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Nothing Special's '71 Bronco

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Gary Lewis

Re: Nothing Special's '71 Bronco

Administrator

I agree that the bar will look better curved.

As for closing off the tube, be careful as then there's no way for water to get out. So if the bolt holding the fender leaks you'll have moisture in there that will cause problems. And, you don't want the thing sealed while you are welding to it, so you'll want to leave that bolt hole open until the very end.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

Nothing Special

Re: Nothing Special's '71 Bronco

If I don't close the ends of the tube I think they'll be pretty susceptible to trail damage. 3/16" wall isn't very heavy for 4" square tubing, so especially at the ends I think they'd get deformed pretty bad, pretty quickly. Closing the ends won't prevent all damage, but I think it'll be a lot more reasonable that way (I thought about going up to 1/4" wall which would "only" add ~15 lbs per side, but that's the kind of thought process that leads to an overweight vehicle).

Plus again the closed ends will give a more "finished" look.

But I'm thinking there's no way with closed ends I'll be able to prevent water from accumulating. I could put a drain hole in it, but then some crud will collect in there too and hold moisture, so I don't know that that would be a net positive.

So my thought is to put a bunch of WD-40 in there after it's welded up. Hopefully that will protect the metal well enough.

And yes, leaving the bolt hole open while welding is a good idea (although I suspect my welds will be pretty good vents on their own!).

Bob
Sorry, no '80 - '86 Ford trucks
"Oswald": 1997 F-250HD crew cab short box, 460, E4OD, 4.10 gears
"Pluto": 1971 Bronco, 302, NV3550 5 speed, Atlas 4.3:1 transfer case, 33" tires
"the motorhome": 2015 E-450-based 28' class C motorhome, 6.8L V-10
"the Dodge": 2007 Dodge 2500, 6.7L Cummins

ArdWrknTrk

Re: Nothing Special's '71 Bronco

Administrator

Just clip the inside corner of the end caps.
You can fill it with some drain oil and roll it around.
On the Bronco you can flush end to end with a hose.

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

Gary Lewis

Re: Nothing Special's '71 Bronco

Administrator

In reply to this post by Nothing Special

I hadn't thought about the trail damage, and didn't realize the ends will be that visible, so I understand the desire to close them.

But a drain hole will only get plugged. I will never forget the morning in Flagstaff when I realized my boat trailer's three cross members were rusted through from the inside. It was 6 am on a Sunday morning and I was sitting on a picnic table drinking a cup of coffee and looked over at the trailer and spotted cracks in the center of all three cross members. We were headed home that day and it was pretty obvious that they would drop the 5,000 lb boat on the axles while on the interstate.

They had rusted through from the inside due to the weep holes having gotten plugged. And all three appeared to be equally bad, which suggests that the odds of that happening are 100%. So I wouldn't go that way and would seal them up with the exception of the fender bolt hole and use it to spray in a preservative. Then seal it with thread locker on the bolt.

But I'm not sure WD40 is the right thing to squirt in there. I don't know what is, but I think WD40 is volatile enough that it will eventually dry out. Even WD-40® Specialist® Long-Term Corrosion Inhibitor says it only "Protects metal from rust and corrosion for up to 2 years".

What about something like EASTWOOD INTERNAL FRAME COATING?

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

ArdWrknTrk

Re: Nothing Special's '71 Bronco

Administrator

What about a soup of beeswax and bar oil?

That stuff is tenacious, and won't come off!

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

Gary Lewis

Re: Nothing Special's '71 Bronco

Administrator

In reply to this post by ArdWrknTrk

ArdWrknTrk wrote

Just clip the inside corner of the end caps.
You can fill it with some drain oil and roll it around.
On the Bronco you can flush end to end with a hose.

Jim - I think the problem is that he needs to weld the ends in while the tube is out of the vehicle so he can get to all sides to weld. Then he'll weld the tube into the vehicle. So he can't put the oil in prior to welding in the tube, and can't roll it round afterwards.

That's why I think he needs to seal it and put some preservative inside.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

ArdWrknTrk

Re: Nothing Special's '71 Bronco

Administrator

Look up 'Schutz Gun'

Cheap toilet rings are $2 and a gallon of bar oil shouldn't be more than 10.
For $20 you have enough to seal three undercarriages.
Dust stuck in it only makes it stronger.

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

grumpin

Re: Nothing Special's '71 Bronco

Used to use this on hulls of seaplanes and the floats on float planes. Good stuff.

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cspages/paralketone.php

Dane
1986 F250HD SC XLT Lariat 4x4 460 C6-Sold
1992 Bronco XLT 4x4 351W E4OD
1998 GMC Sierra SLE K1500 350 4L60E
Arizona

Nothing Special

Re: Nothing Special's '71 Bronco

In reply to this post by Gary Lewis

Gary Lewis wrote

ArdWrknTrk wrote

Just clip the inside corner of the end caps.
You can fill it with some drain oil and roll it around.
On the Bronco you can flush end to end with a hose.

Jim - I think the problem is that he needs to weld the ends in while the tube is out of the vehicle so he can get to all sides to weld. Then he'll weld the tube into the vehicle. So he can't put the oil in prior to welding in the tube, and can't roll it round afterwards.

That's why I think he needs to seal it and put some preservative inside.

I think Jim's thought was to leave big enough holes at both ends (like in one lower corner of each end) so I could put a garden hose against one hole and flush everything out the other end. That might work, but I think I'd rather have it pretty well sealed with some preservative in it.

And although I could get at the ends enough to weld them on after the tube is on the vehicle, that definitely wouldn't be the easy way to do it. And I don't see much benefit to welding them on later, so I'll probably do them off the vehicle.

But I definitely don't want to put the oil in before welding the tubes to the vehicle. Pouring a bunch of heat into tubes filled with oil doesn't sound like a great idea. And the tubes will be welded to the body tub. There's no decent way around that.

That Par-Al-Ketone and also the beeswax sound like stuff that stuff that more needs to be applied. What about just pouring a pint or so of bar oil in each tube? It won't get the upper surfaces very well, but water won't ever pool on that either. Although I suppose enough water in the tube and the oil would float away from the steel so it could rust under the oil but in contact with the water.

Still, I think that will work well enough. So I guess that's how I'm leaning right now.

FuzzFace2

Re: Nothing Special's '71 Bronco

What you need is this https://www.eastwood.com/eastwood-internal-frame-coating-14oz-aerosol.html
You could weld up both ends, drill a small hole for the straw to coat the inside and then seal the hole with RTV
I have used it on a buddies 1 year only hood to spray between the frame and skin and the front edge where they rust out. I did this years ago and then moved so cant say how it is holding up but had to be better then nothing.
Dave ----

Dave G.
81 F100 flare side 300 six / AA OD / NP435 / 2.75 gear
http://cars.grantskingdom1.com/index.php/1980-Ford-F100?page=1
81 F100 style side 300 six/SROD parts truck -RIP
http://cars.grantskingdom1.com/index.php/1981-Ford-F100

grumpin

Re: Nothing Special's '71 Bronco

In reply to this post by Nothing Special

I was talking to a friend today who is an aircraft mechanic also and he said they have to check a tube every five years and apply either par al ketone or linseed oil.

He said last time they looked it was coated and some of it was still wet after five years. And its not sealed.

Dane
1986 F250HD SC XLT Lariat 4x4 460 C6-Sold
1992 Bronco XLT 4x4 351W E4OD
1998 GMC Sierra SLE K1500 350 4L60E
Arizona

Nothing Special

Re: Nothing Special's '71 Bronco

Actual progress tonight!

I started off cutting a chunk off the end of one of my 6' lengths of 4x4. That was mostly to have a smaller piece to use to mock up how the actual 4x4 will fit and also to practice cutting it off with the death wheel (that worked well enough that I think I can do all of my cuts that way rather than bringing them into work to use the cutoff saw).

Then I started getting the front fender and the bottom of the "A" pillar out of the way. I started by cutting off about the bottom 1" of the fender. That put the cut off edge about 3" below where the top of the 4x4 will be, so I'll have a good flange to bolt to the top of the 4x4 after the bottom of the fender is bent over (see the next picture).

This picture also shows the bottom section of the "A" pillar still in place. My thought was to bend it forward so I could weld it to the top of the 4x4. But I realized that it's in way too bad shape for that, so I just cut it off slightly above where the top of the 4x4 will be (cut out after this picture).

This picture also shows the flange on the back edge of the fender that needed to go away before I'd be able to bend the fender up.

So then I cut off the bottom corner of the fender (along with the flange from the top of the 4x4 down), and cut off the flange on the front edge of the fender (actually the bottom corner behind the front tire).

Next I needed a way to bend the fender straight, in spite of the contouring along the tire opening. So I took a couple small pieces of angle iron and C-clamped them together with the top edge of the inner one along the line I wanted to bend it on.

Then it was pretty easy to grab the C-clamps and twist them in and up to bend the sheetmetal.

It now looks like the 4x4 will fit in, but looks can be deceiving. There are still some remnants of the disintegrated "A" pillar on the vertical piece that will be behind the 4x4. And I'll need to do much the same as what I did here to the "B" pillar and the rear fender. So this step in the project isn't done, but I was. So I declared victory and quit for the night!

Gary Lewis

Re: Nothing Special's '71 Bronco

Administrator

That looks like a LOT of progress. Not only did you get several things done, you figured out how to bend the fender neatly. Well done!

But with as thin as some of that metal may be you may have some problems welding it to the 4x4. You said you are going to drill holes in the sheet metal and weld it through them. But I would worry that the disparity in metal thickness will make it hard to get enough heat to the 4x4 w/o vaporizing the sheet metal.

Have you considered a body panel adhesive instead of welding?

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Nothing Special

Re: Nothing Special's '71 Bronco

Not really (maybe I should?). I don't have any experience with body panel adhesives, but my impression is that they are intended to work on smoother surfaces. As rough as this sheetmetal is I don't know that it would work well.

