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Year-To-Year Differences?

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Gary Lewis

Re: Year-To-Year Differences?

Administrator

Grumpin - I think the brochure is mistaken. It really boils down to which Ford publication you want to believe, but I'll put my money on the Master Parts Catalog instead of a sales brochure. (There are errors in the MPC, but don't try to tell Numberdummy that.

)

Anyway, the MPC has this listing for the headlight warning buzzer. There was only one used for the 1980 - 89 trucks according to this.

And this is from the 1986 EVTM showing the headlight warning buzzer was a one-piece unit with the key and seat belt buzzer.

So from what I can see there was only one unit from 1980 through '89, and it didn't chime. But I wouldn't stake my life on it.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

Rembrant

Re: Year-To-Year Differences?

Out of curiosity, another change I was wondering about was the smaller wheel bolt pattern...

Was that just the very early trucks? 1980-1981? And what dictated the difference? Was it manual and power brake differences?

Where's Fuzzface??...lol.

1994 F150 4x2 Flareside. 5.0 w/MAF, 4R70W, stock.
1984 F150 4X2 Flareside. Mild 302 w/ 5spd. Sold.
1980 F150 4X4 Flareside. 300i6 w/ 5spd. Sold in 2021.
1980 F100 4X2 Flareside. 351w/2bbl w/NP435. Sold in 1995

Gary Lewis

Re: Year-To-Year Differences?

Administrator

We did a lot of research on that issue back on FTE. And the upshot is that F100's with:

Manual brakes: 5 1/2" bolt pattern regardless of GVW

Power brakes from 4600 to 4700 GVW had a 4 1/2 bolt pattern

Power brakes from 5000 to 5100 GVW had a 5 1/2" bolt pattern

But this doesn't appear to be a year-to-year difference. Instead it is an oddity. In any event it needs to be documented better than we have it at this point. But I'm not sure where to put that. On the Bullnose FAQ's page on a tab for F100's?

On another topic, but closely associated to y2y, are engine specs. The dealer fact books usually, but not always, have horsepower and torque specs. And, the power numbers differ by application even within a year. So, what I'm thinking of doing is scanning the relevant info and creating a page for each engine to contain those pages. And, then in the spreadsheet each engine's entry will be a hotlink to the appropriate page.

And I'm sure that there are other things in the dealer fact books that could be pulled out the same way. Like transmission info. Colors? Etc?

Thoughts?

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Steve83

Re: Year-To-Year Differences?

Banned User

In reply to this post by Gary Lewis

Gary Lewis wrote

So from what I can see there was only one unit from 1980 through '89, and it didn't chime.

I've found at least 4, but I'd call them all buzzers - not chimes. They're at the top L & bottom R of this pic:

I probably still have those.

Gary Lewis

Re: Year-To-Year Differences?

Administrator

Interesting. While there was only one part number, which says to me that they operate the same, there may have been different manufacturers. Perhaps that accounts for the different look?

By the way, I'm not sure how you are inserting your icon pics, but you may be able to make them bigger by inserting this code in that generated: width="100%"

Here's the code generated for a pic, but I've removed the "<" and ">" from the front and back.
You can see the code I mentioned: nabble_img src="11215_Header.jpg" border="0"width="100%"/

As said, I don't know how you are doing it or if that will work. And you can play with the % to make them whatever you want.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Steve83

Re: Year-To-Year Differences?

Banned User

Gary Lewis wrote

...I'm not sure how you are inserting your icon pics...

I'm using the code beside the pics on the SMN pages, but I prefer to change it to show the thumbnail instead of a fullsize pic so your page loads faster, and it uses less of your bandwidth, and people only see the fullsize image if they want (by clicking the thumb), and so SMN counts those views.

This is a thumb:

This is FS:

This is original-size (which might be the same as FS for small pics):

You should see the codes beside the pic on the SMN page. For this BBS, I use the "Tag" text; for all others, I use the "Thumb" text.

Gary Lewis

Re: Year-To-Year Differences?

Administrator

Ok, you really know what you are doing so I'll leave you alone.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Gary Lewis

Re: Year-To-Year Differences?

Administrator

Guys, I need some feedback. PLEASE!

I now have the engine table on the Engine & Driveline tab on the Year-To-Year Differences page fleshed out enough that you can tell what my plans are. And while I probably have half of the work done, I'd sure like to know that the way I'm doing it is the best way we, collectively, can come up with.

So here are the things I'd like you to look at and,on which to provide feedback:

Engine hot links: All of the engines (left edge), except the 351HO, are hot-linked to the respective pages. Does that seem reasonable to you?

Readability: With a lot of experimentation I finally settled on scanning the pages from the books at high res (600 dpi) into a pdf. As you'll see, each page has some really small print and that was the only way I could make it legible for you. (And, like Dad used to say, the large print giveth and the small print taketh away.) They take a while to load, but that's the only way I can find to make them usable. But, are they?

Windsor: I've had the Windsor engines grouped together on one page for some time, but that may be an issue. Thoughts?

400: I'm not getting the spec's to load on this computer unless I click the popout/full page button, and then they come up. However, it works fine on my iPhone. (And, I can read everything quite well on it.) Are you getting the 400 spec's to load properly?

Anyway, PLEASE take a look and give me some feedback.

And, you'll see what I've been struggling with in regard to the notes, and why I had to resort to them on the table. But, I'd be ever so grateful if some of you would take the time to work through some (all?) of the notes vs my table and see if I did it correctly. I really would like to get this right, and it isn't the most straightforward thing.

THANKS IN ADVANCE!!!

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

85lebaront2

Re: Year-To-Year Differences?

Administrator

Same here, the 400 tab shows nothing unless I full screen it.

On you comments on the 400, I fully agree, if Ford had offered it with say 8.5:1 compression and a moderate size 4 barrel (anything except a 4300D) it would have been a great engine. I had a neighbor who had a 1977 F150 with the 351M, did everything except say "oink" when you stood on it.

351 engines, original 351 was the Windsor block, and it was built in 2 barrel versions in most cars and 4 barrel in Mustangs, Cougars, Torinos and Montegos. In 1970, the 351C was introduced as a replacement for the 4 barrel Windsor plant engine, at which time that engine had a W appended. I had always heard the large bell housing 351 called a Modified as it was the same block as the 400 and was able to use the same large transmissions as the 385 series engines (429/460). It also allowed the same perches to be used. Specific example, 1971 full size Ford, base engine 300 6cyl. optional, 302, 351W all of which used a common flywheel housing. Move up to the 351M, 400 and 429, again same flywheel housing and same perches. In the full size Mercury line, no 6 cyl but 302, 351W or 351M, 400 and 429. this allowed almost as much interchangeability as brand C, and a whole lot more than Chrysler or the rest of GM. GM did come out with some "universal" case Hydra-matics, drilled for both the Chevy and BOP patterns (dowel pins are the same for both).

The early 70s were not a good time for Ford engines, in order to meet the emission standards, the 351M/400 engines were jetted so lean they barely ran, and still got Ford in hot water over suspicious test methods. The super lean mixture does not necessarily help gas mileage, in fact it can hurt it if it is so lean it misfires or the vacuum is so weak the advance will not pull in or drops out with very small throttle additions.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

"Getting old is inevitable, growing up is optional" Darth Vader 1986 F350 460 converted to MAF/SEFI, E4OD 12X3 1/2 rear brakes, traction loc 3:55 gear, 160 amp 3G alternator Wife's 2011 Flex Limited Daily Driver 2009 Flex Limited with factory tow package Project car 1986 Chrysler LeBaron convertible 2.2L Turbo II, modified A413

Gary Lewis

Re: Year-To-Year Differences?

Administrator

Ok, I'll upload the files again tomorrow for the 400. Really strange that it works on my phone but not my Windows devices.

As for the 400's power, or lack thereof, when you saddle it with the same size 2bbl as the 351W and M had, there's no way it can perform. Then consider the 8.0 compression ratio. Even the 351W had 8.3.

Brandon's friend James has an '80 F350 w/a 400. He was replacing the timing set on it and added an Eddy intake and just a 600 CFM carb. Said it fully doubled the power.

But I'm not sure I agree with you on the 351M. Instead of a pig I think Dad's was more like a dead toad. When you step on a pig at least you'll get a squeal. But if you step on a dead toad nothing happens. I was used to Dad's engine and then I bought Rusty. Forged pistons with more like 9:1 compression and some RV cam. Huge difference, both in power as well as economy. Dad's truck got 10.5 MPG with the C6, and Rusty got about 12.5 MPG. Essentially same truck, exactly the same tranny (I swapped it), but a well built engine.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

85lebaront2

Re: Year-To-Year Differences?

