Interior floor wet - thoughts?

Hi all,

Still just getting to know this truck, and slooooowly starting to tackle some of the simple stuff.  One of the first items was removing the rubber floor and pad underneath it, as it felt wet - and was.  The pad was dripping with water, and there were standing puddles once it came out.  As expected, there is some rust to go along with that, but not as bad as I would have thought.  See pictures, and my questions below them.  







A few questions I'd love your collective wisdom on:

Should I save the rubber floor?  It's in good condition, but with a wet pad that is also glued to the underside, it seems like a lot of trouble to use it again in the future

If I save it, do I remove the pad or just let it dry out?

If I trash the floor, any recommendations on what to use instead?  I don't need fancy, just protection from salt and water from my boots in the winter

Any thoughts on where the water came from?  Obviously the sky, but where I should focus on for sealing things up?

Thanks in advance!
Dave

BigDav782 wrote

A few questions I'd love your collective wisdom on:

Should I save the rubber floor?  It's in good condition, but with a wet pad that is also glued to the underside, it seems like a lot of trouble to use it again in the future

If I save it, do I remove the pad or just let it dry out?

If I trash the floor, any recommendations on what to use instead?  I don't need fancy, just protection from salt and water from my boots in the winter

Any thoughts on where the water came from?  Obviously the sky, but where I should focus on for sealing things up?

I would save the rubber floor mat, and not remove the pad.  Lay it out in the sun, upside down, and dry it out.  That won't take much and if you decide not to use it someone else might want it.

Some have said that they don't like the rubber floor mat as it traps moisture - pretty much as you've seen.  But with any leak the pad is going to get wet, and you do want a pad to lower the noise and heat in the cab.  So even with carpet you'll have a wet floor and it is hard to get it completely dry.  

The key is getting the cab weather tight.  And one of the many sources of leaks is the cowl seal.  Another is the windshield seal.  Another is the vent in the kick panel - if you have them.  I'd get the hose out and put someone in the cab and find the leak(s).

Now for the floor.  Yours looks much like Big Blue's, and I'm going to get it "surgically clean", and treat it with several coats of POR15.  (There are other brands that may be better, but POR15 is what I have so I'll use it.)  That will bond with the rust and seal the floor such that the rust is stopped and no moisture will get through in future.

It looks like it is mostly on the passenger side. First question, does your truck have air conditioning? If not, look at the passenger side air vent, you may even want to remove it and check inside.

The cowl drains on these trucks clog easily making water stand in the drain area, which is where the vents are. The other issue, my truck had no sealer inside the passenger side and the water was actually coming in at the corner seam, where the firewall, cowl and floor all join. From there it ran down to the pad under the driver's side carpet and rusted part of the lip the door weatherstrip goes over.

Windshield leaks are also not uncommon on 30+ year old vehicles. If you have someone who can help you, with the carpet and pad still out, get in the truck and have it sprayed with a hose while you watch for the "trickles" and know where it is coming from.

If it is coming from the corner weld area, spray undercoating inside that air box will fix the problem. On the cowl vent, if you are removing it (as Gary puts it "peeling the layers of the onion") I would suggest a piece of the good plastic screen under the panel to keep small leaves out, Ford knew there was an issue and changed the design in 1987.

BigDav782 wrote

Any thoughts on where the water came from?  Obviously the sky, but where I should focus on for sealing things up?

Thanks in advance!

You've already gotten some good advice up above, so I'll just mention that I documented some of my recent adventures in floor replacement in my ongoing thread.  You may find something useful there.

Thanks guys.  And if I were to be so new to this adventure that I didn't know what a "cowl" was...could you point me in the right direction?

No air conditioning on my truck, and I definitely need to replace that seal in the engine compartment that I've seen folks talk about here before.  Glad that there are instructions already for me to use!  

Looks like an order of POR15 might need to come my way.  

Thanks Matthew for pointing me to your thread!

The cowl is the area between the windshield and hood. The metal will come off after removing the wiper arms and removing the screws. I believe there are 5, but it's been a while. Two face forward under the hood, the others are in the slots and you almost have to feel for them.

The hood will need to be raised for clearance.

BigDav782 wrote

Should I save the rubber floor?  It's in good condition...

Absolutely.  If not for yourself, for someone else.  But you won't find anything that fits or works as well, even if you spend $500.

BigDav782 wrote

...with a wet pad that is also glued to the underside, it seems like a lot of trouble to use it again in the future

Not really - it's just water.  If it was motor oil, or blood - yeah, burn it.

BigDav782 wrote

...do I remove the pad or just let it dry out?

Lay it wet-side up in the sun; preferably with a steady stream of air moving over it.

BigDav782 wrote

...any recommendations on what to use instead?  I don't need fancy, just protection from salt and water from my boots in the winter

Regardless of the visible floor covering, adding a layer or 3 of foil-faced mastic (like DynaMat or Peel&Seal) will make the truck quieter & more-comfortable.

BigDav782 wrote

Any thoughts on where the water came from?  Obviously the sky...

Not necessarily.  It could be splash from the front tires, or coolant leaking from the heater core, or (if the truck had A/C) condensate.  Depending on recent weather, it could also simply have been tracked in on your shoes & clothing (including an umbrella).

BigDav782 wrote

...where I should focus on for sealing things up?

All the holes in the firewall & cowl, particularly on the passenger side (since you didn't post any pics of water on the driver's side).  Pay attention to the heater core penetrations and the air ducts.





