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Time for a new radiator?

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BigBrother-84

Time for a new radiator?

Hi Gentlemen!

Last month, Big Brother climbed to the summit of Mont Tremblant ski station. The weather was very good, a nice coloured fall day, fresh temperature.

I was little surprised to see that the engine temperature was also climbing with us. I decided to stop on the road side, and the temperature went down rapidly.

Frankly, I do not remember when the radiator was changed... Certainly more than 15-20 years. Probably more.
Coolant, hoses, radiator cap and thermostat were all changed a month ago. I also put a "flush rad" stuff in the radiator when renewing these items.

This fall, I plan to tow my tractor to our chalet for some site works. A 2 hours trip, with some steep hills to climb. Last thing I want is to overheat BigBro's engine and have to call a towing to help us. So I am considering to buy a new radiator. The current radiator is a very basic model, copper and brass 22" x 19.5", no A/C, 351W, T18.

I can consider to go aluminium, but I would prefer to not having to mess around with some fitting issues. A simple "plug and play" would be nice.

I read across some threads on the Forum and also found some information over the web, but I still have 3 questions not clearly answered:

1- How to tell if my radiator needs to be changed? Does not leak and doesn't look rusty on the outside. Just seems to not enough cooling when BigBro makes some effort.

2- If a new one is needed, how to be sure about the Ford original part number? The table shows 5 numbers for manual transmission.

3- Finally, WHERE to find one? Here in Quebec, seems they are unavailable (NAPA, CarQuest, LKQ, Canadian Tire). On the web, seems so be similar (Rock Auto, Parts Avatar, Speedway). Maybe I am just looking for the wrong part?

Thanks for help!

Jeff / 1984 F350 Crew Cab 4x4/5.8L w351 4V/ T18/ D50 4.10 front/ 8' bed.
Restored 2019-2022.
Nicknamed «Big Brother 1984», due to its soooo-looong shape & nod to George Orwell's 1984 famous novel.

Gary Lewis

Re: Time for a new radiator?

Administrator

I assume you are only using the factory gauge, so you really don't know how warm the engine is getting. Before I spent a lot of money on a new radiator I'd want to know how warm it really is getting, and I can see two ways to do that - get an infrared thermometer or add an aftermarket gauge.

I say that because Big Blue's temp will rise a bit when he's working, and that's not a problem. But you really need to know what the temps are.

As for what kind, I have a 4-row aluminum radiator from Champion and had no problems installing it. But, I've heard they are in very short supply.

And considering the original part number, you need the header for the columns, as shown below. But I don't know enough about your truck to pick the part number.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

ArdWrknTrk

Re: Time for a new radiator?

Administrator

In reply to this post by BigBrother-84

That was a beautiful photo of Big brother up at the ski chalet!

To answer question one, I'd suggest you get a tractor funnel a 5 gallon pail for the water and remove the lower radiator hose.
The water should come out just as fast as you can pour it in.

I don't think you're going to find a copper and brass radiator, and if you do it's going to be pricey.
The original Ford part number is meaningless today.

My radiator shop guy, Ricky, used to be a big proponent of Modine (the regular aluminum and plastic ones) before they were eliminated in a merger/buyout.
This was his father's and grandfather's business before him.

When I get back to town I can ask him what he would recommend today.

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

Rembrant

Re: Time for a new radiator?

ArdWrknTrk wrote

I don't think you're going to find a copper and brass radiator, and if you do it's going to be pricey.
The original Ford part number is meaningless today.

The 1980-1984 radiators have been a problem for several years now. I bought a replacement for mine a few years ago, but since about the beginning of Covid they have been really difficult to find from any supplier. On the Bullnose pages on Facebook, it is a weekly occurrence that somebody is looking for (and cannot find) a 1980-1984 style radiator. I don't know about Quebec where BigBrother-84 is located, but out here on the east coast, the radiator shops have all but quit rebuilding the old radiators. I asked a few years ago and was laughed out of the shop. The guy told me it would be $500+, and the only people doing it are the ones with the big money number matching restorations.

If you have a 1980-1984 pickup, the best option in my opinion is to swap in the 1985-1996 style radiator. They're much cheaper and much more readily available. It's a minor retrofit on a Bullnose. I did it on my 1980 a couple years ago.

