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Minor Re-org - Input Requested

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Gary Lewis

Minor Re-org - Input Requested

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The way the Fuel & Air Systems section is "organized" has raised my eyebrows each time I go there to look for something, but heretofore I've just shrugged and kept on trucking. However, this morning I realized I have a 200+ page document on EEC-V systems that I want to add, so I think now is the time to re-organize that section.

I've put together the Word document below to try to explain how I think it should be done, but really would like your help as there are several things that just don't fit very well. And I've included hot links for some of the things to make it easier for you to look at them.

Here are some of the ones nagging me:

1985-86 Fuel Systems: This covers both carbs and EFI. But at that point the EFI was only EEC-IV.

460 Fuel Systems: This is rather specific and covers both the carburetion awa electrical things.

EFI Idle Speed Adjustment: This is really just EEC-IV, so could be moved under that heading.

Fuel System Adjustments: I was thinking this could be a catch-all?

Fuel System Wiring: Yes, it is "fuel systems", but it is "electrical" as well. Should it be here or there? Or, both - by placing a page there that links to this page, or vice versa?

Fuel System Illustrations vs Part #'s: This section was done before I knew of "tabs", and I could consolidate things onto one page called something like Fuel System Part #'s & Illustrations. There'd be a tab for Illustrations and one for Part #'s. If you like that idea I can put it on the list to do when I can.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

ckuske

Re: Minor Re-org - Input Requested

Administrator

That makes sense to me, Gary. Two questions:

Where does Diagnostics go in the new organization? Maybe make a Carbureted Diagnostics page vs EFI?

I know my truck is a weird one - but I have a Motorcraft 2150 carb with EEC-IV thats under EFI in the new structure. Maybe just add a note on the 2150 page that CA trucks will have EEC-IV with TFI with a link to the EEC-IV page?

Chris

'84 F-150 XL 2WD Flareside, 302 w/ AOD transmission, Motorcraft 2150 feedback carb w/ CA Emissions, EEC-IV w/TFI, factory A/C, speed control - Info about me and my truck - My project thread

Gary Lewis

Re: Minor Re-org - Input Requested

Administrator

Good question, Chris! I left that out.

So I've revised it a bit to out 1985-6 Fuel System Adjustments as well as Diagnostics in Fuel System Adjustments. What do you think?

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

85lebaront2

Re: Minor Re-org - Input Requested

Administrator

On sorting things as far as fuel and emission systems go, on carburetors I would do a section for non-feedback and another for feedback. This also will get the EEC-III and early EEC-IV carburetor systems together.

EFI, I would do a good section on the 1985/86 5.0L systems particularly the trouble areas, (ground connection, idle adjustment and the solenoid chatter if the TPS voltage is too high). Also the fuel delivery, even if you address that in another section. I would have a supplemental section on the 1987-95 SD systems as they are very similar, but the change in EGR control, addition of a vehicle speed input and a number of different circuit locations on the EEC connector are important for someone wanting to upgrade their system. EEC-IV 1994-95 with MAF and sequential injection, again as a supplement for those who want to modernize a 300, 351W or 460. EEC-V as an information section more than an in detail as it only was in trucks 1996 and 1997 HD, after that the Modular motors came in.

Ignition systems, DS-II, DS-III (used on EEC-III) and then TFI, both distributor mounted (which is the only one a Bullnose would have) and remote mount.

Hope these help, but as has been said before, it is your site and I am glad it exists!

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

"Getting old is inevitable, growing up is optional" Darth Vader 1986 F350 460 converted to MAF/SEFI, E4OD 12X3 1/2 rear brakes, traction loc 3:55 gear, 160 amp 3G alternator Wife's 2011 Flex Limited Daily Driver 2009 Flex Limited with factory tow package Project car 1986 Chrysler LeBaron convertible 2.2L Turbo II, modified A413

Gary Lewis

Re: Minor Re-org - Input Requested

Administrator

Thanks, Bill. But I'm still trying to get my head around all you said. I think in some cases you are talking about additional pages or documents that we don't have yet and I'm trying to figure out how to organize what we already have. But it is good to think about what we might have in the future, so I'll see how to weave your ideas in.

However, I think you are on the right track with things at a high level: A carburetion section and an EFI section. Then we can organize within those to have feedback and non-feedback carbs separated, and the different EFI systems separated, with details about each.

Maybe part of the confusion is with the title of the section being "Fuel & Air Systems"? Perhaps it should be Carburetion & Fuel Injection? I say that because "Fuel & Air Systems" doesn't really imply electrical stuff, but when you throw in "Fuel Injection" it does. (Bill - I know what you are thinking. The Rochester system for the Fuelie didn't have any electrons in it. Nor did the K-Jetronic that was in my Audi. But the younger generation doesn't know about those systems.

)

So, y'all, what about calling the section "Carburetion & Fuel Injection"?

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

IowaTom

Re: Minor Re-org - Input Requested

Your attention to detail and care you have for those of us who drive & love these trucks blows my mind, Gary! Any question I've ever had in getting my truck rehabilitated has gotten a good answer, either from what you've posted or from guys chiming in.

