Rembrant's new non-Bullnose project

Cory, that is looking good

On the heat shield I was thinking the same as Gary, use 1 of the flange bolts to hold it.
I did not look to far on this site on the size of his starters end to end and I dont know if mine would be the same as any of the others because of the nose / bolt parts could be different.
https://www.robbmcperformance.com/products/starter_home.html
I have 2 of his starters, no pinion support in the drag car and have a pinion support on the shelf for a higher compression motor if I ever build one.

Its a great starter and the customer support is also great from what the AMC guys that needed to use it have said, I have not needed to use it.
Dave ----

Nice! Looking good!

Why the Toyota box? Good fit for a 302?

Thanks Guys!,

grumpin wrote

Why the Toyota box? Good fit for a 302?

Well that's a good question Dane. The Toyota 4x4 box is a good match because it used a "push/pull" steering system like the old Ford pickups had. The steering box mounts to the inside of the frame, but the sector shaft pokes THROUGH the frame and the drag link runs parallel to the frame and connects to a ball joint on the driver's side spindle. Here's a picture I saved from one of the forums showing the drag link outside the frame.



So the 1979-1984 Toyota 4x4 trucks were probably the most modern vehicle to utilize this type of steering...I'm not sure. From what I can tell, the Toyota steering swap was really common in the 1990's and into the early 2000's, but it has since been replaced with some better aftermarket options. Problem is, the aftermarket boxes have been unavailable due to Covid delays, and nobody could say when they would be available, so I went "old school" and scrounged parts to do the Toyota swap. The problem with THAT, is that the Toyota steering boxes and the associated parts that go with them are getting really hard to find. I was lucky enough to find them all, but it took a lot of scrounging.

I was faced with two bad options lol. Wait for the aftermarket boxes to become available, with an unknown ETA, or try to do a Toyota steering box swap (which in basically an obsolete option in 2022) haha. Anyway, I lucked out. Ask me in a couple months how it's working, and maybe it will have been a terrible idea in hindsight. I'm pretty good at those, too.

There are also complete front end swaps, and aftermarket rack and pinion kits as well, but I was trying to avoid both of those options. There have been some rumors floating around here in recent years that the qualifications for Antique plates and basic roadworthy-ness are going to tighten up by quite a bit, so I wanted to leave the front end as stock-ish as possible.

The Ford C2 pump should run the Toyota box just fine, or at least I have read reports that they do.

Well that’s interesting! That picture looks like a cool setup.

I had an 87 4Runner, traded it for my truck probably 5 years ago now. It was getting hard to find stuff for it.

Competing with a lot of the world for parts for the older Toyotas. Particularly South America is what I read and heard.

Update...SNAFU. Ran into an issue with my serpentine drive. RockAuto box arrived with a whole bunch of goodies, so I was able to get my serpentine drive all installed. Problem is now, the tensioner under the alternator goes all the way to the stop. I tried shorter belts, and same issue. (It rotates clockwise fyi).

The smog pump has been deleted...it was below the alternator. I guess I mistakenly trusted some information I found on FTE that this setup would work with this particular belt...and maybe it does work...but I'm not going to risk driving with no tensioner.



The simple solution would be to install a smog pump delete bracket like below:

https://lmr.com/products/79-93-Mustang-Smog-Pump-Components

But the smog pump mounting points have already been removed...ugh. So I guess I'm off to the junkyard today to look for a new old bracket.

There's always something lol. One step forward, 3/4 of a step backwards, always lol.

I wouldn’t take that chance either. Install it and find out it slips.

I’m surprised a shorter belt doesn’t work.

Bummer!

This is the very project I am working on now - swapping '95 donor truck serpentine stuff into my '81. I'm not quite as far along as you, but I probably will be tomorrow, so following this thread.

Pete Whitstone wrote

This is the very project I am working on now - swapping '95 donor truck serpentine stuff into my '81. I'm not quite as far along as you, but I probably will be tomorrow, so following this thread.

This engine is a 1996 5.0, so the serpentine drive is the same as 1995. I picked up another bracket today from a junked ‘94 F150. I need to disassemble it and remove the smog pump and order a smog delete bracket. The good news is that this will allow me to run a stock size belt and the tensioner will work as it is supposed to. The downside is that it backs me up at least a week. Oh well.

It is still progress, and as Jim says, progress is good.

grumpin wrote

I’m surprised a shorter belt doesn’t work.

I think it is because the tensioner has such a short radius, and the arc it travels makes it almost impossible to work properly with any belt. The shorter belt did go on with some force, and then it felt too tight...and the tensioner still pushed to the stop. What a bugger. Serves me right for taking the advice of some old random thread on FTE lol.