1994 F150 4x2 Flareside. 5.0 w/MAF, 4R70W, stock.
1984 F150 4X2 Flareside. Mild 302 w/ 5spd. Sold.
1980 F150 4X4 Flareside. 300i6 w/ 5spd. Sold in 2021.
1980 F100 4X2 Flareside. 351w/2bbl w/NP435. Sold in 1995

Gary Lewis

Re: Time for a new radiator?

Administrator

Good suggestion, Cory.

Jeff - the how-to on installing a later radiator in the earlier radiator support is at Documentation/Cooling Systems/Radiator Support and then the 85+ Radiator in Earlier Support tab.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

BigBrother-84

Re: Time for a new radiator?

Thanks guys for these advices.

Gary, I'm going to read about this 1985-1996 style retrofit less expansive option.

Jeff / 1984 F350 Crew Cab 4x4/5.8L w351 4V/ T18/ D50 4.10 front/ 8' bed.
Restored 2019-2022.
Nicknamed «Big Brother 1984», due to its soooo-looong shape & nod to George Orwell's 1984 famous novel.

ArdWrknTrk

Re: Time for a new radiator?

Administrator

This post was updated on .

In reply to this post by Gary Lewis

CONTENTS DELETED

The author has deleted this message.

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

Rembrant

Re: Time for a new radiator?

Jim,

Click on Radiator Support, and once in there you'll see the tab. I'm on a PC though, so maybe it's not working on a mobile device.

Right. You need to add the two stationary nuts up top...just cut a couple slots to slide them in. You can scavenege the lower saddles from a later truck, but I made my own with 16 gauge sheet metal I bent up in the vice. Worked like a charm. I installed a used radiator out of a 1994 F150 into my 1980.

ArdWrknTrk

Re: Time for a new radiator?

Administrator

I was missing the key "radiator support" step in the drill down.

I guess not helped because I lost Gary's post as I clicked through to the cooling system menu.

Was your '94 donors rad support so bad that you couldn't use the saddles, or was it just down to a frame and the rest sent to scrap at that point?
I recall where you had to look the crumple zone back to fit the Bullnose bumper brackets.

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

Gary Lewis

Re: Time for a new radiator?

Administrator

Glad you guys got it sorted w/o me. I was sleeping well, something I do a lot of lately.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Rembrant

Re: Time for a new radiator?

In reply to this post by ArdWrknTrk

ArdWrknTrk wrote

Was your '94 donors rad support so bad that you couldn't use the saddles, or was it just down to a frame and the rest sent to scrap at that point?
I recall where you had to look the crumple zone back to fit the Bullnose bumper brackets.

Right. I didn't have the foresight at the time to remove those lower radiator saddles. When I pulled the whole body off the 1995 F150 I was only concerned with the chassis at the time because I thought I'd just buy the correct radiator for the 1980. Later on, deep into Covid I found out that you couldn't buy the 1980-1984 radiators anymore...they were double the price from a year or before, and they were all out of stock anyway. So I bought a used 1994 rad from a friend and that was all he had left of that truck, so I had to make my own lower saddles.

BigBrother-84

Re: Time for a new radiator?

Thanks guys for digging and pointing out relevant information.

In all cases, I realize it's going to be quite expansive, especially considering the shipping fees. I'am also contemplating the rebuild solution. A specialized shop in Montreal told me they keep the lateral tanks and put a brand new radiant core, all for 435$ US.

It is tempting to go that way, since the result is a "new" rad exactly the same as OEM...

Any advice about such rad restoration?

Jeff / 1984 F350 Crew Cab 4x4/5.8L w351 4V/ T18/ D50 4.10 front/ 8' bed.
Restored 2019-2022.
Nicknamed «Big Brother 1984», due to its soooo-looong shape & nod to George Orwell's 1984 famous novel.

Gary Lewis

Re: Time for a new radiator?

Administrator

I'm not sure I'd go down that road, Jeff. Everything I hear about the aluminum radiators is that they cool better than the old copper/brass ones, and some say much better. So I lean to the idea of changing the radiator support to go with a later model radiator and pick up one of those.

But it isn't a clear-cut decision. However, it appears to be less expensive and provides better cooling.

