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Project Begun: 1985 F150 5.0 EFI engine dismantle

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85lebaront2

Re: Project Begun: 1985 F150 5.0 EFI engine dismantle

Administrator

I would try to stick with a Ford system as it works well on the later trucks.

One question, since you are headed toward updating a lot of the EFI system on your truck and possibly rearranging the existing harness layout, why not go ahead and update to a later EEC-IV system? That gets away from some of the other 1985/1986 only parts and will give you some additional computer capabilities. The only additional piece needed is a speed sensor input as 1987-1995 EECs use that information to adjust some EFI programming. The other item, any exhaust shop can add an O2 sensor bung beyond the point where the two exhaust pipes join into one so it then monitors the whole engine. The heater circuit is pretty straight forward, an engine running 12V source and ground.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

"Getting old is inevitable, growing up is optional" Darth Vader 1986 F350 460 converted to MAF/SEFI, E4OD 12X3 1/2 rear brakes, traction loc 3:55 gear, 160 amp 3G alternator Wife's 2011 Flex Limited Daily Driver 2009 Flex Limited with factory tow package Project car 1986 Chrysler LeBaron convertible 2.2L Turbo II, modified A413

Gary Lewis

Re: Project Begun: 1985 F150 5.0 EFI engine dismantle

Administrator

In reply to this post by sgauvry

I hope you aren't in a hurry. I'm probably many months from tearing Big Blue down to actually start the reformation. But there are many details that have to be worked out, so I'm doing that now in order to minimize the down time.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

sgauvry

Re: Project Begun: 1985 F150 5.0 EFI engine dismantle

In reply to this post by 85lebaront2

Thanks for the information. Here we go again, replacing my ECM...

Regarding the O2 sensor, that is already accomplished as I had put a heated sensor in and moved it to exactly where you suggested.

Not sure about the speed sensor input and I may need to be walked through that.

Thanks for the idea!

Steve

Steven A. Gauvry - 1985 F150 5.0 EFI

sgauvry

Re: Project Begun: 1985 F150 5.0 EFI engine dismantle

In reply to this post by Gary Lewis

Thanks, Gary.

I have lots to do and can't see that I'll be able to pull my engine until the weather breaks - late march or so.
Then after I pull it, I'm going to strip the paint from inside the engine compartment, seal it, prime it, and paint it. I'll also be replacing all brake lines, fuel lines, and do whatever I'm going to do to upgrade from a low pressure inside the tank fuel pump and HP pump along the rail, to a single HP pump if it can be figured out.

I will scrape, seal, prime and paint the frame.

I have to cut the panels of the cab corners, weld in new panels, strip off old paint and rust, do some body work, seal, prime and paint the cab inside and out, with clearcoat on the outside. The same process for the hood and doors.

I'll be replacing the grill and bezels.

Ambitious project for someone who is handicapped. Lots to do, but I hope to be finished by end of July.

Thanks for inviting me to join your forum! I hope to meet you, Bill, and Vinny someday. You guys have been a Godsend!

Steve

Steven A. Gauvry - 1985 F150 5.0 EFI

Gary Lewis

Re: Project Begun: 1985 F150 5.0 EFI engine dismantle

Administrator

Steve - Thrilled to be able to help you. As for meeting, be in Skiatook on September 15th. That'll be the 2nd annual Garagemahal All-Ford Truck Show & Swap Meet. Last year we had Bill/NumberDummy from CA, Jonathan/Ford F834 from AZ, Chris/ctubutis from CO, Eli/Smokenchoken from KS, David/1986F150Six from AL, Brandon/Bruno2 from OK, as well as several others whose names I'm forgetting.

This year I expect most of those will be back, plus lots of others who have said they'll come, including Ken Blythen from New Zealand and Daren/Oz Econoline/F100 from Australia.

So, to borrow from the commercials we heard back in the 60's, BE THERE!

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

85lebaront2

Re: Project Begun: 1985 F150 5.0 EFI engine dismantle

Administrator

In reply to this post by sgauvry

Steve, does your truck have a cruise control? If it does then the speed sensor is already there, if not it isn't too hard to add one at the transmission or transfer case end of the speedometer cable, it is a modified cable and gear holder with the sensor in it and you would need a pigtail from a later truck and wire it in.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

sgauvry

Re: Project Begun: 1985 F150 5.0 EFI engine dismantle

Hi Bill -

Nope. Just the basic 1985 F150. I'll do some research to find some pics, and parts.

