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WHYDTYTT: What Have You Done To Your Truck Today?

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ArdWrknTrk

Re: WHYDTYTT: What Have You Done To Your Truck Today?

Administrator

Gary Lewis wrote

Will you do the bushings before the engine?

Engine *out* is about the only way I'd want to change them.

There is close to 800 lbs less weighing down on them (if you count the radiator/coolant, and the Zf being up on a jack)
... and I'll have access to both sides.

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

Gary Lewis

Re: WHYDTYTT: What Have You Done To Your Truck Today?

Administrator

Makes sense to me. And it is what I expected, but wasn't sure. Keep us posted on the progress.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

ArdWrknTrk

Re: WHYDTYTT: What Have You Done To Your Truck Today?

Administrator

I'll make a thread when, and if, any actual progress gets made.

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

85lebaront2

Re: WHYDTYTT: What Have You Done To Your Truck Today?

Administrator

In reply to this post by ArdWrknTrk

Jim, last time I looked, the 460 weight was given at 865 lbs, assuming that is the carbureted version with iron intake, even the EFI wouldn't be much less.

As for Darth, I had ordered what NPD listed as a complete lock set for a 1996 F-series since that is what the column and door locks came from. When I received it, the ignition lock was fine, door locks?? Maybe an E-series, anyway I sent them back. The reason for wanting to change them, I only had one key (not original) when I got them and the local ACE hardware's key machine cuts roughly 1/32" short so a key they make needs to be pulled back a little to work. After sending them back I called Kool Ford with the code on the ignition lock, they could not find that listed anywhere. I took the key and Darth up there and had him make me one new Ford key from the best side of the copy I had, worked perfectly! I told him go do one more, paid for them and now have two nice Ford keys.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

"Getting old is inevitable, growing up is optional" Darth Vader 1986 F350 460 converted to MAF/SEFI, E4OD 12X3 1/2 rear brakes, traction loc 3:55 gear, 160 amp 3G alternator Wife's 2011 Flex Limited Daily Driver 2009 Flex Limited with factory tow package Project car 1986 Chrysler LeBaron convertible 2.2L Turbo II, modified A413

ArdWrknTrk

Re: WHYDTYTT: What Have You Done To Your Truck Today?

Administrator

This post was updated on .

Well my aluminum intake probably weighs 40# less than the stocker, but we are still talking close to 1000# less on the front end with the engine out. And MUCH better access.

250's ride rough because of the very stiff reverse arch springs and the shackles being in front.
If I was ready to do the D60 swap I would use Sky's No Panhard RSK and be done with it, getting better turning radius in the process.

Right now I need to address the leaky oil pan and the ticking without a garage or driveway, or much downtime.
I think a 32k bottom end with the 7cc dish pistons and refurbished heads with some Scotty style exhaust porting would be a blessing.

I also need to address the drivers floor before salt season rolls around again.

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

Gary Lewis

Re: WHYDTYTT: What Have You Done To Your Truck Today?

Administrator

In reply to this post by 85lebaront2

Hmmm, 1000 lbs. And my 400 weighs 650 according to Tim. And puts out similar power - according to Tim. Said a week ago tomorrow - "I'm not 400 biased but I am Ford biased. And you can build a 400 to do anything a 460 will do." But, I have one of both so we shall see what I think when I get Dad's truck going. 😎

Bill - Even my local Ace Hardward can cut good keys for our trucks. I'd stay away from the place that makes the short ones.

Jim - That's an interesting approach on the springs. Do you know how much difference in ride that makes? How about in steering? Several here have suggested that input a lift kit on the front of Big Blue to even out the stance. And that 2" lift would be about right, and would lower the drawbar height for trailers. Hmmmm....

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

grumpin

Re: WHYDTYTT: What Have You Done To Your Truck Today?

Gary, I used to own a 1994 F250, with the 460. I bought it from my boss, he bought it brand new.

He had the "extra" leaf put in the front, I believe Ford had them for the "sagging" front ends.

My 1986 is stock, and I like it better for two reasons:

1) I'm getting more crippled up and it was harder to climb into and work on. I put some Carr Hoop steps on it also.

2) When I would go across the ruts in the streets that are made in the winter around here, I would have to reach down on the floor and pick up my teeth!

It rode rough.

Just some thoughts.

Might have to go with the Hoop steps on the 86, it came with Carr Giant steps I think they call them, (they are higher) even got supports that weren't installed, and bolts, nuts and washers from Carr at no charge!

Dane
1986 F250HD SC XLT Lariat 4x4 460 C6-Sold
1992 Bronco XLT 4x4 351W E4OD
1998 GMC Sierra SLE K1500 350 4L60E
Arizona

Nothing Special

Re: WHYDTYTT: What Have You Done To Your Truck Today?

In reply to this post by ArdWrknTrk

ArdWrknTrk wrote

....250's ride rough because of the very stiff reverse arch springs and the shackles being in front....

Also 250s have the leaf springs trying to keep the lower ends of the traction beams from moving from side-to-side while the traction beam pivot points force the lower ends to move side-to-side as the suspension cycles. That stiffens things up as well.

Bob
Sorry, no '80 - '86 Ford trucks
"Oswald": 1997 F-250HD crew cab short box, 460, E4OD, 4.10 gears
"Pluto": 1971 Bronco, 302, NV3550 5 speed, Atlas 4.3:1 transfer case, 33" tires
"the motorhome": 2015 E-450-based 28' class C motorhome, 6.8L V-10
"the Dodge": 2007 Dodge 2500, 6.7L Cummins

ArdWrknTrk

Re: WHYDTYTT: What Have You Done To Your Truck Today?

