Old School Cool

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Re: Old School Cool

ArdWrknTrk
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He hired it done.

In order to properly shim the end float you need a windowed case end to measure axial play.
 Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.
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Re: Old School Cool

Gary Lewis
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In reply to this post by Jacob84
I paid a professional driveline guy to rebuild it.  He had the use of the correct tools at the shop where he works, and I'm told that the ZF requires some special tools.  In fact, his friend that's rebuilt a number of transfer cases and differentials for me said he won't do ZF's as they take tools he doesn't have.
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: Old School Cool

Jacob84
Well I finally got fed up with my turbine/hurricane wheels. I like them a lot and they are the wheels the original wheels the owner bought for the truck (the truck had been in his family from new until the day I got it). I’m keeping the wheels on the truck because that’s how his family remembers the truck in it’s glory days.

But something has to be done about them. I know I need some brake pads that don’t produce a lot of dust but even with those they are pain to keep clean. They are bare aluminum and they absorb everything. Polishing them is an absolute pain because of all of the little nooks and pockets they have. So I’m going to paint them.

The plan is to clean them up real good, etch them, then paint a few coats of color then put some sort of clear coat over them so protect them. The colors I want to use are argent silver (Ford) and black. The “spokes” of the wheel will be argent and the “dishes/rough cast” parts will be black. It’ll tie in nice with the existing trim and it’ll also be a factory Ford color which will be a cool talking point. I’ll also get new center caps and lug nuts. I will be putting the original argent grille back on the truck too so that’ll also tie in with the wheels.



The wheels have had a rough life and they hail from 1976 so they got some age and I’m not expecting perfection. I use my truck so it’s okay if things are a little rough around the edges.

Like any project I have and what I know a lot of y’all have noticed with me, things are subject to change and I may go a completely different route. But right now this is the plan. If anyone has any thoughts on it let me know. I’m happy for opinions and advice.

The truck has also gone through some significant changes which I will also throw in here so things will be a little jumbled but thats okay, that’s how projects go
Jacob,
84 F150 base model, New 95 roller 351w with 5.0 ho roller cam, Summit Racing Max EFI 500, and other toys, MSD DIS, C6 trans, 9 inch rear 3.50, reg cab, long bed, 4x4. 33s, 2.5" Rough Country lift.
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Re: Old School Cool

Jacob84


Here is a proud picture for me. A lifted TTB without extreme -/+ camber. Threw some new -1.5 degree bushings in and it is nearly perfect.

Note to anyone aligning these TTBs, this is what I went through when I put the new bushings in. It's kinda hard to explain without looking at it but the toe was very negative. The way the Twin Traction Beam suspension cycles the camber is consistently dynamic which is good and bad. So, with very negative toe, the front of the wheels naturally want to meet each other like the tip of a triangle. The tires act as a wedge and since the the surface tension of the tires is high the only place for that force to go is back into the suspension. As it does that it effectively raises the the suspension up through the axle pivots because as the tires want to come close together the it must rotate the beams downward. It's a lot of tension. As the suspension forces the frame up it changes the camber angle just like picking the truck up on a lift. I reset the toe, now the tires aren't acting like wedges but tracking straight, not putting the suspension under tension. The same is true with very positive toe but it will try to pull the truck down and not push it up.
Jacob,
84 F150 base model, New 95 roller 351w with 5.0 ho roller cam, Summit Racing Max EFI 500, and other toys, MSD DIS, C6 trans, 9 inch rear 3.50, reg cab, long bed, 4x4. 33s, 2.5" Rough Country lift.
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Re: Old School Cool

Gary Lewis
Administrator
Jacob - Does your truck set out so the wheels are exposed to UV light?  If so I'm not sure what to tell you because the clear coatings that I'm familiar with are broken down by UV.  For instance, the clear on my powder coated aluminum wheels are showing signs of breaking down from the time they've set out.  And I would have thought that the clear powder would be better than clear paint.

But, I like your plans.  It is just that I'm not sure how long the clear will last.

As for the front end, it is good to know it can be done.  Can you tell us more about what lift you used and what else you did to align it?
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: Old School Cool

ArdWrknTrk
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I too think powder would be better than paint.
Not sure how much that would cost, but Rob (Sac) has 4 five lug steelies looking for a home.

