Swapping 1996 4.9 E4OD into 1986 F250 6.9 C6

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Swapping 1996 4.9 E4OD into 1986 F250 6.9 C6

nic55kel
This project is under serious consideration.
Donor is regular cab and recipient is extended cab.
My research so far leads me to the following conclusions:
Switch the entire HVAC system from the 1996 as a charged system.
The engine perches should just switch over.
Will have to fab/modify the transmission cross member.
Come up with correct length driveshaft.
Get rid of the cat converters and use a Walker Y pipe.

Issues to be solved:
Need a VSS signal at correct frequency.
Transmission shift linkage.
fuel system - I would really like to keep the existing tanks in the 86 as the tanks on the 96 are rusted out.
Instrument cluster speedometer.
Where to put the PCM? Make a housing with ventilation under the hood?
Wiring issues - Intend to take the engine - transmission - PCM wiring from the donor and strip out everything else which will just leave the external connections to the PCM - various power, ground, MIL, brake, VSS, datalink and fuel pump.

Nic55kel

DonorRecipient


Nic55kel

1986 F250 Lariat extended cab C6 GVOD 2WD
1996 F150 4.9 parts truck
1986 Fiero GT
1992 Oldsmobile 98 touring sedan
2007 F250 6.0 4wd
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Re: Swapping 1996 4.9 E4OD into 1986 F250 6.9 C6

ArdWrknTrk
Administrator
All trucks should have the computer pocket beneath the brake booster, near the kick panel.

Is your Diesel not this way?
I thought by '85 (and the option of efi in the 302) that it was universal, and came with a rubber cover if not used.

Maybe I'm wrong?

Saw your intro, and I think you have a great plan!  
 Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with an Edelbrock 1826 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.
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Re: Swapping 1996 4.9 E4OD into 1986 F250 6.9 C6

nic55kel
Thanks for the encouragement, quite the opposite of the response I got on oilburners.net (which is not surprising).
If that is true about the pocket that is great news.
I will find out when I pull the 6.9. With it being a diesel there is sound insulation covering most everything and with the water separator there its tough to see.

Nic55kel
Nic55kel

1986 F250 Lariat extended cab C6 GVOD 2WD
1996 F150 4.9 parts truck
1986 Fiero GT
1992 Oldsmobile 98 touring sedan
2007 F250 6.0 4wd
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Re: Swapping 1996 4.9 E4OD into 1986 F250 6.9 C6

ArdWrknTrk
Administrator
Have a look at your 300.

Although the cab changed in many ways, to the best of my knowledge the pocket stayed in the same place.

You can then envision what lays beneath the insulation on the diesel.
 Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with an Edelbrock 1826 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.
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Re: Swapping 1996 4.9 E4OD into 1986 F250 6.9 C6

Gary Lewis
Administrator
In reply to this post by nic55kel
Looks like a good plan to me.  But I'm not sure you can't use the E4OD's crossmember from the '96.  I used a '90 E4OD crossmember in Dad's truck.  It didn't bolt right in, but you can see for yourself how it fit in Dad's Truck Build thread here.

But your truck is a 2wd - right?  I ask because if it is a 4wd there's a possibility that with the E4OD's extra 7" of length the transfer case may hit the floor.  
Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker in front & 10.25 Spicer/Trutrac in back, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI
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Re: Swapping 1996 4.9 E4OD into 1986 F250 6.9 C6

nic55kel
Thanks Gary. The 1996 crossmember is in poor shape, looks like I will have to move the C6 crossmember rearward about 8".
I was checking out the supermotors.net site and I see Steve has already solved a lot of issues.
The PCM can be made to fit in the 87+ location by cutting a hole in the firewall and moving the parking brake pedal over a small amount and cutting the kick trim panel a bit. He also did a nice job of fitting a later PSOM in the bullnose cluster in place of the mechanical speedo.
Starting to feel confident that this can be done without too many headaches and will have a good outcome.
Will make a final decision on this in the next couple of weeks and if I go ahead I will post lots of pictures of how it goes.