Just my $.02.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

ArdWrknTrk

Re: Time for a new radiator?

Administrator

Ricky used to recore a lot of radiators but only for antique vehicles and big trucks where replacements were in the thousands.

I never heard he had a callback, because he pressure tested them all.

Are you really sure your core is bad?
Especially after using whatever flush or descaling product you did.

Did you get a lot of chunks out when you flushed it?
Did you try dumping a full bucket of water through it?
Do you have a non-contact thermometer so you can look for hotspots?

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

BigBrother-84

Re: Time for a new radiator?

Ok friends, I decided to make a first "cheaper" test.

The good side is that all this experiment can be done without stalling Big Brother. I can take my time.

Today, I went to my favorite junk yard (easy, it's the only one around that keeps old f-series).
Jonathan Labrosse, the owner and a very nice guy, took a long time to dig around his stock, and finally found one 1981 original rad that fits perfectly.

The interesting fact, aside it's in pretty good shape and not too expansive (90$ US), is that it is wider (27") than my existing one (21").

I cannot imagine that 6" wider cannot deliver a cooler effect.

The downside is that my fan housing covers only 21" wide, so this supplemental 6" of radiator will be cooled only when the truck is moving. Not very satisfying for me. I would prefer that the fan creates an air flow through 100% of the radiator surface.

My plan is:
1- Clean it as much as I can, in and out, using any stuff you could suggest me, to make it shine as a new;
2- Make a pressure test on it;
3- If positive test, find a larger fan housing;
4- Buy a new lower coolant hose, since it is longer and has to get around the power steering pump.

If it's a fail, I'll step back and go with the new aluminum option, with no regrets.

Jeff / 1984 F350 Crew Cab 4x4/5.8L w351 4V/ T18/ D50 4.10 front/ 8' bed.
Restored 2019-2022.
Nicknamed «Big Brother 1984», due to its soooo-looong shape & nod to George Orwell's 1984 famous novel.

Gary Lewis

Re: Time for a new radiator?

Administrator

I think that's a good plan.

But I don't have a suggestion for what to clean the radiator with, although someone surely will.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

BigBrother-84

Re: Time for a new radiator?

This post was updated on .

Ok, here are the done steps:
1- Found a good 27" radiator at my local junk yard, and a nice OEM 27" shroud too. 75$ US.
2- Sent the radiator to a specialized shop, they cleaned it, pressure tested it, painted it. 75$ US.
3-Swaped the 21" radiator with the "new" 27".

So, for less than 200$ US (new hoses/clips included), I got a nice 27" radiator/shroud, tested & cleaned. The swap went easy.

For interested friends, I show side by side the 21" and 27".

21" shroud stamped part#:

27" shroud stamped part#:

Jeff / 1984 F350 Crew Cab 4x4/5.8L w351 4V/ T18/ D50 4.10 front/ 8' bed.
Restored 2019-2022.
Nicknamed «Big Brother 1984», due to its soooo-looong shape & nod to George Orwell's 1984 famous novel.

Gary Lewis

Re: Time for a new radiator?

Administrator

Well done, Jeff! Perfect fit.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Rusty_S85

Re: Time for a new radiator?

In reply to this post by BigBrother-84

For those that dont know the 27" radiator is basically the HD cooling option, you had two the SD cooling which is the 21" radiator and the HD cooling which is the 27".

Im surprised yours has the 21" cause all the trucks Ive seen locally had the 27". I have seen so many 27" radiators that I started to think there was no trucks sold with the 21" outside of in the F100 light duty trucks.

"Old Blue" - '56 Fairlane Town Sedan - 292-4V, Ford-O-Matic transmission, 3.22:1
'63 Belair 2dr sdn - 283-4V, Powerglide transmission, 4.56:1
'78 Cougar XR7 - 351-2V, FMX transmission, 2.75:1 9inch
"Bruno" - '82 F150 Flareside - 302-2V, C6 transmission, 2.75:1 9inch, 31x10.50-15 BFG KO2

ArdWrknTrk

Re: Time for a new radiator?

Administrator

I'd imagine cooling needs in Canada are probably not near as severe as Texas.
Just like a diesel truck in Alaska or Canada might always have a block heater.

Does anybody know if Ford had certain "mandatory options" for certain DSO's?

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.