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Miss fire help

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Gary Lewis

Re: Miss fire help

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If the torque converter unlocked and re-locked it would give a shock that might be thought to be a misfire. So a bad wire/connection?

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

Danny G

Re: Miss fire help

Gary Lewis wrote

If the torque converter unlocked and re-locked it would give a shock that might be thought to be a misfire. So a bad wire/connection?

Could be, that seems like it would be a pretty easy fix. Would also be worth noting per the post the odometer is reading around 400k miles, no idea if it is the original engine or if it has or has not been rebuilt in the past. The owner is the Men's/Women's rifle coach at The Citadel, given the paint scheme of white with blue stripes, I think until now this was a used to ferry groups of Cadets to and from rifle matches for the last 24 years. Point being before it gets swapped into my truck we are also looking at a rebuild or using the block as a core swap for a reman like this XP1:
https://spprecision.com/products/ford-49-300-inline-6-long-block-crate-engine-sale.html?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIkpeBrJDq5QIVjh6tBh219wWXEAQYAiABEgIE7_D_BwE

What made me consider it not being a misfire, in addition to it happened after they put a new transmission in and GM just had an issue quite similar that plague a few of my friends Silverado's, the torque converter needed a different kind of fluid in it, or it caused what was felt like a random misfire.

1986 F-150|Standard Cab|4x2|300Six|C6Transmission w/3.08 rear|Name:TBD
2021 Ranger XLT Super Crew

Gary Lewis

Re: Miss fire help

Administrator

And, if I remember correctly Honda had something like that. Wrong fluid caused problems.

By the way, Scotty told me yesterday that they do a build on the 300.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Danny G

Re: Miss fire help

Gary Lewis wrote

By the way, Scotty told me yesterday that they do a build on the 300.

Care to expand? I'm kinda clueless on this one.

1986 F-150|Standard Cab|4x2|300Six|C6Transmission w/3.08 rear|Name:TBD
2021 Ranger XLT Super Crew

Danny G

Re: Miss fire help

In reply to this post by Gary Lewis

Gary Lewis wrote

And, if I remember correctly Honda had something like that. Wrong fluid caused problems.

Ill hook up the computer reader to it when I go see the van. If it's a miss fire it should throw a code, if its not then I may take it to the local transmission shop have them pull off the transmission and check everything out.

1986 F-150|Standard Cab|4x2|300Six|C6Transmission w/3.08 rear|Name:TBD
2021 Ranger XLT Super Crew

Gary Lewis

Re: Miss fire help

Administrator

In reply to this post by Danny G

TheScatch wrote

Gary Lewis wrote

By the way, Scotty told me yesterday that they do a build on the 300.

Care to expand? I'm kinda clueless on this one.

I wish I could, but I didn't quiz him as to what I he does on the 300. Maybe you can call/email and ask him? His intro is here in the New Members Start Here folder with his contact info.

Having said that, he has quite a bit of experience with the EEC-IV EFI systems. For instance, my 460 build is said to be "SD friendly". So perhaps he knows how far he can push the 300 and keep the speed density system happy?

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Danny G

Re: Miss fire help

Took a look at the van today a little like muffled back fireish sound here and there.. maybe my imagination after warmed up. No codes from the computer, granted this code reader is night and day from my obdII reader I could have done it wrong

Crawled under it best I could in the 45 degree rain... Looks like a very clean e4OD under there.

The 300 has a different manifold set up to fit in the van that was interesting.

Owner says it will ride fine, then randomly the engine stutters. OD is showing 302k miles but he says it has 400k. Said he really wanted to get the engine to 500k lol.

Starting to think it isn't a misfire issue... Either way the E4OD was put in by the Ford dealership down the road, it sat around while his relative tried to resolve the stutter issue. So not sure how long it's been sitting but he did say he flushed the lines and put new gas in it. @$1000 I could keep the transmission, get 3g alternator set up, Air-conditioning components and be up on money if I scrapped everything else.

Really curious what the issue is though.

1986 F-150|Standard Cab|4x2|300Six|C6Transmission w/3.08 rear|Name:TBD
2021 Ranger XLT Super Crew

grumpin

Re: Miss fire help

Converter lock up solenoid?

Dane
1986 F250HD SC XLT Lariat 4x4 460 C6-Sold
1992 Bronco XLT 4x4 351W E4OD
1998 GMC Sierra SLE K1500 350 4L60E
Arizona

Danny G

Re: Miss fire help

Possible I'm going to have to drive it and see will be taking it home this week.

1986 F-150|Standard Cab|4x2|300Six|C6Transmission w/3.08 rear|Name:TBD
2021 Ranger XLT Super Crew

Gary Lewis

Re: Miss fire help

Administrator

How about locking out the overdrive to see what happens. And if that doesn't change anything then maybe put a light across the solenoid and extend the wires up into the cab to see if the light flickers when that happens.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Danny G

Re: Miss fire help

Sounds like a plan. Have to hit up the ATM Monday and Tuesday ($500/day limit- nonlocal branch)then will head over to get it maybe Wednesday.

He is a gun guy, thought about maybe busting an old collectable out of my closest and seeing what he thought.

1986 F-150|Standard Cab|4x2|300Six|C6Transmission w/3.08 rear|Name:TBD
2021 Ranger XLT Super Crew

Gary Lewis

Re: Miss fire help

Administrator

Sounds like you can even drive it home, right? Should be easy. And having a complete vehicle sitting there with all the goodies should make the swap much easier.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Danny G

Re: Miss fire help

In reply to this post by Gary Lewis

He almost made it sound like it happens like clock work on the way home when he stops at a specific intersection. This is sound like a stall issue and not a misfire, probably why Ford replaced the transmission. I'm a bit wary in trusting people since the issues that happened when I bought my truck. He said the new transmission/install cost him around $3k that sounds about right. It looked pretty clean, there was a plastic box on the divers side of the transmission looked pretty pristine so I think he is telling
the truth. Against the advice of others replaced it with a new not remaned unit couldn't solve the issue and he let it sit hoping to fix it one day.

My wife isn't the happiest about the move, doesn't want another project. I had to explain that a E4OD with under 100 miles on it alone was a steal at $1000 let alone anything else I can use, even if I scrapped the block.

Will have to incorporate that OD button from the column into the dash or something of the truck but that's another story.

1986 F-150|Standard Cab|4x2|300Six|C6Transmission w/3.08 rear|Name:TBD
2021 Ranger XLT Super Crew

Gary Lewis

Re: Miss fire help

Administrator

It is a steal @ $1000 for just the tranny alone. I paid $2400 for my E4OD, although it was seriously upgraded and has a very stout torque converter with it.

If it does it at the same place each time, perhaps it is at the same point in the warm up of the engine or transmission? IOW, he gets to the same place from a cold start on his way to or from work and it hiccups? Or maybe the frame twists due to a weird angle of the road and a connection lets go?

On the OD button, I'm hoping to use a later shift lever with the OD button in it when I do Dad's truck. Somehow incorporate the later shift lever in the Bullnose shifter?

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Danny G

Re: Miss fire help

Been doing some research on similar failures. Going to have to pull codes when the engine is running and warmer than it was.

Others with a similar issue had leak in lines to the MAP sensor, bad map sensor, iac, egr issues, and bad ICM ground/voltage.

So looks like it could ba a Gambit of things but gives me a place to start looking. None of those things were on the list of work done by the PO.

1986 F-150|Standard Cab|4x2|300Six|C6Transmission w/3.08 rear|Name:TBD
2021 Ranger XLT Super Crew

Gary Lewis

Re: Miss fire help

Administrator

Good starting points.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

85lebaront2

Re: Miss fire help

Administrator

In reply to this post by Danny G

In addition to the codes (be sure your code reader can pull them) you really need to be able to read live data when it is acting up. You also need to take a good look at the transmission, by 1992 and definitely by 1995, Ford went to electronic speedometers in the trucks. This means no cable, early E4ODs used a cable with a speed sensor at the transmission end, later ones don't even have a hole for it. His issues could, believe it or not be caused by the speedometer PSOM as it generates the speed signal for the EEC and speed control systems.

If you can add a speed sensor, the speed control one will work as far as I know, if not 1988-1991 models had the in-line one at the transmission. Once that is done you need a computer to control it, this means either convert your truck to EFI, or purchase a stand alone transmission controller from a company like Baumann, their Optishift seems to be quite nice.

I'm not trying to rain on your parade, just warning you of some of the issues that I ran into.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

"Getting old is inevitable, growing up is optional" Darth Vader 1986 F350 460 converted to MAF/SEFI, E4OD 12X3 1/2 rear brakes, traction loc 3:55 gear, 160 amp 3G alternator Wife's 2011 Flex Limited Daily Driver 2009 Flex Limited with factory tow package Project car 1986 Chrysler LeBaron convertible 2.2L Turbo II, modified A413

Danny G

Re: Miss fire help

85lebaront2 wrote

In addition to the codes (be sure your code reader can pull them) you really need to be able to read live data when it is acting up. You also need to take a good look at the transmission, by 1992 and definitely by 1995, Ford went to electronic speedometers in the trucks. This means no cable, early E4ODs used a cable with a speed sensor at the transmission end, later ones don't even have a hole for it. His issues could, believe it or not be caused by the speedometer PSOM as it generates the speed signal for the EEC and speed control systems.

If you can add a speed sensor, the speed control one will work as far as I know, if not 1988-1991 models had the in-line one at the transmission. Once that is done you need a computer to control it, this means either convert your truck to EFI, or purchase a stand alone transmission controller from a company like Baumann, their Optishift seems to be quite nice.

I'm not trying to rain on your parade, just warning you of some of the issues that I ran into.

No I need all the Intel I can get. I'm hoping to be able to pull the whole Gambit (engine transmission, wire harness etc) out of this van as the van has the 4.9L EFI in it, mate it up with the Dakota digital gauge cluster. But if it gets too hairy that stand alone computer will be my fall back.

1986 F-150|Standard Cab|4x2|300Six|C6Transmission w/3.08 rear|Name:TBD
2021 Ranger XLT Super Crew

Gary Lewis

Re: Miss fire help

Administrator

Some of the speed transducers have a speedo cable output to drive the speedometer. And if I get the Arduino working you should be able to use the Bullnose gas gauge as you may want to change the fuel pump/sending unit to the one in the van. Or go with a comparable pump/sending unit for a pickup fuel tank.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Danny G

Re: Miss fire help

You know I got to thinking, what if that "backfire" type sound I was hearing was detonation. The PO did say it had a misfire randomly. Maybe this is a likely issue. Sounded like a muffled pop from the engine bay now and again after it warmed up. I haven't heard a pinging engine before but I did have a 85 300 that backfired like it was cool when you let off the gas and it reminded me of that but softer.

1986 F-150|Standard Cab|4x2|300Six|C6Transmission w/3.08 rear|Name:TBD
2021 Ranger XLT Super Crew

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