Nic55kel
Nic55kel

1986 F250 Lariat extended cab C6 GVOD 2WD
1996 F150 4.9 parts truck
1986 Fiero GT
1992 Oldsmobile 98 touring sedan
2007 F250 6.0 4wd
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Re: Swapping 1996 4.9 E4OD into 1986 F250 6.9 C6

nic55kel
And yes it is a 2WD so should be no clearance issues.
Nic55kel
Nic55kel

1986 F250 Lariat extended cab C6 GVOD 2WD
1996 F150 4.9 parts truck
1986 Fiero GT
1992 Oldsmobile 98 touring sedan
2007 F250 6.0 4wd
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Re: Swapping 1996 4.9 E4OD into 1986 F250 6.9 C6

Gary Lewis
Administrator
In reply to this post by nic55kel
Yes, Steve has been there, done that.  You can too.  
Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker in front & 10.25 Spicer/Trutrac in back, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI
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Re: Swapping 1996 4.9 E4OD into 1986 F250 6.9 C6

Steve83
In reply to this post by nic55kel
nic55kel wrote
Donor is regular cab and recipient is extended cab.
That should have no impact.
nic55kel wrote
Switch the entire HVAC system from the 1996 as a charged system.
That's certainly the best - the compressor already fits the engine, and you only need to swap the hood latch bracket to make the condenser fit.
nic55kel wrote
The engine perches should just switch over.
Yes.
nic55kel wrote
Will have to fab/modify the transmission cross member.
If the original '96 Xmbr is damaged, look for an identical one in the local JYs.  It should simply bolt into the older frame, although you may have to drill some holes.
nic55kel wrote
Come up with correct length driveshaft.
That was a problem for me for MANY years, because I kept trying to cheap-out.  When I finally bit the bullet & ordered a new one to fit, all those problems went away.  Mine came from Tom Woods
nic55kel wrote
Get rid of the cat converters and use a Walker Y pipe.
Why?  The engine will run better with ALL the factory parts (including the emissions systems) intact & working as-designed.  My engine is now in its 3rd chassis with about a million miles, never rebuilt, still running like-new.  And I only drive it like I stole it.
nic55kel wrote
Need a VSS signal at correct frequency.
This isn't the answer you want to hear, but the easiest way to solve that is to swap to a newer axle.  That will also make the driveshaft problem MUCH easier & cheaper.

There IS a way around it, using a cruise control VSS & matching speedo cable, but I don't recommend it because they're high-wear parts, and speedo cables are VERY hard to find new nowadays.  They'll only get $carcer...
nic55kel wrote
Transmission shift linkage.
My guess on that one would be to build a simple bracket (or modify the one from the '96) to connect the '96 E4OD cable to the '86 column outside the cab at the '86 shifter nub.  You should end up with a LOT of extra cable.  Just make sure the radius from the center of the '86 nub's rotation to the nub is the same as on the '96 shifter.
nic55kel wrote
fuel system
My solution was to put an EFI tank in my Bronco.  I recommend you do the same, but you'll need 2 that fit your wheelbase.  That's the only thing that relates to the cab sizes, but since the donor's tanks are bad (have you actually looked inside them?), and you can't reuse the diesel tank, you had to cross that bridge no matter what.
nic55kel wrote
Instrument cluster speedometer.
The PSOM, fuel gauge, & voltmeter have to be swapped in, as you saw in my pics.
nic55kel wrote
Where to put the PCM?
I see you found that answer already - yes, it's pretty easy.
nic55kel wrote
...take the engine - transmission - PCM wiring from the donor and strip out everything else...
The more '96 wiring you put into the '86, the better-off you'll be.  When I put an '88 F150 XLT into a '75 Bronco, I only removed the RABS.