And maybe I'm just being naive, but I don't think I'll have too much trouble getting enough heat to the 4x4. My plan is to drill 1/2" - 3/4" holes in the sheetmetal and to strike the arc in the center of the hole, right on the 4x4 (and of course the ground will be hooked directly to the 4x4). Then to sort of "sneak" out into the sheetmetal.

Also I don't figure I need GREAT penetration in the 4x4. If I was trying to weld two pieces of 3/16" thick steel together I'd want to get at least most of the way through both. But as long as I'm actually melting the surface of the 4x4 (and not just globbing molten metal on top of it) I should be OK here.

So my plan is to tell my automatic welder that the metal is maybe 2 - 3 times thicker than the sheetmetal, and probably turn the wire feed rate down a bit. I'll see what happens when I get started welding (maybe this weekend if things go well?). But that's the hope anyway.

Gary Lewis

Re: Nothing Special's '71 Bronco

Administrator

That plan will probably work fine. But if the first one doesn't work I'd rethink it before going much farther.

As for the adhesive, I think any adhesive works better on rough rather than smooth items. The texture gives it more to hold to. But I don't really know that much about the various adhesives.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Nothing Special

Re: Nothing Special's '71 Bronco

More progress! Maybe not actually as much as last night, but it feels like a LOT more!

I started off grinding away the remains of the "A" pillar. That let me test fit my smaller chunk of 4x4. I think the angle from top to bottom that I roughed onto it looks about perfect! But I might angle it back from outside to inside to keep the inner corner farther away from the tire when it's turned.

Then I started into the mess that was the lower part of the ""B" pillar.

I also trimmed off the bottom of the fender and bent it in using my redneck sheetmetal brake. That let me test fit my little 4x4 in the rear. I haven't cut an end at the angle I expect to use for the rear, but the Sharpie line gives an idea

And with the fender flare (loosely) in place it looks pretty good! Although the 4x4 doesn't hang down quite as far as the original rocker. I'll have to decide what to do with the flare hanging lower than the new rocker. Trim it off and lose the finished end? Or take it off completely and remount it where it wants to be now?

Then I realized that the piece I was going to use for the actual rocker would fit in. It's too long, so I lined up the front end and let the rear stick back close to the tire. But it looks pretty good!

Gary Lewis

Re: Nothing Special's '71 Bronco

Administrator

That looks amazing! But in the last shot I would have said the front of the 4x4 was too far forward rather than the rear being too far back.

On the flair, can you reposition it? I think it needs to end at the 4x4 rather than hang down.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Nothing Special

Re: Nothing Special's '71 Bronco

The front is a little deceiving in the picture due to the lighting. The angle of the 4x4 runs right up into the inner edge of the fender. But there's a raised area around the fender that makes it look like the fender opening is about 1" back from where it actually is. So it looks like the 4x4 is about 1" too far forward. But it's not.

And in the rear you can see the 4x4 sticking about halfway from the inner edge of the flare to the tire. But I'm not concerned about it. When I cut the small chunk off yesterday I intentionally left it long (I REALLY didn't want it too short!).

I definitely won't have the flare hang below the bottom of the rocker. The question is how to do that. I could cut it off, but that will leave an unfinished end instead of the nice molded end it has now. Or I could pull the bottom of the flare forward so the end swings up. But that will change the lines of the fender, and will likely result in needing to trim more metal out of the fender (it's already trimmed, so I won't be losing a factory fender edge or the factory lines, those were gone before I bought this Bronco). Or I could remove it entirely and reattach it starting at that end. The back end is already cut off I think. Or I could move the entire thing up.

I'm not sure what I'll do yet, but I'm pretty sure something will seem like the obvious choice by the time I need to do it.

Gary Lewis

Re: Nothing Special's '71 Bronco

Administrator

Yes, I think it will be obvious when you get there.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

FuzzFace2

Re: Nothing Special's '71 Bronco

In reply to this post by Nothing Special

Nothing Special wrote

I definitely won't have the flare hang below the bottom of the rocker. The question is how to do that. I could cut it off, but that will leave an unfinished end instead of the nice molded end it has now. Or I could pull the bottom of the flare forward so the end swings up. But that will change the lines of the fender, and will likely result in needing to trim more metal out of the fender (it's already trimmed, so I won't be losing a factory fender edge or the factory lines, those were gone before I bought this Bronco). Or I could remove it entirely and reattach it starting at that end. The back end is already cut off I think. Or I could move the entire thing up.

I'm not sure what I'll do yet, but I'm pretty sure something will seem like the obvious choice by the time I need to do it.

IIRC the flares are plastic.
If you don't have one yet might be time to buy aplastic welder.
Once you get the "rocker" in place and welded you can trim the flare with a hack saw and heat to bend the edges back where they need to be and weld it and finish it to look good.

If you don't want to go with the plastic welder look into https://www.plastex.net/I have used it and works great.
Dave ----

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