The Camano Experience

kramttocs wrote

my wife may eventually get tired of my row of "but it's cheaper to buy the whole truck than the 1 part I need by itself" trucks.

My son (7) is big into Pokemon right now so at least he understands the concept of 'gotta catch em all'!

Bullnose stampede!!

Got the inspection done and have 300 miles on the odometer now
Have to say, the gvod behind the 460/C6 is nice! I have only been using it in auto mode so it kicks in at 45-ish as I've never really done the manual shifting with an auto.
Just the noise level alone is hard to believe. Kick it out and it sounds deafening.
I did a quick mpg test today between towns. Full tanks. Regular gas. 25 miles. Between 65-70mph (stayed closer to 70). Came out to 11.9mpg. Was holding out hope for a little better but definitely better than the 7 I was getting with the stock smogged motor originally. Since premium isn't crazy right now, I may do the test again sometime with a tank of that out of curiosity.

Got the drivers side door wrapped up and the boom mat baffle, speaker, and door panel installed. For the weather barrier I used some leftover plastic from when I encapsulated my crawlspace and the Eastwood tape caulk. Really like the tape caulk. Holds the plastic really well but also allowed me to pull a little off when I realized I put the window switch too low. Just a little fyi on the panel - I had ordered a set of the Christmas tree/push pins but the lower corners weren't staying in. Took a look at O'Reillys and they sell a package of 6 with 3 of the sames ones I had but then 3 long ones. The long ones solved the issue and keep the panel snug.



Motor is running great but starting it has been less than ideal. Starting cold isn't ever a problem although sometimes I get a short, nerve-wracking grinding noise as soon as it fires up. Then when it's warm or hot, it crawls turning over. It always starts but man it's slow. I am using a powermaster mastertorque and as far as the design goes, I really like it. I called Powermaster the other day and the tech support suggested me upping the battery cable and using a jumper vs a dedicated trigger wire for the solenoid on the starter (so going back to the factory ford setup). I was using a 2 awg hot wire as per the directions. I was going to go with a 1/0 originally but there isn't much space between the battery terminal and the solenoid terminal on the starter so the Magnalug was too close for comfort. I opted out of going back to the factory setup as I couldn't see how that would help but I did go to the 1/0 cable straight from the battery. This required a little grinding on one side of the Magnalug to get the clearance needed for both rubber covers to fit over the two terminals.
Unfortunately, no change.
While I was in another town today getting the bed Line-X'd, I swung by O'Reillys to have them test the battery. It passed but when starting it up the starter failed. Good to at least have something to go on although the starter was brand new...
Called support to get it replaced under warranty and opted to bump up to the next model (XS torque). Far more than my motor needs but can't hurt.
Hopefully that will solve both issues.

While speaking of Powermaster, I know a lot of people don't care for the 1 wire alternators but I really like the 150amp one I am using. No complaints whatsoever so far. I only went that direction because I found a new in box one in the local classifieds but it really did simplify that whole area's wiring. Using it with a single v-belt and the L&L brackets. Don't have any photos of how the alt and bracket sit but could get some if anyone is interested.

Got my Real Gaskets valve cover gaskets in the mail today and really need to take care of those leaks. Maybe if the weather is nice tomorrow...

That’s good to hear Scott. Unfortunately I would be tickled to get 11.9, maybe I could going 50 MPH!

Bummer about the starter though. Mine was slow, particularly when warm when I got it. Mine was a timing issue. It was like 28° or so, can’t remember exactly. But timing cured it.

CONGRATULATIONS!!!!!

Isn't it amazing how much better the truck feels when the RPM's come down with the OD?  Jim told me that years ago when I put the ZF5 in Dad's truck, and he was really right.  The change from the C6 to the ZF5 was wonderful.

On the starter, you are running DS-II, right?  If so, check to see that your module is retarding the timing.  As discussed, the way to do that is to pull the red/light blue wire off the relay and apply battery voltage to it.  You should see the timing come back ~4 degrees and the idle RPM drop.

