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Frame Bolts

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Vic Roma

Frame Bolts

On the trucks that I’ve seen the radius mount bracket was attached to the frame using a rivet. Do you replace the rivet with a grade 8 bolt?

Has anyone ever used cold or hot rivets to attach parts to the frame, to replicate the original design? “Overkill” I hear you say…

As to why rivets > 8 bolt, see this interesting discussion.

1984 Bronco 351 Holley Sniper EFI, 3 Speed Ford Auto.
1986 Bronco 302 EFI, AOD, Eddie Bauer, with 3G alternator.

ArdWrknTrk

Re: Frame Bolts

Administrator

You might look at the Ford TSB's relating to creaking or popping crossmembers. 💡
Their procedure is to ream fit for the next larger size and use grade 5 bolts.
The important part is that there is absolutely no slop in the hole.
Rivets do this nicely on the assembly line, but are going to be a real challenge laying under a truck in your driveway. (or even on a lift in a fully stocked dealership, evidently)

Grade 5 does hold some advantage to grade 8 in that even though they have lower UTS, they are less prone to stress cracking and slightly more corrosion resistant because of their lower carbon content.

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

Rembrant

Re: Frame Bolts

In reply to this post by Vic Roma

I have personally used grade 8 bolts and grade 8 flat washers (they're smaller/neater). I used 7/16" coarse by 1 1/4" long. They seem to work well. Most of the holes are a hair bigger than 7/16", so if you wanted a tight fit you'd have to drill them out to 1/2" and use 1/2" bolts.

By the way, you don't necessarily need to remove the radius arm brackets. I guess it depends on the application. I just swapped radius arms and bushings on my 1984 (2wd) and was able to do it without removing the brackets.

1994 F150 4x2 Flareside. 5.0 w/MAF, 4R70W, stock.
1984 F150 4X2 Flareside. Mild 302 w/ 5spd. Sold.
1980 F150 4X4 Flareside. 300i6 w/ 5spd. Sold in 2021.
1980 F100 4X2 Flareside. 351w/2bbl w/NP435. Sold in 1995

Gary Lewis

Re: Frame Bolts

Administrator

Jim is right that there's a TSB for creaking and popping which discusses using bolts to replace rivets. But there's a whole TSB on that subject as well called 96-15-11 FRAME - RIVET REPLACEMENT WITH BOLTS.

You'll see that it is just as he said - drill and then ream to within .005" of the bolt size. And while they talk about using Grade 5 bolts, they do say "Grade 8 bolts may be substituted for any application."

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

ArdWrknTrk

Re: Frame Bolts

Administrator

I don't mean to suggest grade 8 can't be used.
I was trying to convey best practices as outlined by Ford and the fastener industry in general.

Thank you for that link, Gary.
You continue to amaze me with the variety and sheer volume of technical documentation available through/on the forum.

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

Gary Lewis

Re: Frame Bolts

Administrator

Jim - You didn't suggest Grade 8's can't be used. You said "Grade 5 does hold some advantage to grade 8" and I took that to mean that they can certainly be used.

As for the variety and volume on here, there are a bunch of pages. Over 550 at last count and I've added more since then. And many of those pages have multiple tabs, many of which have documents on them. I would hesitate to guess how many documents we have, but surely in the high hundreds. I'm playing "librarian" connecting people with documentation. But there needs to be a better way.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

ArdWrknTrk

Re: Frame Bolts

Administrator

Time and again I've found out there is information here that simply isn't visible to me with my browser of choice on a mobile device.

Without you as librarian I wouldn't even know what I don't know...

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

Gary Lewis

Re: Frame Bolts

Administrator

Jim - Maybe we have a bust in the way we are presenting TSB's. Can you not get to Documentation/TSB's/Brakes Steering & Suspension/96-15-11 FRAME - RIVET REPLACEMENT WITH BOLTS via the menu?

I'm guessing that, assuming you can't, that it is because the TSB's page is clickable. If so I can fix that. Sorry, but let me know, please.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

ArdWrknTrk

Re: Frame Bolts

Administrator

I don't even have the little hamburger menu to click... in order to see the documentation button any more (on my Android phone)

This means I can't be as helpful as I'd like, but I also understand that nothing is everything for everyone.

You are already doing your best to resolve the issues with Nabble and migrate to a new server where you (and team Gabble) will have more granular control over how the forum behaves.

None of this is criticism, just observable fact.

