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Fog Light Bezel, Switch, etc

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reamer

Re: Fog Light Bezel, Switch, etc

Got the Bezel today
Here are the detailed measurements:
Fog_Light_Bezel_Measurements.docx

1986 F-150 Flareside 4x4, 351, 4-v, ZF5 speed. AC, Cruise, Tilt, Slider, Digital clock, Radio, Lariat seat, Pwr doors/locks

Gary Lewis

Re: Fog Light Bezel, Switch, etc

Administrator

Thanks for the measurements, Ron. I'll check them out.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

FuzzFace2

Re: Fog Light Bezel, Switch, etc

In reply to this post by Gary Lewis

Gary Lewis wrote

Pete - It will be interesting to see what you come up with. What software are you using?

Jim - it is Kasse FLF. And, I never said I do things the easy way. However, what I've been told is that scanning doesn't give a good of results as from a drawing.

Dave - No. There are three parts involved. The fog lamp bezel fastens to the instrument bezel with two studs that pass through holes in the instrument bezel. And, the plan is to use speed nuts on the plastic studs to hold it on, as Pete suggested. But the switch fastens to the dash by passing through a D-shaped hole and being held by a nut on the barrel of the switch. Then the arm of the switch passes through a slot in the instrument bezel and a slot in the fog lamp bezel.

(I think I made that complicated. )

So this "D" shape hole where is this, on the dash I take it or ?
I just can not picture it

Now I can see this "D" shape hole as a bracket type thing the switch screws to then it fits up to the back side of the dash. The bezel fits on from the front side, this switch bracket then fits over the 2 studs and all of it gets held to the dash with the 2 speed nuts.
Dave ----

Dave G.
81 F100 flare side 300 six / AA OD / NP435 / 2.75 gear
http://cars.grantskingdom1.com/index.php/1980-Ford-F100?page=1
81 F100 style side 300 six/SROD parts truck -RIP
http://cars.grantskingdom1.com/index.php/1981-Ford-F100

Gary Lewis

Re: Fog Light Bezel, Switch, etc

Administrator

I'll take another stab at 'splaining, but will be out in the shop after a bit and will take some pics to help your understanding and my 'splaining - and it is the latter that is probably the problem here.

The D-shaped hole is just that - a hole in the dash itself. The switch is inserted from the rear and a nut captures it on the front of the dash. Very similar to the wiper switch, which is just to the left.

The fog lamp bezel's studs are inserted through two holes in the instrument bezel and it is secured to the instrument bezel with speed nuts on the back side. However, the factory melted the studs over to secure the bezel - see the previous pic.

Once the bezels are attached to each other and the switch is attached to the dash itself the bezels are installed on the dash exactly as any instrument bezel would. The switch lever protrudes through the instrument bezel and the fog lamp bezel and a knob is affixed to it.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

FuzzFace2

Re: Fog Light Bezel, Switch, etc

OK I got it now
So 3 holes in the dash:
1 D shape for the switch
2 for the light bezel that will use speed nuts to hold it to the dash.

Now looking at the Ford bezel is the slot wide enough for the switch holding nut so it is not held out away from the main dash front?
I say this because it looks like the bezel has a rubber sweeper to hide the switch nut and did not know if the bezel would be held out some by the nut.

Or the nut fits from the front side like the wiper/light switch does?
It must now that I think of it because from the factory the bezel does not come off the dash as the studs are melted over. Then why the sweep?

I know I am over thinking this lol

Thanks
Dave ----

Gary Lewis

Re: Fog Light Bezel, Switch, etc

Administrator

The holes for the fog lamp bezel are in the instrument bezel, not the dash.

This is a sandwich, with the dash on the front side, the instrument bezel in the middle, and the fog lamp bezel on the back. The fog lamp bezel attaches to the instrument bezel, and the instrument bezel to the dash.

Pics after I finish my second cup and finish trying to reconcile the more than 50 measurements I've gotten to this point. Some measurements were taken to the outside of the bezel and similar ones taken to the inside of the bead. Some use different words to mean the same thing, and some similar words to mean different things.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Gary Lewis

Re: Fog Light Bezel, Switch, etc

Administrator

Dave - Here's a snap of the holes in the dash. Left to right they are headlight, wiper, and fog lamp. Note the D-shape for both the wiper and fog lamp switches, with the flat orienting the switch properly as well as not allowing it to turn. I think the fog lamp switch mounts from behind with a nut on the front to hold, but then I've never seen one.

And here's an instrument bezel w/o the fog lamp bezel. You can see the holes where the studs go through for mounting the fog lamp bezel. Note that the top stud is dead-center in the top, but the bottom one is offset. You'll see more about that in the next post.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

PetesPonies

Re: Fog Light Bezel, Switch, etc

I stopped playing when the measurements didn't add up. I'm just using Sketchup.

Pete's Ponies
Mustang RUSToration & Performance

1982 F100 Flareside
1983 Bronco

Gary Lewis

Re: Fog Light Bezel, Switch, etc

Administrator

In reply to this post by Gary Lewis

Ok, I think I have it done. I hope. See what you think, and then read the how-I-got-there part down below. But, I will say that this version fits the measurements I've gotten pretty well. So, what do you think?