Since you'd have to dismount the tires anyhow, you could swap them on and then there wouldn't be so much time pressure.
My tire guy charges $75 for four, new stems, balanced and mounted.
 Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.
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Re: Old School Cool

Sac79
In reply to this post by Gary Lewis
Gary Lewis wrote
As for the front end, it is good to know it can be done.  Can you tell us more about what lift you used and what else you did to align it?
Yes please, I would also like to know.
Rob

Eddy Myrtle '84 F150 300-6, Offenhauser C series intake, Edelbrock 1404(500cfm manual choke), EFI exhaust manifold, HEI dizzy, custom Painless harness, NP 435, NP 208, D44, 8.8"/3.08, 1.5" leveling coils, 265/75/16 tires.
Toyopet (Daily driver) '86 Toyota Pickup
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Re: Old School Cool

Jacob84
Gary- Yes, they truck sits outside and is not garage kept. That’s unfortunate, I figured the clear coat would stand up better to the elements. Bummer. Do you think if I simply painted them, no clearcoat it would last a good while? I know it’ll get chipped and will need to be touched up but I don’t want to repaint the whole wheel once a year.

Jim- fortunately I have a couple sets of wheels I can use. I’ve got some chrome steels from a 95 and also some steelies from a 69 f100 (and the truck to go with it). Here’s the problem with me and steel wheels...I absolutely love them. This look here is just perfect to me.



Once I put them on I would never take them off. And that’s an option, I’ve thought really hard about doing that.

Rob and Gary- So I have a 2.5 inch lift from Rough Country. It came with radius arm drop brackets, axle pivot drop brackets, taller coil springs, leaf springs, and shocks. If you’re gonna lift the truck more than a 1.5 inch leveling kit you need a lift system with drop brackets and such otherwise you’ll never be able to get it aligned properly. Those drop brackets are what bring the entire suspension down to a workable geometry.

The most aggravating part about lifting the TTB suspension is the camber. The taller the spring or space you put in the front the more positive camber you will have because it forces the beams to pivot downwards tipping the top of the tire out. Hard to visualize? Put the truck on a lift or jack it up by the frame and watch the tires, you’ll see what I mean. Fortunately there are bushings to fix this. The top ball joint fits into a bushing where camber can be changed by using different bushings, also caster with the correct type of bushing. There are completely “adjustable” bushings that are recommended but know that if you have to beat it in to place you will have to beat it out and they will break. They are made of cheap metal. I got solid bushings so I could beat them in and out, it’s frustrating.

After lifting or leveling a TTB get the toe as close as you can. I use the string method. Drive the truck around the block then look at the tires and see what the camber looks like. Take it to an alignment shop and have them put it on the rack and give you a print out of how much the rack says it’s out of spec. You can then order the correct bushings or they can do it but it’s not cheap, at least not in my case. Remember this before ordering bushings, look at your existing bushings. On top there will be numbers telling you what degree bushing it is camber and caster. Mine was a 0 degree camber and caster from the factory. If the camber is out 2 degrees positive but you have 1 degree positive bushings already installed then you need a negative 1 degree bushing not a negative 2 degree. Make sense? That’s just a rough example.

I know people say toe doesn’t effect camber but extreme toe does effect it on these trucks if the stars align. I honestly just ball parked what bushings I needed. I knew it was between 1 or 2 degrees positive so I ordered 1.5 degree negative bushings knowing that it probably wouldn’t be perfect. But I got pretty lucky.

All that being said I’m no alignment expert. I know how to use an alignment rack, I know the terms, I’ve had some hands on experience but I’m no mechanic. I also still have to get my caster figured out. It pulls to the right pretty good and have minimal steering return. I wrote this up quick so if y’all see a mistake or have more questions just let me know!👍🏻
Jacob,
84 F150 base model, New 95 roller 351w with 5.0 ho roller cam, Summit Racing Max EFI 500, and other toys, MSD DIS, C6 trans, 9 inch rear 3.50, reg cab, long bed, 4x4. 33s, 2.5" Rough Country lift.
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Re: Old School Cool

Gary Lewis
Administrator
Jacob - I think an exterior paint will stand up to the UV far better than clear coating.  So if it going to sit out you may want to use a paint intended for exterior use.

And thanks for the explanation on the lift.  Makes sense.  
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: Old School Cool

Sac79
In reply to this post by Jacob84
Thanks Jacob. I should have guessed that you had a proper lift kit. Ray recently installed something similar(his might have been 4"?), but he also got the alignment close, not sure which bushings he has, I think the adjustable ones.

Anyway, I only have leveling coils... And even with 3.5deg adjustable bushings I can't get to neutral camber. I'm searching for ones with more adjustment, but not sure if they exist. In hindsight I should also have done a proper lift, or left it stock.
Rob

Eddy Myrtle '84 F150 300-6, Offenhauser C series intake, Edelbrock 1404(500cfm manual choke), EFI exhaust manifold, HEI dizzy, custom Painless harness, NP 435, NP 208, D44, 8.8"/3.08, 1.5" leveling coils, 265/75/16 tires.
Toyopet (Daily driver) '86 Toyota Pickup
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Re: Old School Cool

Jacob84
Gary- Awesome, then I’ll just pass on the clear coat. And I’m glad it made sense, sometimes I can be a little scattered

Rob- Are the axle pivot bushings and balljoints still in good shape? If they’re worn out I wouldn’t think they’d give you more camber, most likely less. But I’m sure you’re looking for anything that could help, I know how frustrating it is. I believe Ray’s was a four inch lift. I’ve looked as well and can’t find any others with more adjustments. I have seen what I believe to be shims that go in between the spindle and the knuckle but I don’t think they’ll offer very much adjustment and it would be a pain to take all of that apart for only a small change. How much positive are the tires? Are they visibly tipped out? 1.5 inch leveling coils? How many miles do you have on them? A lot of questions but I’d like to help!
Jacob,
84 F150 base model, New 95 roller 351w with 5.0 ho roller cam, Summit Racing Max EFI 500, and other toys, MSD DIS, C6 trans, 9 inch rear 3.50, reg cab, long bed, 4x4. 33s, 2.5" Rough Country lift.
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Re: Old School Cool

Sac79
Everything is new. Yes, 1.5'" leveling coils, supposedly designed to work with stock components... I needed different shocks! The coils have been on the truck for 4 years, but only about 6-9 months with the full weight on it. Less than 500 miles. I'm hoping it will settle more, it certainly did in the beginning, but not much lately.

Currently the passenger's side is +1.8deg with the alignment bushing maxed out. The driver's side is +2.4 with about 1/4deg of adjustment left. It's not maxed out, because I was unable to get the hub assembled in that position. The angle between the knuckle and beam is so severe, that the axle came out the spindle at a slight angle. I had to back it off one setting to get everything on and then I was(and have been) unable to get it back to max. The machine at the shop showed 1.8deg as the limit for camber. So it's close, but the driver's side is visibly out, not much, but I notice it. The passenger's side looks neutral. My concern is that even with different bushings I would run into the same problem during assembly.

Anyway, the truck drives great. I'll keep an eye on the tire wear, but my gut feeling is that I'll be more likely to replace the tires from age rather than wear...
Rob

Eddy Myrtle '84 F150 300-6, Offenhauser C series intake, Edelbrock 1404(500cfm manual choke), EFI exhaust manifold, HEI dizzy, custom Painless harness, NP 435, NP 208, D44, 8.8"/3.08, 1.5" leveling coils, 265/75/16 tires.
Toyopet (Daily driver) '86 Toyota Pickup
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Re: Old School Cool

Jacob84
What brand were the coils? I’d be interested to know what the installed height of those particular coils are supposed to be and the spring rate. Your truck being a regular cab and inline six, it’s pretty light on the front end. Compare that to an extended cab with a 351w there’s a big difference in the weight on the front end and the coils are different. A lot of the times lift companies throw one set of coils at several different types of trucks when the factory had different coils for each application. If you had a set of leveling coils truly meant for an extended cab with a heavier motor in you truck I could see them lifting your reg cab truck up higher therefore changing the camber.

There is also a chance that it will settle significantly. Mine definitely did. When I first put the lift on I could’ve had 3 degrees of positive camber.

Also doesn’t hurt to lay under the truck and just look for anything that is out of whack. Crawl around with a tape measure and measure the coils, height of each corner of the truck, etc. Could reveal some interesting details or point you in a direction. Something obviously isn’t right. You might have already done a lot of that, sounds like you’ve been battling it for awhile, but there’s where I would start.