As for the Powermaster alternator, that's what was on Big Blue when I got him.  But it needed a part and when I called Powermaster I learned they don't sell parts.  You have to return it.  That's when the 1G went on.  And now the 3G is on there.  I want to be able to pick up a replacement wherever I am should the one on there fail.  So I have a Powermaster apart in a box I've been trying to give away for years.  Want it?

I hope when I go with an over drive unit I get 5 more MPG I would be

You did a nice job on the door plastic. Factories have used the same strips both with plastic & vapor paper.
I started to do plastic on my doors but after cutting 2 sheets for 1 door and still not right I gave up.
I also did not have the strips but should get some to have on hand. I might give it a try when I get the new door panels.

Yea also sorry to hear about the starter but it sounds like they are going to make good.
Dave ----

I can now see why everyone recommends the zf5 swap!
Yes on the dsii. I need to try that though. Once I get the new starter in I'll do that test. Maybe at the get together I can take that alt off your hands
I completely get the roadside swappability of stock parts. I learned I am even at a slight disadvantage with the starter  since the powermaster terminals are on the side but from what I saw at OReillys, the factory pmgr's have them at the end of the solenoid. Trying to turn the end of a 1/0 cable in a tight 90 degrees wouldn't be as fun as a straight swap.

Dave - yes, I am glad they are helping me out even though I am a little past the time since while it has only been in use a short time, I bought it early on so it sat on a shelf. I will say they have very friendly support.
The 5mpg increase is great but I figured I would get a pretty big bump from all the non-od changes themselves (cam, timing set, headers, dual exhaust, desmog, etc). Still won't complain too much though.
I know you and I have talked about the gvod before and I would definitely say to keep an eye out for a used one - easy to install and well worth it. New would be great if one can, they are just a hefty chunk a change.

Thanks on the door. I cut the plastic way larger than needed so I just threw it on wherever, pressed it down hard and taut and then took a razor to trim close to the tape caulk. I also used this stuff on the HVAC box for the a/c cover but it required some clamping to get it really smooshed together and look good.

I remember being 15 and walking into O'Reillys asking for something to use to hold the vapor barrier to the door of the 65 Mustang I was restoring. The counter guys had no clue what I was talking about (doubt I explained it all that well anyways) but an older gentleman shopper took a piece of gum from his mouth and made to hand it to me while saying 'here use this, anything will work'.
Funny the stuff that 'sticks' with you.

Yes, PLEASE take that alternator off my hands!

As for the starter, as I pulled the one on Big Blue yesterday I noted that it says XS.  Works well.  But I gave my cables extra length so should be able to go with a different brand when the time comes.

I forgot you did the de-smog and other work at the same time as the GV OD.
I wonder what just the GV OD added to the MPG?
Guess it would be easy to find out, just don't use OD LOL.

I do have a plan for an OD unit but this virus kind of messed up the timing on getting one so I sit and wait. I also want to do the T18 to NP435 transmission swap at the same time.
No need moving them heavy transmissions more than I have to.

On the plastic I was tying to cut it to size and fit it up then was going to "stick it" think was going to use spray contact cement.
I like the way you did it with the ribbon tape and cut the plastic to ruff size, stick it in place and trim the rest of the way.

Because I have the slider locks and no sliders it left a BIG hole in the panels.
I used alum. duct tape in the inside to seal the holes but I don't think I would get much air coming in with the new window sweeps on the out side of the glass.

Dave ----

Gary - I wondered if you had the XS since I recall looking at the pmgr upgrade page and seeing that your terminals were on the sides. Smart thinking on leaving the cables a little long.

Dave - I'll do the non-OD test the next time I head to that town. Will be good to have that number. My speedometer is also off a little so the mpg won't be quite as good but not sure that will have too much of an impact over that short test. Yeah, no sense adding the OD first if you'll take it off soon to swap the tranny. Will be interested in how both those changes impact your mpg's.

Did the speedo go off after the GV OD swap or was that way before the swap?
If before and did not correct it for your 7MPG than you are still apples to apples for measuring MPG.
Would be nice, or maybe not? to know what it gets.

Well I am getting mid 14's+, I had 1 fill up that got 15 MPG wish I knew what I did for that.
When on the high way I try to keep it about 65 MPH as the first fill up was in the 13's MPG range when doing 70 MPH the speed limit here.

Also have to note when the trucks were built the max speed limit was 55.
In my truck that is about 1800 RPM, doing 65 MPH I am about 2250 RPM and 70 is even higher.
My thinking if I can get the RPM down to 1800 or so at 65 / 70 MPH I will be happy.
I also have the 300 six and it does not spin vary high and pulls pretty good at the lower RPM's.

I do know my speedo & mileage are so close to dead on after the speedo gear fix and tested with my truckers GPS for speed and mile markers.
Dave ----

That's a good question. I am really not sure if the speedo was off before or not.
Now the speedo is ran off the OD (a TH400 setup I think?) and it has the slowest gear available in there (light green).
I assumed that is what did it but I am also running a little shorter tires than stock although not by much.
Before the rebuild I didn't ever measure it with gps and only thought to now since the head unit offers it. Otherwise I doubt I would have ever known.

I want to try it at 55 sometime on that same stretch. Despite these trucks being capable of the higher speeds, there is just something about keeping the speedometer at the 'framed' 55 .

The gvod ought to get you really close to that if not right at it. Mine is dropping about 500 rpms but at your already lower rpms it would be a little less (percentage I think is 20-22).

Worked a little on the truck yesterday and got the drivers side platform installed. You can't see it but following Gary's lead, there is a second duraspark unit under the platform. I drilled out the threads on the top one so it's all sandwiched together using the bottom unit's threads.
I probably won't have a secondary battery in there for a while so I will be running the fuse box from the isolator only for now. This will be running things that won't be critical if the isolator cuts out when not running. Out of 1/0 red cable so had to order some more but there will be a cable going from one of the fuses to the left side of the isolator. I doubt I will ever need more relays but the blank section is in case I do add another ssVEC box like on the passenger side.


While checking out the carb vacuum lines I figured I'd take a photo of the fuel line I am using in case it helps anyone. Probably a dozen ways to do this and there may even be a more obvious solution I overlooked but this is what I went with. I'd ran into an issue on a previous 460 truck where I had to turn the feed line backwards and then run a long length of fuel line looping around behind the carb and up the drivers side of it. All because of the thermostat housing.
I ended up going with the summit feed line with the built in filter and pressure gauge. I then looped the hard line around the distributor. Right now I have a second inline filter but that is only so I could run a few tanks after the rebuild and easily monitor the filter. Will remove it and have just a SS hard line there soon.
Pleasantly surprised with the summit line.
I guess this is only an issue with non-factory carbs but if anyone has any other 460 fuel line routing photos, would be interested in seeing them.

Scott - Looking great!  It really looks neat and well thought out.  I like it.  

On the fuel system, I'm leaning hard on going with the later FDM's and bringing the supply and return lines up over the transmission and back of the engine.  That will keep the lines farther away from the exhaust and let me feed the carb from the rear.  Have you thought about coming in that way?

kramttocs wrote

That's a good question. I am really not sure if the speedo was off before or not.
Now the speedo is ran off the OD (a TH400 setup I think?) and it has the slowest gear available in there (light green).
I assumed that is what did it but I am also running a little shorter tires than stock although not by much.
Before the rebuild I didn't ever measure it with gps and only thought to now since the head unit offers it. Otherwise I doubt I would have ever known.

I want to try it at 55 sometime on that same stretch. Despite these trucks being capable of the higher speeds, there is just something about keeping the speedometer at the 'framed' 55 .

The gvod ought to get you really close to that if not right at it. Mine is dropping about 500 rpms but at your already lower rpms it would be a little less (percentage I think is 20-22).

Any way to switch the cable back to the TC and check with a GPS if the speed is off?
Then back in the GVOD and check it.
Just wondering is all.