The windshield sealant (of course - those black drips on the floor are from someone attempting to re-seal a badly-installed w/s).  The galvanized plugs in the footwells for the body bolts (they can be replaced with the later plastic/rubber plugs from '87-96 trucks).  The rain gutters above the doors, and the short seams between them & the windshield.  Any holes in the roof (clearance lights, antennae, etc.).

There are also drains at the bottoms of the A- & B-pillars, visible from below.  They probably have rubber plugs (which may be hardened/cracked/displaced).  On later trucks, they're factory-sealed with foam rubber adhesive & thin steel plates.

Inspect the wiring under the driver's threshold carefully - the water will corrode it into green slime.

BigDav782 wrote

...what a "cowl" was...could you point me in the right direction?

Ford uses that term generally to refer to the roughly-rounded sections of sheet metal that surround the roughly-vertical firewall: the channel containing the wiper linkage, and the forward areas of the lower A-pillars where the cowl drains are.

Steve83 wrote

The windshield sealant (of course - those black drips on the floor are from someone attempting to re-seal a badly-installed w/s).

Hey Steve - that 'someone' being Ford, right? I've seen these drips on the floor of almost, if not all, of the floor pans I've looked at. I never thought enough of them to even piece together that they are from the windshield sealant until you said that.

kramttocs wrote

...that 'someone' being Ford, right? I've seen these drips on the floor of almost, if not all, of the floor pans I've looked at.

No.  Ford used VERY thick butyl mastic or polyurethane adhesive.  Removing a broken w/s (which is VERY common, which is why you've seen it so often) requires cutting that seal - usually with a sharp knife.  But it takes MANY passes with the knife, which results in many "lips" of old sealant.  It's common that the rearward-most lip (the one closest to the sheet metal) is NOT the one that finally lets the glass go.  So there may be several "layers" of old sealant that stay on the body, and very few w/s installers clean the old sealant away before gluing the new w/s down.  That means that there are fine slits in the old sealant all around the w/s just waiting to allow rain to seep in.  Rather than cut it out & try again (which risks breaking the new w/s), they just try to squirt in that watery black sealant, which drips all over the place.  So instead of putting down paper to catch it, they sometimes peel up the flooring, meaning the drips hit the floorboards, like those above and the ones you've seen.

When I need a w/s replaced, I pull it out & clean the body this way to prevent that from happening:



If it's going to be a while, I'll primer/seal the steel so it doesn't rust.  If there are big gaps in the steel, I'll hammer them down, or apply seam sealer to smooth the surface.



THEN I let the installer do the rest.

One other spot I haven't seen mentioned is the rain gutters, and the seam between them and both the windshield and rear window.

If the caulk is dried out and cracked (it usually is) water will run down the A or B pillars and collect on the floor in that corner.

Good luck! I'm sure you'll find it.

This is all fantastic information, thanks so much!

One last thought:  I anticipate asking MANY questions as I keep getting to know this truck, and trying to tackle some of the issues.  Would the group prefer I do a single thread and ask all of my questions there (kind of like a build thread), or have individual threads like this one, for specific issues/questions?  I don't think it matters to me, but it might matter to all of you.

Dave

Doesn't matter to me, but let's see what the others say.  Sometimes new threads get more attention.  But then a thread on your truck keeps it all together.  So I think it is up to you.

Look at what Matthew does.
He has an ongoing project thread, and then starts a separate thread for each 'task' that might need a deep dive for information or documentation.

So, Why Not Both ?????  

(I can't find the little girl meme)

Kind of like I've done with Big Blue's Transformation and the Sky's Offroad Design Super Duty RSK Install thread.  Both are about the same truck, but the Sky thread will have the details on that aspect, although it will also be mentioned in the Transformation thread.

No right or wrong.  Just preference.

I had a similar issue and mine was the seal on the passenger back window at the top.  It ran down the back wall behind the seat and puddle under the dash.  Thought it was the heater core, leaking from the windshield or cowl.

Good luck on finding it though!

Speaking of the galvanized plugs in the footwells for the body bolts - could I ask for some help on sourcing the replacement versions from the newer trucks?  Couldn't find anything in a cursory search.  

I don't speak from any experience in swapping to the later style but I assume it's one of the bottom two options labeled under #13 here:

http://www.lmctruck.com/icatalog/fd/full.aspx?Page=34

Not at home to measure exactly which one right now though.

They do fit perfectly. The ones in Darth came from the 1996 F350, I had the old ones off to remove the front cab bolts to play musical transmission mount bolts. The 4 upper ones will not come out with the cab in place, but the crew cab being 35" longer, there is enough slack with the front ones out to raise the cab the roughly 3/4" needed to remove the bolts and relocate them.

BigDav782 wrote

...the replacement versions from the newer trucks?  Couldn't find anything in a cursory search.

The engineering number is E97B-10111A74-AA, apparently replaced by EN F7LB6111A74AA, which seems to be PN F7LZ63111A74AA.  The ones from the trunk of my '94 CV are the same as those from every '92-96 Bronco I've taken apart, so they're used on several Ford/L/M products of that era, and they should be common in JYs.

This says MSRP is <$6:
https://parts.ford.com/shop/en/us/cover-plate-7858809-1
But these say <$4ea new:
https://www.tascaparts.com/oem-parts/ford-hole-cover-f7lz63111a74aa
https://www.fordpartsgiant.com/parts/ford-cover-plate_f7lz-63111a74-aa.html