If the truck drives great and it’s not something that really bothers you then run it. I bet it’ll settle some too. If it makes you feel any better, most guys, that have been around the block a few times, that I know just expect these trucks to wear tires funny. Not that it’s an excuse to not try and get it right but it’s not uncommon for stuff like this.
Jacob,
84 F150 base model, New 95 roller 351w with 5.0 ho roller cam, Summit Racing Max EFI 500, and other toys, MSD DIS, C6 trans, 9 inch rear 3.50, reg cab, long bed, 4x4. 33s, 2.5" Rough Country lift.
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Re: Old School Cool

Sac79
After searching for the info on the coils, I've probably found the root of the issue too. They are supposedly Procomp 24212 2" lift coils, probably 1/2" too much... Bushings AC Delco 45K6526.

Anyway, thanks for trying to help. I'm hoping it settles some more, but if it doesn't I'm content to drive it as is. I might change out the coils(maybe to a true lift) sometime in the distant future...
Rob

Eddy Myrtle '84 F150 300-6, Offenhauser C series intake, Edelbrock 1404(500cfm manual choke), EFI exhaust manifold, HEI dizzy, custom Painless harness, NP 435, NP 208, D44, 8.8"/3.08, 1.5" leveling coils, 265/75/16 tires.
Toyopet (Daily driver) '86 Toyota Pickup
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Re: Old School Cool

Jacob84
I would say that would be the most probable explanation too. I’m sure it’ll settle a little more from what I’ve seen. If you decide to lift it and have questions I’d be more than happy to help. I’ve got experience with Rough Country and there are a few things they don’t tell you. But in general there are options for the TTB from a small 2.5 inch lift to a full blown prerunner set up with cut and turned beams and coilovers (Solo Motorsports, they have some slick stuff but it’s not cheap). Depends on how much you want to spend and what you want to do.

Not a problem, I’m happy to help anytime I can!
Jacob,
84 F150 base model, New 95 roller 351w with 5.0 ho roller cam, Summit Racing Max EFI 500, and other toys, MSD DIS, C6 trans, 9 inch rear 3.50, reg cab, long bed, 4x4. 33s, 2.5" Rough Country lift.
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Re: Old School Cool

Jacob84
So this is kinda what I’m looking to do to my wheels. Looks pretty good?



I’m also open to just painting the entire wheel argent silver like this.



 I don’t want the styling of the truck to look too busy. It’s already got a two tone paint job, chrome bumpers, and black plastic trim. There’s a lot going on. What do y’all think? Here are some more pictures of the truck.







Excuse the door, decades old body work from where the original owner ran a fork lift into it. And I was test fitting some steps I got off the parts truck. They’re supposedly worth some money. I’ll also be swapping out the grille for the original argent grille.
Jacob,
84 F150 base model, New 95 roller 351w with 5.0 ho roller cam, Summit Racing Max EFI 500, and other toys, MSD DIS, C6 trans, 9 inch rear 3.50, reg cab, long bed, 4x4. 33s, 2.5" Rough Country lift.
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Re: Old School Cool

Gary Lewis
Administrator
I like the two-tone plan.  Maybe paint the ribs silver instead of clear-coating them?
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: Old School Cool

ArdWrknTrk
Administrator
In reply to this post by Jacob84
I really like the wheels with the Yokohama's on them.
But like you I'm a huge fan of steelies with the type 3 wheel covers.

I can't begin to tell you which way to go.
But I hope you're really happy to see those wheels whenever you walk out to your truck.  
 Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.
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Re: Old School Cool

Sac79
x3 for two-tone...
Rob

Eddy Myrtle '84 F150 300-6, Offenhauser C series intake, Edelbrock 1404(500cfm manual choke), EFI exhaust manifold, HEI dizzy, custom Painless harness, NP 435, NP 208, D44, 8.8"/3.08, 1.5" leveling coils, 265/75/16 tires.
Toyopet (Daily driver) '86 Toyota Pickup
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Re: Old School Cool

Jacob84
Exactly, I’ll be painting the the spokes silver and the pockets black, give a nice contrast

If the steelies I have could handle a 12.5 inch wide tire I’d have a very hard decision to make. Whenever I do something like this I just go for it. I know whatever I do I’ll grow to love it lol.

Looks like I’ll be moving forward with painting them, will keep y’all updated



Jacob,
84 F150 base model, New 95 roller 351w with 5.0 ho roller cam, Summit Racing Max EFI 500, and other toys, MSD DIS, C6 trans, 9 inch rear 3.50, reg cab, long bed, 4x4. 33s, 2.5" Rough Country lift.
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