Administrator

Try a 1971 Mercury 429 with a 2 barrel, I think it was the 1.21" Autolite. The desirable one was the 1966 Mercury 410 2 barrel, 1.33" Autolite, close to 500 CFM.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

Gary Lewis

Re: Year-To-Year Differences?

Administrator

I hesitate to continue this conversation because I REALLY NEED INPUT ON THE Y2Y PAGE!

But I can't resist - Olds put a 2bbl on the 455. I'll guess it was a 2GC, but you will know. Nor do I know how big it was. But I know that there wasn't much performance - my '58 Impala w/a 348 was too much for it. However, in a 442 w/a 4bbl was something entirely different. I'll bet the carb was the 800 CFM QJet. Anyway, my '69 Bee wasn't even rolling good before the 442 was across the intersection.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

85lebaront2

Re: Year-To-Year Differences?

Administrator

Then I will refrain from mentioning 383 MOPARs with a Stromberg WWC, or Pontiac 420E (421 with 2 barrel) or Lincoln 430s with Carter BBD 2 barrels.

Some bean counter's in Detroit decided a 2 barrel was great for fuel economy, sure if the engine was around 300 ci or less, how about the 1969 390s that only came with a 2 barrel, but would deliver 17-19 mpg in a 4000+ lb car.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

Gary Lewis

Re: Year-To-Year Differences?

Administrator

Glad you didn't mention them.

Had a '72 F250 w/a 2100 on it. With the camper on it there was no acceleration until the PV opened. But a 4bbl intake, ported to take a spreadbore, and a QJet solved that problem. Better MPG, better driveability, and better power.

Personally, 2bbls aren't the right config, unless it is a progressive 2bbl. A 4bbl is a much better arrangement with the small primaries and large secondaries - even if the secondaries have gross metering.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

grumpin

Re: Year-To-Year Differences?

I'll assume you fixed it. The 400 came up slow, but it came up after I scrolled down then back up, don't know if that's significant.

I won't mention that I had a 1972 Hurst/Olds 442, 455 and loaded, man I wish I had that car...

Dane
1986 F250HD SC XLT Lariat 4x4 460 C6-Sold
1992 Bronco XLT 4x4 351W E4OD
1998 GMC Sierra SLE K1500 350 4L60E
Arizona

85lebaront2

Re: Year-To-Year Differences?

Administrator

Gary, I was thinking about something this morning. The change date for the 460 exhaust, 2-85, might that also be the date for the EFI 302 introduction? Possibly some other changes effective 2-85 since Ford seemed to enjoy doing mid year changes.

Side note, saw a Bullnose at Pete's Used Parts yesterday, and due to information on this site, knew it was a 1980 or 1981 as it had F O R D on the hood and the early style grille (no emblem).

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

Gary Lewis

Re: Year-To-Year Differences?

Administrator

Bill - I can confirm that the change date for 460 exhausts was 2/85, although I seriously doubt it was that finite. See below. And it is entirely possible that 2/85 was used for other changeovers. I'll watch for that.

As for the FORD lettering on the 80/81 hoods, I'm glad the site is helpful. And as we get the Y2Y differences page(s) fleshed out we may be able to tell the difference between an 80 and an 81 at first blush. I doubt it, but you never know. "First blush" can't include instrument printed circuits. But at least we can look at the turn signal lenses and say if it is an early or late 81.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

85lebaront2

Re: Year-To-Year Differences?

Administrator

Gee, based on that chart Darth doesn't exist, no crew cabs listed.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

Gary Lewis

Re: Year-To-Year Differences?

Administrator

Bill - You missed the F250 label. Here are the F350 2wd charts. Unfortunately I don't have these on the website yet, but if I watch the baseball game tonight maybe I can get it on.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

85lebaront2

Re: Year-To-Year Differences?

Administrator

Ahh, ok. When you do get a chance I notice that there are some 88-89 listed W/O converter, I would love to see those parts lists. I had to have mine built non-catalyst for the EFI engine. BTW, it got a good workout yesterday, hauled the Konvertible back here on the tow dolly.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

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