Looks like a good way for me to go, and hopefully eliminate some of the 1985.5 issues.

Thanks again for the recommendation!

Steve

Steven A. Gauvry - 1985 F150 5.0 EFI

sgauvry

Re: Project Begun: 1985 F150 5.0 EFI engine dismantle

In reply to this post by Gary Lewis

Sounds like fun.

My family and I took a trip to the Outer Banks in NC past summer. I knew that on the way down we'd pass within a 100 miles or so of Vinny. Little did I know we were only a few miles away from his place. It would have been well worth a visit and would have really enjoyed meeting him, and would have done so had I known how close we actually were to his place. Next time, for sure!!!

Steven A. Gauvry - 1985 F150 5.0 EFI

sgauvry

Re: Project Begun: 1985 F150 5.0 EFI engine dismantle

This post was updated on .

In reply to this post by 85lebaront2

Bill -

I am curious about something you said in your post regarding a different ECM:"That gets away from some of the other 1985/1986 only parts and will give you some additional computer capabilities."

I am interested in knowing:
1. what parts are you indicating I could get away from by using a later ECM?
2. how I would select the correctly calibrated ECM?
3. what additional capabilities my computer would have?
4. how that would change my harness configuration?
5. would your suggestion simplify operation?

Thanks!!

Steven A. Gauvry - 1985 F150 5.0 EFI

85lebaront2

Re: Project Begun: 1985 F150 5.0 EFI engine dismantle

Administrator

Steve, any ECM 1987-1993 I believe for a 5.0L engine and AOD transmission will work fine on yours.

Changes to use a later ECM. EGR changed from two solenoid valves (one vacuum and one vent) to a single duty cycle solenoid valve.

MAP sensor, PN changed in 1987, I don't know exactly what changed and have used a later one on a 1986 truck.

Speed sensor, 1987 up have a speed sensor input, readily available item, becomes the speedometer gear holder and uses two wires to the ECM.

Air filter, 1987-1997 the filter is moved to a location on the left fender behind the radiator/washer tank, air is still taken from the rectangular hole on the left side of the radiator.

Improvements:
TPS is no longer extremely voltage sensitive requiring a setting to 1.0 volt at closed throttle +/- a very small tolerance, 1987 up, the closed throttle voltage is measured by the ECM and used as base value, minimum idle speed is set with the IAC disconnected to a specified RPM.
Newer MAP sensor was used from 1987-1997 on non-OBD-II trucks, is easier to find.
Newer EGR control solenoid is also used on many other applications and easy to locate.
Speed input allows ECM to tailor parameters better, EGR for one.
After a point, and I will have to find it, ECM can deliver live data to a good scan tool so actual functions, advance, idle air flow, engine temperature, air charge temperature, EGR %, throttle % can be viewed for diagnostic purposes.

Wiring, speed sensor wiring needs to be added, EGR reconfigured. Gary has a spreadsheet I sent him with the truck ECM pinouts. Starting in 1987 the engine harness was completely changed, it connects to the front harness with 4 round, weatherproof 8 pin plugs. The ECM connection is part of the front harness, no longer a "piggy back" system as the ECM was moved to the left air box in a recess. ECM power relay and fuel pump relay were also moved from inside the cab to a bracket on the rear of the new air filter location.

Some of these you may not want to fool with, the others, your call, it's your truck!

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

sgauvry

Re: Project Begun: 1985 F150 5.0 EFI engine dismantle

Wow! That is ALL significant.

I especially like this: "TPS is no longer extremely voltage sensitive requiring a setting to 1.0 volt at closed throttle +/- a very small tolerance, 1987 up, the closed throttle voltage is measured by the ECM and used as base value, minimum idle speed is set with the IAC disconnected to a specified RPM."

I'll have to give this some thought and may pursue it. I figure I might as well go all the way if I make the change, but may need some tutoring. I'll also confer with Gary when I'm ready to undertake those changes and ask him to share his spreadsheet.