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

Gary Lewis

Re: Frame Bolts

Administrator

You are apparently going directly into the Nabble server instead of going in via the embedded forum on the website. You should go here and probably keep a tab open to that 'cause the emails we get send us directly to the Nabble server and you'll never see the menu.

http://www.garysgaragemahal.com/

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

ArdWrknTrk

Re: Frame Bolts

Administrator

Okay. I do get the annoying window shade pulldown if I use my bookmarks and I can navigate to the TSB, but for whatever reason I can't zoom or scroll to see the entirely of the second page.

I think this is just down to Chrome not playing well with Word, or whatever those pages are.

But it certainly is a long way around if I get a notification and instead of following the link I have to abandon Gmail, open a browser, go to the forum and navigate to a post in order to be where I was in Gmail....

I'll try to remain conscious of this!

And I always have to do this in order to get a link or image from (say) the EVTM's. Because I need to have tabs open on my phone so I don't lose my reply as I go searching for images or documentation.

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

Gary Lewis

Re: Frame Bolts

Administrator

Jim - I didn't explain well. Let me try again. I click on the link in the email and get taken directly into the Nabble server and do my replies from there. But I keep many tabs open on my browser into the website, as you can see below, so I can get the documentation, links or pics, and then go back to the tab with the N to post. It is a pain, I know, but necessary insurance right now.

As for the TSB's, I think you are saying that you are going to the TSB Index page (Documentation/TSB's/TSB Index) and then cannot scroll to the second page. Right? If so, I'll see if I can figure out what the issue is there.

But, can you not see the next layer of the menu? You can go directly to the TSB via the categories, like Brakes/Steering/Suspension, which will get you to the TSB shown above.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

ArdWrknTrk

Re: Frame Bolts

Administrator

No Gary, your explanation is fine.
But I don't have a 30" monitor or a desktop.
I usually get to the forum through the link.
If I feel my response needs a diagram or link I'll switch over to the browser and grab the specific URL from another tab, since I can't do that from Gmail on my phone.

I can see the drop-down under TSB's and find the bolt replacement.
But bolt replacement seems to be two pages. I can see the entirety of the first (where drilling and punching out rivets is explained) but can only view the upper left of the second.
I can't zoom or scroll on that, so it just doesn't work for me.
Again, this is probably due to antiquated and minimal hardware on my end. Nothing to do with you.

Let me change over to Chrome and try to get a screenshot....

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

ArdWrknTrk

Re: Frame Bolts

Administrator

You can see the slider bar is there, but for whatever reason it doesn't respond (for me)

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

Gary Lewis

Re: Frame Bolts

Administrator

Oh!!! It is the 2nd page of the document, not the spreadsheet.

Does it do the same in landscape? I've had problems with my iPhone that way in the past, although it seems to be working well now.

Let me poke around...

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

ArdWrknTrk

Re: Frame Bolts

Administrator

Honestly, I hadn't tried.
But I definitely will the next time.

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

Gary Lewis

Re: Frame Bolts

Administrator

In reply to this post by Gary Lewis

Try it now, please.

I don't think that will fix it, but the scrolling was set to "no". I set it to "yes", but I don't think that's the same scrolling you are talking about.

On my iPhone there is scrolling in the document, and there's scrolling on the website page. Just now I was not able to get to the bottom of the 2nd page on that document by placing my finger in the document. But it turned out I wasn't scrolled all the way to the bottom of the website page. Once I put my finger outside the document and scrolled I could get to the bottom.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Vic Roma

Re: Frame Bolts

In reply to this post by ArdWrknTrk

Thank you, all. I too did not find Article 96-15-11 when I searched the forum for "frame bolts."
This is very helpful information. I was hoping I did not have to hone my riveting skills to fix the truck.

1984 Bronco 351 Holley Sniper EFI, 3 Speed Ford Auto.
1986 Bronco 302 EFI, AOD, Eddie Bauer, with 3G alternator.

Vic Roma

Re: Frame Bolts

If torqued correctly, is there a need to insure against a nut working loose, say by using Loctite Blue (243), Loctite Red (262), or even use two nuts?

1984 Bronco 351 Holley Sniper EFI, 3 Speed Ford Auto.
1986 Bronco 302 EFI, AOD, Eddie Bauer, with 3G alternator.

Gary Lewis

Re: Frame Bolts

Administrator

I would use either Loctite blue or orange, but not red. And my pref would be orange.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile