I dont know, atleast .100" based on what exactly you do with them.

if anyone has further guidance on this problem, Id really appreciate the input. Thanks!

1984 Bronco, mild built 300-6, Np435, 3.55 gears, 8.8 rear with Eaton TrueTrac, D44 TTB front, 31" tires, Duraspark II, Offy C, EFI manifolds, Holley 390, No AC, 3G alternator, front receiver

Gary Lewis

Re: 1984 Bronco build thread

Administrator

I don't know what Ford shop manual you have, but have you looked at the excerpt we have on site: Documentation/Driveline/Transmissions/Manual Transmissions/NP435? It has the page below on measuring, showing both in the case as well as on the bench methods.

And later it says "When the input shaft end play has been established, re-check the synchronizer clearance. It should be 1.77-2.41mm (0.070-0.095 inch). Adjust, if required."

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

StraightSix

Re: 1984 Bronco build thread

Gary,
Thanks for doing some digging! My manual is the "David Graham edition" of the 1984 shop manual. It has the same verbiage and illustrations as the one here on the site but is clearly a different edition based on the formatting. I suppose my issue is that the length represented by the brackets around "synchronizer assembly" in the top picture in figure 9 is variable depending on your treatment of the synchro assembly. Im not sure if I need to press the synchro assembly together until everything "bottoms out" or if I need to align the edges of the cups with the inside faces of the synchros themselves (as I have seen someone do before), or perhaps something other than those options. unfortunately, that difference generates a fair deal of change when we are talking about thousandths or even ten-thousandths.

Thanks for taking some time to investigate!

1984 Bronco, mild built 300-6, Np435, 3.55 gears, 8.8 rear with Eaton TrueTrac, D44 TTB front, 31" tires, Duraspark II, Offy C, EFI manifolds, Holley 390, No AC, 3G alternator, front receiver

Gary Lewis

Re: 1984 Bronco build thread

Administrator

I've not rebuilt that transmission, so all I can tell you is what I read. Sorry.

But I would think that everything is supposed to fit together and "bottoms out", but that is just my thinking. And then you "MAINTAIN DOWNWARD PRESSURE ON INPUT SHAFT WHILE USING FEELER GAUGE". Just my guess.

As for investigating, it caused me to realize I'd used an old way of presenting that section on the website. So I took the time to update it and now it is much cleaner and clearer. Plus, I OCR'd the file so you can search it for terms. So it was all for good.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

StraightSix

Re: 1984 Bronco build thread

Ok Guys - I just got off the phone with a very Helpful transmission expert at Novak. His advice for synchro shims is as follows -
-measure for clearance between the rear face if 4rth gear and the front face of the 4rth gear synchro cup. this measurement is similar/equivalent to measuring between 3rd gear and the rear face of the rearmost synchro shim but is much easier to do.
-prepping/dressing the synchro cups to the synchros before measuring - the synchro cups need to be gently pressed onto the synchro mechanism until they start to generate light drag. this of course, is subjective in nature. once they begin to generate slight drag they are at the correct depth, but you also need to check that they are aren't crooked on the synchro rings. in other words, they don't need to be pushed farther/deeper on to the synchro ring on one side of the cup than the other. everything needs to be straight.
- I was advised that the gap between the front face of the 4rth gear synchro cup and the rear face of the 4rth gear should ideally be .040"-.050". this is slightly tighter than any OE manual spec Ive seen, however the dodge manual my friend has states something to the tune of .050"-.070". Im a little afraid of eating synchros by setting it all too tight, so Ill be aiming for as close to .050" as I can get, without being tighter than .050".

hopefully this can help someone down the road.

1984 Bronco, mild built 300-6, Np435, 3.55 gears, 8.8 rear with Eaton TrueTrac, D44 TTB front, 31" tires, Duraspark II, Offy C, EFI manifolds, Holley 390, No AC, 3G alternator, front receiver

StraightSix

Re: 1984 Bronco build thread

Hi Guys!
the transmission is done. In the end, it came down to needing either two or three shims for my synchos. My friend and I spent about 1/2 an hour trying to measure the gap and by the end of it we were only sure of two things. the first, this is a really subjective measurement and we couldn't agree on a number, the second, it was on the looser end of things with 2 shims and more "in the middle" with 3 shims. we decided to put it together both ways and conduct a shifting test to decide. 1st, 2nd, an R are pretty much guaranteed.. I dont know what you would have to do wrong to make those not work. 3rd and fourth on the other hand can be surprisingly finicky. In any case, the test procedure was to place the shifter in N, attempt to enter 3rd, put the shifter back in neutral, then rotate the input and output shafts to unlock the bound synchros. we repeated this 10 times each. Our cumulative success rate for 3rd between the two of us was 75%, and 95% for 4rth while using 3 shims. this was much better than 2 shims, so we put it together with 3.

Im banking on the fact that the input and output shafts will be spinning to help with shifting into 3rd, as well as synchro break in and being truly soaked in an oil bath instead of just wetted down. I would like for it to be practically 100% like 4rth, but we only have .015" shims, and I dont even think other options are available meaning that adjustments are somewhat coarse. I think it will be fine. It was a huge asset to have a friend over who knows the shifting characteristics of the transmission.

The tranny is on the garage floor under the bronco and the transfer case is on the work bench for cleanup and tear down. No news from the engine shop.

Ill keep you guys posted!

1984 Bronco, mild built 300-6, Np435, 3.55 gears, 8.8 rear with Eaton TrueTrac, D44 TTB front, 31" tires, Duraspark II, Offy C, EFI manifolds, Holley 390, No AC, 3G alternator, front receiver

Gary Lewis

Re: 1984 Bronco build thread

Administrator

I suspect you've done a more thorough job than most people do on them, and I'll bet it shifts nicely.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

StraightSix

Re: 1984 Bronco build thread

Thanks Gary. As Ive said atleast once before, your calm cool confidence helps more than you may know.

1984 Bronco, mild built 300-6, Np435, 3.55 gears, 8.8 rear with Eaton TrueTrac, D44 TTB front, 31" tires, Duraspark II, Offy C, EFI manifolds, Holley 390, No AC, 3G alternator, front receiver

Gary Lewis

Re: 1984 Bronco build thread

Administrator

Happy to help.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

StraightSix

Re: 1984 Bronco build thread

Hey guys! I just finished up the np208. Overall Id say it was easier than the transmission and the transmission was easier than the rear axle. There were no real surprises, read the shop manual and you will pretty much see it all. Pulling the old bearings out was easily the hardest part. Take really good detailed disassembly photos, youll be glad for it later.

The engine is going pretty slow :( Im going to swing by the shop tomorrow to check it out, hopefully there will finally be some progress. Im starting to get the "bronco blues" about how long its been out of comission but Im keeping that tempered with plenty of work to do. Next Ill focus on cutting out me new brackets and gage panels. If I have enough spare time I may rebuild my front hubs.

I hope everyone is doing great, staying safe, and enjoying the fall. -John

1984 Bronco, mild built 300-6, Np435, 3.55 gears, 8.8 rear with Eaton TrueTrac, D44 TTB front, 31" tires, Duraspark II, Offy C, EFI manifolds, Holley 390, No AC, 3G alternator, front receiver

Gary Lewis

Re: 1984 Bronco build thread

Administrator

John - Glad the t-case went so well. Mine turned out good, but I was nervous as I'd not done one before. But, they are fairly simple, so...

New gauge panels? Are you doing custom gauges?

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

StraightSix

Re: 1984 Bronco build thread

Just the AFR and mechanical oil pressure Gauge!

1984 Bronco, mild built 300-6, Np435, 3.55 gears, 8.8 rear with Eaton TrueTrac, D44 TTB front, 31" tires, Duraspark II, Offy C, EFI manifolds, Holley 390, No AC, 3G alternator, front receiver

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