Thank you for the time, effort and I'm sure money involved in making this a great source of help for neophytes like me. Now, back to peeling the onion...

'85 F150 XLT 4X4 with 300 c.i. six & NP435 four speed.
'63 Studebaker Avanti - 350/TH350
'59 Rambler Super - OHV 6 with 3-speed OD
'58 Studebaker Scotsman sedan - 289 with 3-speed OD

Gary Lewis

Re: Minor Re-org - Input Requested

Administrator

You are welcome, Tom. And don't forget your tissues.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

ckuske

Re: Minor Re-org - Input Requested

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In reply to this post by Gary Lewis

Works for me, sir. I also noticed Cold Starting Procedures is not in the new layout as well? Just a nit-pick.

Chris

'84 F-150 XL 2WD Flareside, 302 w/ AOD transmission, Motorcraft 2150 feedback carb w/ CA Emissions, EEC-IV w/TFI, factory A/C, speed control - Info about me and my truck - My project thread

85lebaront2

Re: Minor Re-org - Input Requested

Administrator

In reply to this post by Gary Lewis

Probably a valid point Fuel and air systems could include the air induction, and on the carburetors the pre-heat systems. The electrical portion of the EFI systems also gets into the ignition as the same trigger systems in the distributor are used for both, particularly once you go into sequential injection.

As engine management has moved from breaker points and carburetors (vergassers?) on to injection (einsprtiz?) and inductive and Hall effect triggers we now have DIS systems with individual coils so the fuel delivery is not only tailored to each cylinder, so is the ignition event. We also have drive by wire systems, with no mechanical connection from the accelerator pedal to the throttle.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

Gary Lewis

Re: Minor Re-org - Input Requested

Administrator

If we rename "Fuel & Air Systems" to "Carburetion & Fuel Injection" where would we put the air intake stuff? I hadn't thought about how renaming would exclude air intake, but it does seem to do so. On the other hand, "Fuel & Air Systems" seems to exclude the electrical side of things, and starting with the feedback systems there sure is a lot of electrical in there.

Perhaps we should just leave it as "Fuel & Air Systems" since they really do incorporate a lot of electrical things?

Or, as you pointed out, "Engine Management" has evolved from points and carbs to full-on systems that do everything, inc the throttle. So maybe it should be "Engine Management" and we include Ignition?

We can always put a page or a link from Documentation/Electrical/Ignition to Documentation/Engine Management/Ignition, or vice versa.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

85lebaront2

Re: Minor Re-org - Input Requested

Administrator

Gary, that sounds like a plan, those of us who grew up with dual point distributors, many different carburetor makes and styles think differently than the younger generations. My son, Matt, does understand them, not because he is 44 but because his first car was a 1965 Corsa 140, Delco distributor and 4 Rochester model H carbs. A few of his friends do also.

I would dare say that other than a few into old cars, most millennials are clueless when first confronted with an older vehicle (just look at some of the comments on Facebook). Engine management is what they would look for concerning fuel and ignition systems.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

Gary Lewis

Re: Minor Re-org - Input Requested

Administrator

We might could say something like "Engine Management (Carb's, EFI, etc.).

As for the younger generation, even my son has gotten used to drive-by-wire where there's effectively no throttle return spring. On Big Blue with the carb I had two such springs as I was trying to get a consistent idle speed, and never did, and when he first tried to drive it he couldn't depress the throttle. Thought it was broken.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

85lebaront2

Re: Minor Re-org - Input Requested

Administrator

Sounds good to me. Then you still have emission systems as a separate section.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

Gary Lewis

Re: Minor Re-org - Input Requested

Administrator

Chris - I missed your post, but Cold Starting Procedures are shown as part of Chokes under Carburetion. Basically all that video talks about is carbs and chokes thereupon, so it seemed like I could combine them on one page. Yes?

Bill - Good point. Should Emissions Systems still be separate? The early emissions systems, like thermactor, weren't electronic, but as soon as EEC came along it became part of that, as did EGR and vapor venting. So it seems like that is a fit as well. Yes?

Right now we only have two entries in Emissions Systems - Inferred Mileage and Thermactor. But I have the book on order that I'll scan and put on the site, and it needs to be part of Emissions Systems.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

85lebaront2

Re: Minor Re-org - Input Requested

Administrator

I think once the mechanical emission systems are defined, you can direct people to the EEC systems for later models. The Bullnose trucks are essentially one of the larger change models in Ford's trucks. 1980 everything was pretty simple mechanical control on emissions, by 1986 computer control of the emission system was well on it's way.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

ckuske

Re: Minor Re-org - Input Requested

Administrator

In reply to this post by Gary Lewis

Somehow I missed that, sorry! No other comments from me, looks good. Thanks for all your work on this.

Chris

'84 F-150 XL 2WD Flareside, 302 w/ AOD transmission, Motorcraft 2150 feedback carb w/ CA Emissions, EEC-IV w/TFI, factory A/C, speed control - Info about me and my truck - My project thread