Thanks!!

Steven A. Gauvry - 1985 F150 5.0 EFI

sgauvry

Re: Project Begun: 1985 F150 5.0 EFI engine dismantle

In reply to this post by 85lebaront2

I reread your post this morning.

Are you saying that if I utilize a 1987 ECM, I'll have to use a 1987 or up harness? Or is it possible to use the 86 harness I just got from Ray, with a few modifications?

I'd like to take advantage of the following:
1. Advantages of a less sensitive TPS
2. MAP sensor - Will my present MAP sensor work pr must I upgrade to a newer version?
3. Newer EGR control solenoid - although I'm not certain what that entails in terms of reconfiguration.

I want to utilize the harness I got from Ray. And it seems to me that each of the above three improvements are things that work in tandem with each other, so making improvement on one wouldn't make sense unless all three improvements are made. Correct?

Thanks!!

Steve

Steven A. Gauvry - 1985 F150 5.0 EFI

NotEnoughTrucks

Re: Project Begun: 1985 F150 5.0 EFI engine dismantle

Steve, at a very quick glance, I don't see any wiring changes between the 85/86 ECU and the later ECU's. That said, you would have to stay away from any ECU application that also controlled an electronically shifted transmission.For most features, the 85/86 wiring harness would be fine.

I think Bill has mentioned a different MAP sensor and should you choose an ECU that supports live data monitoring, I believe you would have to add the extra wires.

For the greatest part though, I think you should be able to adapt any SD EECIV ECU. I have some Haynes level drawings that help to compare the pinouts. I'll send them to you by email.

85lebaront2

Re: Project Begun: 1985 F150 5.0 EFI engine dismantle

Administrator

There are differences, first because the 1985.5-1986 EGR system is different from later ones, second, no speed input on the early ones, third, no brake switch input, VPWR is on pin #5 and pin #57, later only on pin #57.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

Gary Lewis

Re: Project Begun: 1985 F150 5.0 EFI engine dismantle

Administrator

I have an '87 EVTM if y'all need pages from it.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

NotEnoughTrucks

Re: Project Begun: 1985 F150 5.0 EFI engine dismantle

In reply to this post by NotEnoughTrucks

Going to revise my guess.

There certainly are differences. Did a spreadsheet.

If live data is what you are after, 92 and later ECUs should work. Looks like some 6 cyl applications got it in 90/91. Key to look for is in the EEC test connector to see if it has the two extra wires. DLC +/- in the spreadsheet attached. PDF and OpenOffice formats attached.

I saw somewhere that this data is in an RS485 format. Possibly it could be read with a terminal program?

Year_comparisons_SD.pdf

Year_comparisons_SD.ods

Gary Lewis

Re: Project Begun: 1985 F150 5.0 EFI engine dismantle

Administrator

You guys are doing a lot of work on this! I am impressed.

But, won't there be a lot of electrical rewiring to use a later ECU/PCM? Or, is it just adding a few wires and changing out the ECU?

And, any idea what ECU's? Just any '92 and later? Won't it have to be a 5.0L?

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

NotEnoughTrucks

Re: Project Begun: 1985 F150 5.0 EFI engine dismantle

Pretty much what Bill said a few posts up. Of course, it would have to be a compatible drivetrain.

Anyways, staying up late and it's still too cold to have any fun outside, so I color coded the compatibility.

I think an 87/89 ECU would be a relatively easy swap.Only a few functions to repin, delete some EGR functions and add a VSS circuit. Might be an issue if the diff does not have the tone ring!

Revised spreadsheet.

SD_compatibility.pdf

Year_comparisons_SD_compatibility.ods

sgauvry

Re: Project Begun: 1985 F150 5.0 EFI engine dismantle

Nice work! Thanks!!

Steven A. Gauvry - 1985 F150 5.0 EFI

85lebaront2

Re: Project Begun: 1985 F150 5.0 EFI engine dismantle

Administrator

I just sent Gary a spreadsheet with much the same information, but only went to 1987 primarily to show the differences between the 1985-86 and later versions. Other than the EGR and speed sensor additions there was a change on pin #5 from 12V in when the key is on to a ground connection tied to the speed sensor.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

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