Administrator

The pivots locate the springs in an arc.
This is REAL hard on bushings and the shackles.
The springs (kinda) locate the beams front to back, but remember they are negative arch springs and the shackles *is at the front*

This is why you get that crazy toe in when you back into a parking space.

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

Gary Lewis

Re: WHYDTYTT: What Have You Done To Your Truck Today?

Administrator

Y'all are telling me that Sky's Front Shackle Reversal kit, which requires the Tough Country brackets, makes a big difference in the ride? Or, it is supposed to because the geometry is all messed up w/o it?

At $470 before tax and shipping, that seems like quite a bit to speculate on. Yes, Big Blue rides roughly, but w/o the sway bars it isn't too bad. (It is awful with the sway bars.) And, to tell the truth I've not driven it much since I added the winch, front receiver, and auxiliary battery, which may have helped the ride some. So, are there other benefits besides the ride quality?

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

ArdWrknTrk

Re: WHYDTYTT: What Have You Done To Your Truck Today?

Administrator

This post was updated on .

I said I'd only do it with a D60 swap, so no drop pivots required.

The positive arch 350 springs ride MUCH better than the stiff 2 leaf pack of the 250 and the solid axle does not twist the springs every time the truck encounters a crack in the road.

Shackles and bushings should last much longer.

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

Gary Lewis

Re: WHYDTYTT: What Have You Done To Your Truck Today?

Administrator

Would I have to replace the springs? It doesn't look like I would, and since the springs are brand new I don't want to do that.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Nothing Special

Re: WHYDTYTT: What Have You Done To Your Truck Today?

In reply to this post by ArdWrknTrk

I'll agree with ArdWrknTrk. In fact I've heard that originally the reverse shackle manufacturers said that their kits didn't work with the TTB suspension, and later said you could combine them with no changes to either their design or the TTB. Speculation was that it was just a marketing realization that they were turning away sales and that they still didn't really play well together.

There's only one guy I've ever heard who seems to think that the leaf-sprung TTB is a good suspension. I think it was '89F2urd on FTE. I'm not saying that to say he's wrong because he's the only one. But if you want to make the F-250 TTB work better it's probably best to talk to someone who actually believes that it can be made to work well. Otherwise most people suggest a solid axle swap, reverse shackles and SuperDuty springs (U code?) for the best ride in a 4WD F-250.

Nothing Special

Re: WHYDTYTT: What Have You Done To Your Truck Today?

In reply to this post by Gary Lewis

Gary Lewis wrote

Would I have to replace the springs? It doesn't look like I would, and since the springs are brand new I don't want to do that.

With a solid axle swap? Absolutely! F-250 springs need to be stiffer than F-350 springs because of the added leverage the traction beams have against the springs. F-250 springs with a solid axle will ride rougher than either a stock F-350 or a stock F-250.

ArdWrknTrk

Re: WHYDTYTT: What Have You Done To Your Truck Today?

Administrator

I think Gary is asking if he would have to change springs if he were to keep the TTB.

No.

Sky is the first and only (afaik) to offer a kit that fits 250's

The cross brace at the front helps eliminate the infamous steering box crack by tying the whole front of the frame together right behind the bumper.

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

Gary Lewis

Re: WHYDTYTT: What Have You Done To Your Truck Today?

Administrator

Yes, that's what I'm asking. As for the frame, it may be too late - I already have some pops and creaks that shouldn't be there. 🙈

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Nothing Special

Re: WHYDTYTT: What Have You Done To Your Truck Today?

In reply to this post by Gary Lewis

Gary Lewis wrote

Y'all are telling me that Sky's Front Shackle Reversal kit, which requires the Tough Country brackets, makes a big difference in the ride? Or, it is supposed to because the geometry is all messed up w/o it?....

Thinkin' on this a little more (in other words, I still don't have any personal experience to draw from but I'm still going to give you more of my opinions, or in still other words, let the 8-page micro-analysis continue...), the reason shackles at the front would give a worse ride is that with a positively arched spring as the front axle needs to move up when the tire hits a bump the leaf spring makes it move forward, jamming the tire into the bump, which means the tire needs to move up faster, which means it gets stuffed forward into the bump harder... It's a bad cycle. A reverse shackle kit in this situation would pull the tire back away from the bump as the axle moves up, which would make the bump less jarring.

On the other hand, if the leaf spring was flat, or negatively arched, then as the axle moves up it will not be pushed forward (flat spring) or will even be pulled backward (negative arch), softening the hit. So a reverse shackle kit would seem to be counter-productive, causing the problem of stuffing the tire into the bump rather than solving it. So unless a TTB F-250/350 has been lifted with positive arched springs, I think a reverse shackle kit would probably hurt the ride.

And that brings another thing to mind: ride height. I don't know for sure about on TTBs, but on solid axles reverse shackle kits are said to give about a 3" lift. That's great if you want a 3" lift, but for my daily driver that my 5'6" wife needs to be able to get into, I kind of want the ride height to stay lower. So just another thing to think about, whether it fits with your own goals or not.

ArdWrknTrk

Re: WHYDTYTT: What Have You Done To Your Truck Today?

Administrator

Read the link.
This kit is under 2" and less if you use the template to trim down the rear spring brackets.

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

Gary Lewis

Re: WHYDTYTT: What Have You Done To Your Truck Today?

Administrator

Jim - Do these look familiar? Agreed to buy them off a guy on Bill’s Big Block Facebook page for $125 shipped.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

ArdWrknTrk

Re: WHYDTYTT: What Have You Done To Your Truck Today?

Administrator

Good score!
They will clean up really nice.

I just saw a pair of the Blue Thunder plain valve covers NIB on the local Craigslist for $250.

https://cnj.craigslist.org/pts/d/fordbig-block-blue-thunder/6293690664.html

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

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