Like the EEC, I recommend cutting the firewall for the 2 big driver's side connectors so they install just like in the '96.  I didn't do that on my truck, and I regretted it until the 2nd time I changed the body (which was a '93 with those holes).
Walk softly and carry a BIG SIX!!!
https://www.supermotors.net/registry/2742#album
Memphis, TN, USA, Earth, Milky Way
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Re: Swapping 1996 4.9 E4OD into 1986 F250 6.9 C6

nic55kel
Steve thanks for your detailed reply.

Problem with tanks, crossmember and cat converters is rust. They are horrible, front tank leaks.
I think my best solution for the rest of the parts is to try to find a 92-96 F250 donor with 155 wb, E4OD. This should give me the driveshaft, rear axle(vss) and fuel tanks.

As for transferring as much wiring as possible. How does the 96 interior cab harness match up to the 86 controls, steering column etc.? Or did you switch those out as well?

As a side note, I put a permit on the 96 donor and took it for a drive. Transmission shifts great, OD lockout and indicator work. Engine nice and smooth with no codes set, all the fluids super clean and no blow-by or odd noises. Even got the speed control to work once I jumpered out the brake pressure switch. A/c blowing 40f at the vents with 80f outside so very happy with all the major systems.

Have lots of family visiting at the moment so not much time for projects but in a couple of weeks should be ready to start.

Nic55kel
Nic55kel

1986 F250 Lariat extended cab C6 GVOD 2WD
1996 F150 4.9 parts truck
1986 Fiero GT
1992 Oldsmobile 98 touring sedan
2007 F250 6.0 4wd
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Re: Swapping 1996 4.9 E4OD into 1986 F250 6.9 C6

ArdWrknTrk
Administrator
Be aware of the Ford cruise control recall that burned hundreds of vehicles and killed some people.

From 1994, tens of millions of Ford vehicles with a brake pressure switch made by TI ***To Ford's Specs*** started to fail.
The kapton insulation broke down in brake fluid and because the brake lights are NOT on the ignition switch, power is there at all times.
Corrosion creates heat which ignites the brake fluid and the brake fluid lights the actual casting of the M/C.

I withessed one of these on an early Sunday morning a decade ago.
Ben's F-250 was gutted.
So was the Landcruiser parked in front of him.

If the switch is tripping out.
Don't re-apply power to it until it's replaced.
 Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with an Edelbrock 1826 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.
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Re: Swapping 1996 4.9 E4OD into 1986 F250 6.9 C6

nic55kel
Thanks, should probably have said bypassed the brake pressure switch.
I am aware of the problems with the brake switch.
I learned about it in 2006 when the wife took her windstar to a supposedly reputable ford dealer here because the speedometer quit working, I was out of town at the time. They charged her an hour for changing the blown fuse and said it would have to be left with them for lots of diagnosis to find out why the fuse was blowing. Wife said no way and drove it like that until I returned.
I researched it on the net for a few minutes and found out that the brake switch was problematic and that the speedometer is  on the same circuit, I bypassed the switch and end of problem. Hard to believe that a ford dealership did not know about it by 2006 unless they were just trying to milk it.
I realize bypassing the switch is one less failsafe but probably safer than leaving it energized and one still has the cruise on/off switch.

Nic55kel
Nic55kel

1986 F250 Lariat extended cab C6 GVOD 2WD
1996 F150 4.9 parts truck
1986 Fiero GT
1992 Oldsmobile 98 touring sedan
2007 F250 6.0 4wd
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Re: Swapping 1996 4.9 E4OD into 1986 F250 6.9 C6

ArdWrknTrk
Administrator
I'm sorry to hear what happened to your wife.
But I'm glad you know about the situation and what the signs are.

We all take informed risks.
You seem well informed, and a good fit here.

When Ben had bought his truck he was thinking "some idiot unplugged my cruise" and put it back in without checking that the (second!) round of retrofit *harnesses had been installed.
 
The rest is history.