Anyway, I got a new bracket yesterday, same as the one on the truck now, but with the smog pump still intact. Will be working on it today to see if I can get it apart, so that I can have it blasted this week.

Pete Whitstone wrote

This is the very project I am working on now - swapping '95 donor truck serpentine stuff into my '81. I'm not quite as far along as you, but I probably will be tomorrow, so following this thread.

Ok, new development. From more internetting, I was told there was another way to do this.

Bypass the idler pulley completely and run the "upper" belt under the tensioner. See pic below:



I am using an old cut belt here with two needlenose Visegrips holding it together below the tensioner. According to my measuring, it comes out to about 93.25", so I went out and bought a 93" belt and can confirm that it doesn't fit. I think I'm going to try a 93.5" belt on it. The good news is that if this works it will save me from spending a couple hundred on a smog pump delete kit, and it gives more than 180 degrees wrap on the alternator pulley, for what little that is worth.

I don't think you'll have any problem driving a 95A alternator with a polygroove  belt Cory.  

If the 93 1/2" (2.375m) belt fits I would say "less parts is less to go wrong!".

And it would really clean up the visible part of the engine if you were able to lose the idler....

Progress is GOOD!       😉

That’s cool! Actually looks better operational wise to me.

I agree, that looks great!  And there shouldn’t be any belt slippage on that alternator.

Rembrant wrote

I am using an old cut belt here with two needlenose Visegrips holding it together below the tensioner. According to my measuring, it comes out to about 93.25", so I went out and bought a 93" belt and can confirm that it doesn't fit. I think I'm going to try a 93.5" belt on it. The good news is that if this works it will save me from spending a couple hundred on a smog pump delete kit, and it gives more than 180 degrees wrap on the alternator pulley, for what little that is worth.

Good find! I have already ordered the smog pump delete kit, but it's in NY and I'm in TX so it will be a week or more. So I was resigned to not having use of my truck for that time, but if I can throw a $30 belt at it instead, it would be worth it until the kit comes in. Let me know what the final size is. Thanks!

Pete Whitstone wrote

Good find! I have already ordered the smog pump delete kit, but it's in NY and I'm in TX so it will be a week or more. So I was resigned to not having use of my truck for that time, but if I can throw a $30 belt at it instead, it would be worth it until the kit comes in. Let me know what the final size is. Thanks!

I'm hoping to grab a 93.5" belt tomorrow to test fit, but my engine being a 5.0 will have a shorter belt than a 351w.

Rembrant wrote

I'm hoping to grab a 93.5" belt tomorrow to test fit, but my engine being a 5.0 will have a shorter belt than a 351w.

Ah, ok. Well, the delta between what you measured and what the actual belt length that you ended up with will still be useful.

Pete Whitstone wrote

Ah, ok. Well, the delta between what you measured and what the actual belt length that you ended up with will still be useful.

I ended up ordering a 93.5" belt from RockAuto. The price of belts locally is insane. They're $60-$70, and even $80 each. The 93.5" on Rock Auto was like $22 bucks, which I can live with. I needed a few other things anyway.

But...I have bad news and good news...lol. That smog delete idler pulley/bracket affair has a smaller pulley than the factory pulley that was on your smog pump. So the bad news is that the stock length belt may end up being too long. One solution is to buy an AC delete bracket and swap the pulley from it on to the smog delete bracket. Another solution is a shorter belt. Finally, if all else fails, you can tweak the tension by adding spacers (washers) under the alternator, or I suppose under the AC compressor.

Anyway, I'll let you know how I make out with mine when the 93.5" belt arrives. I'm hoping it will be long enough, but it could end up being a hair too short too.

Rembrant wrote

But...I have bad news and good news...lol. That smog delete idler pulley/bracket affair has a smaller pulley than the factory pulley that was on your smog pump. So the bad news is that the stock length belt may end up being too long. One solution is to buy an AC delete bracket and swap the pulley from it on to the smog delete bracket. Another solution is a shorter belt. Finally, if all else fails, you can tweak the tension by adding spacers (washers) under the alternator, or I suppose under the AC compressor.

Anyway, I'll let you know how I make out with mine when the 93.5" belt arrives. I'm hoping it will be long enough, but it could end up being a hair too short too.

Yup, I was aware from a youtube video I watched that the pulley would be smaller, and have already sourced the larger AC pulley. Even it was somewhat smaller in diameter than the stock pulley from the smog pump. Not by much, maybe 3/4", so I suspect after it comes in, I will still be chasing the correct belt size.

RockAuto to the rescue! I finally have a winner with this alternate belt routing. A 93.5" belt fits perfectly, and the tensioner is only at about 50% travel, maybe even a hair less. This should do the trick. I don't know how common this belt drive swap will be on the older trucks, but this is one way to run a 94-96 SBF serpentine belt (when smog pump is removed).