I am waiting on a Advance Adaptor's Range Splitter, should have been here. It is listed at 27% OD IIRC.
Running the numbers thru the calculator on here it should put me at 1800 RPM at 70 MPH.

The thing I don't like about the GVOD is you cant split all the gears because the need to be at a speed before the unit will shift.
So I would not be able to split granny gear to pull a load that did not need non-OD granny gear.

My speedo would still be in the transmission so that should not change how it work for me.
Because I also have many miles that I have taken mileage I should be able to get a good reading with the OD unit installed.
I cant see going from a T18 to the NP435 would change the MPG as it is still 1:1 4th gear.
Dave ----

I like the integrated solution of the summit feed.

I have a mechanical pump, so my fuel line runs up the timing case in front of the distributor.
I use a 2000 Altima filter to make the 90* pointing back at the right side of the carb.

Pics, if you want...

I'm interested to see what Gary does, as he says he's coming up the back.

I, too, like the integrated solution of the Summit feed.  But with an electric pump it seems like you are gathering more heat if you run to the front and up that way.

I have the factory EFI tubing from Huck which runs up over the tranny and the back of the engine.  Since that needs to be used for EFI I'm leaning to using it now for a carb so I don't have to change later.  If Scott's not going to EFI then that routing may not be advantageous.

ArdWrknTrk wrote

I have a mechanical pump, so my fuel line runs up the timing case in front of the distributor.
Pics, if you want...

 

That's a neat solution for a turn and filter combined.  

I just did some quick looking at that offering. Those look really nice at a great price point! I like the short length of them, the 27%, and that they work in 2wd or 4wd (that is a gvod deal breaker in some regions).

Looks like they require a few more modifications to the truck and I will be interested in seeing how you do the shift lever changes.

Unfortunately I can't change the speedometer back to the factory setup because with the 4wd install you replace the back half of the transfer case with a gvod provided one so you no longer have the speedometer hookup.

Thanks a lot for those photos Jim. Never knew they offered a filter that had an angled outlet. That would help in a lot of scenarios.

Gary, I hadn't ever thought about coming up over the back. I don't hate the idea and would really like the clean approach of it. I will keep an eye out on what you do especially if you make the change while still running the carb. I have a lot of questions since I haven't ever seen the efi routing to know if it would be plug and play to the carb or if you will have to do bend some custom lines. Since I am sure there will be a lot of good photos when you get to that point, I'll hold off on asking them and wait patiently

Yesterday the XS Torque came in. Night and day difference in starting the truck than with the [defective] MasterTorque. Let the truck run to temp, killed it, and started it back up after 10 minutes. No slowness at all.

My only concern is that split second after starting. With the MasterTorque I was getting that really awful sounding grinding after. Which I could understand being the starter not disengaging fast enough and getting turned by the motor. This was without and with the shim both.
With the XS Torque it doesn't sound bad at all but there is a whirring noise very briefly after startup. To me it sounds like the starter is spinning so fast that I can hear it freewheeling after it has disengaged. Again, not a bad sound but not something I have heard before or recall.
Will take a video of it later and see what you guys think. I called tech support and they suggested I recheck the measurement between the flexplate teeth and the spacer plate to see if I needed the shim. I would have expected if the shim was needed (the measurement checked out correctly to NOT need the shim before I installed the original MasterTorque) that it would mean it doesn't disengage fast enough and would cause the grinding.

I think you need some new valve covers though Jim and I could take your current set off your hands

Scott - In these two shots of Huck's filthy engine you can see how the fuel lines come up over the back and into and out of the fuel rails.  I'm wondering if I can put that setup in place but where these go to the rails connect to either nylon line or EFI-rated hose and go into the return-style fuel pressure regulator I have.  Mount that regulator on the firewall or back of the intake manifold/lower plenum and go from there to the carb.

That way I'd keep the lines far from the exhaust and not have to go to the front of the engine and then back.  Plus, I'd be plumbed for EFI when the time comes.