Enjoy your family and your summer vacation!
We'll be here. 😉
 Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with an Edelbrock 1826 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.
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Re: Swapping 1996 4.9 E4OD into 1986 F250 6.9 C6

salans7
In reply to this post by ArdWrknTrk
ArdWrknTrk wrote
Although the cab changed in many ways, to the best of my knowledge the pocket stayed in the same place.
Nope, Bullnose trucks have the computer behind the dash close to the radio. The wiring harness for the engine controls goes through the firewall right next to the accelerator cable.
-Shaun
1980/86/90 Ford F350 4x4 351W/NP435/Sterling
2003 Ford Ranger V6/M5OD/8.8
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Re: Swapping 1996 4.9 E4OD into 1986 F250 6.9 C6

ArdWrknTrk
Administrator
Shaun,

You know I really should have an efi Bullnose if I'm going to open my mouth.
I guess Steve explains moving the parking brake over to gain enough room.

 Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with an Edelbrock 1826 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.
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Re: Swapping 1996 4.9 E4OD into 1986 F250 6.9 C6

salans7
Moving the parking brake over is only necessary on a Bullnose because the Bricknose and Aeronose trucks have an indentation stamped into the cab for the computer that the Bullnose cab does not. In other words, there's less room between the cab and the parking brake on the Bullnose trucks.
-Shaun
1980/86/90 Ford F350 4x4 351W/NP435/Sterling
2003 Ford Ranger V6/M5OD/8.8
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Re: Swapping 1996 4.9 E4OD into 1986 F250 6.9 C6

ArdWrknTrk
Administrator
Yes, I understand where and why.

If the '96(?) Isn't too rotted maybe he could actually scab that piece of the cab over.
Having the flange would make it easier, I imagine.
 Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with an Edelbrock 1826 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.
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Re: Swapping 1996 4.9 E4OD into 1986 F250 6.9 C6

Steve83
This post was updated on .
nic55kel wrote
I think my best solution for the rest of the parts is to try to find a 92-96 F250 donor with 155 wb, E4OD.
Yes, probably so.
nic55kel wrote
How does the 96 interior cab harness match up to the 86 controls, steering column etc.?
The wire colors are very similar because most of the FUNCTIONS are the same.  But most of them won't plug in, so there has to be some splicing somewhere.  I wish I had done it AT each component (so it would be easier to update them over time) instead of under the hood.
ArdWrknTrk wrote
Having the flange would make it easier, I imagine.
No, that would be about 10x more work than what I did.  Those holes are just sheared through the flat steel - there's not a "flange".  So transferring metal isn't necessary.





The big round '88 firewall connector is visible in the '75 here:



But this shows the shapes of the 2 driver's-side connectors in '92-96 trucks:

Walk softly and carry a BIG SIX!!!
https://www.supermotors.net/registry/2742#album
Memphis, TN, USA, Earth, Milky Way
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Re: Swapping 1996 4.9 E4OD into 1986 F250 6.9 C6

nic55kel
Thanks again Steve for all the great information.

I only have a couple of last thoughts:

Does anyone know if the speed control steering wheel resistors are the same 1986 to 1996.
I have had no luck finding out what the 1986 values are to compare.

Do 155" wb driveshafts with E4OD 2wd have 2 slip joints?
One at the transmission and one after the hangar bearing.
Anyone know if there is a specific hangar bearing to limit fore/aft motion on the front d/s?

Nic55kel

1986 F250 Lariat extended cab C6 GVOD 2WD
1996 F150 4.9 parts truck
1986 Fiero GT
1992 Oldsmobile 98 touring sedan
2007 F250 6.0 4wd
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Re: Swapping 1996 4.9 E4OD into 1986 F250 6.9 C6

ArdWrknTrk
Administrator
In reply to this post by ArdWrknTrk
*pinch weld of the footwell might have been better phrasing....?*

Cool project regardless.  😎
 Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with an Edelbrock 1826 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.
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