Speaking of measurements, I spent a long time today reconciling the measurements I've gotten. I used the spreadsheet shown below. Ron's measurements were in decimal but Jonathan's were in fractions, so I converted to decimal. And then I had to translate Ron's words and Jonathan's words into my way of thinking - like border and bead. In addition, Ron took several measurements from the outside of the bezel and Jonathan took most of his from the inside of the bead, so I added the width of the bead to many of his measurements. Plus, Ron appears to have measured to the outside of the studs and I needed the centers, so I did a bit more math.

So, what does it look like in 3D? How's this?

Or this? (The green thing is a "light" I added in TurboCAD so we could actually see things.)

Here's the stud placement, and I made them yellow just for visibility.

And here are the locations of the studs, although you are looking at the backside with the top down.

Last, here are the locations of everything on the front.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Ford F834

Re: Fog Light Bezel, Switch, etc

Administrator

Awesome work Gary!

I stuck with fractions just because that is what my drill bit set was for measuring radii, but as I made more and more measurements I was thinking I should have done metric or decimal inch. Glad you got it all sorted out, and sorry for the confusion.

The computer drawings are very convincing! Only thing I wonder about is the line width on the lettering. The bolding only widened the vertical lines which really changed the look of the font a ~lot. The actual bezel font looks like the un bolded type but with thicker lines.

I'm really excited to see how this prints out in plastic!

SHORT BED 4-DOOR DIESEL: 1986 F350 4x4 under construction-- 7.3 IDIT ZF5+GVOD

STRAIGHT SIX 4X4: 1981 F150 2wd to 4x4-- 300 I6 close ratio diesel T19, hydroboost brakes, Saginaw steering

BIG F: 1995 F-Superduty under construction— converting to 6.9L IDI diesel ZF5+DNE2

Gary Lewis

Re: Fog Light Bezel, Switch, etc

Administrator

Thanks. I'm excited to see it as well. I've saved this one in several states of the build so that it will be fairly easy to make changes. For instance, I'm not sure that I picked the right radius for the fillet on the top of the bead. The flat looks a bit wide to me, so we may need to tweak that.

And the stud length is one I picked. I put my instrument bezel on a dash and measured from the front of the bezel to the instrument panel: .550". So I picked .500 and made the studs that. But, that's probably too long and we may want to trim them.

Also, I have the ability to put threads on things, so was wondering about threading the studs 1/4-20. Might make securing the thing easier as we won't have to find 1/4" speed nuts.

By the way, if you get a chance to post a pic or two of the switch before you get away I'd probably spend some time looking for a replacement.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Ford F834

Re: Fog Light Bezel, Switch, etc

Administrator

Gary if you could make the studs 1/4 20 threads that would be awesome. I think that would be way better than speed nuts.

I will post some pics of the switch tomorrow, and get a measurement on the arm length.

Gary Lewis

Re: Fog Light Bezel, Switch, etc

Administrator

I agree that threaded studs would be much better. Speed nuts cut their own threads, and we don't know how robust the plastic that they use will be, so it would be possible for the speed nut to gall and then the stud break off. And since it shouldn't cost any more to make the stud with threads then why not. But, I might go 1/4-28 since that will give more threads that the nut captures and, therefore, make it less likely that anything will break.

And, we will want to think about how long the studs are. Ron - can you measure yours? I'm pretty sure the .500" length that I have them will be fine, but we should check. But the original studs were designed to be melted, so may be shorter than what we need. After all, we will need both a nut and a washer.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

PetesPonies

Re: Fog Light Bezel, Switch, etc

You can use the press on retainers rather than speed nuts if you fear the strength factor.

Pete's Ponies
Mustang RUSToration & Performance

1982 F100 Flareside
1983 Bronco

reamer

Re: Fog Light Bezel, Switch, etc

H Gary
Your stud placement is off.
Just as you have (upside down)

Diameter of studs is 0.248 (call it .250 if you want)
But
the stud by up-side down "Off" (from center of stud) left edge to center of stud = 0.675"
Top edge (actually bottom edge) to CL of same stud = 0.297"

The other Stud, The top stud by the "ON" From left edge to CL of stud = 0.8185". Bottom edge to CL of stud =.4215"

Spread sheet #15.., Answer is Yes..

1986 F-150 Flareside 4x4, 351, 4-v, ZF5 speed. AC, Cruise, Tilt, Slider, Digital clock, Radio, Lariat seat, Pwr doors/locks

reamer

Re: Fog Light Bezel, Switch, etc

Would a Bronco "Rear Window" switch work? they are available, but I don't know if it has a spring loaded lever. (not stay in the "ON" or "OFF" positions by its self.....

1986 F-150 Flareside 4x4, 351, 4-v, ZF5 speed. AC, Cruise, Tilt, Slider, Digital clock, Radio, Lariat seat, Pwr doors/locks

Gary Lewis

Re: Fog Light Bezel, Switch, etc

Administrator

In reply to this post by reamer

Pete - I just checked and a 1/4-28 nut is .492" in diameter and it just barely hangs over the slot ever so slightly when on the bottom stud, and maybe not at all if the nut is stopped at just the right spot. However, a press-on may be wider and hang out in the breeze. Assuming we have the rubber piece between the bezels that might not be a problem, but it would probably require the rubber piece.

Ron - I don't know about the rear window switch. Let's wait to see what Jonathan's pics of the real thing look like since the tank selector switch is still available, is a two position, and has the narrow arm to take the knob. I have one and will see if I can figure out how to mount it once we have the bezel sorted.

As for the bezel, I hope I understood your measurements correctly:

And, here's a shot with 1/4-28 all-thread put in place of the studs:

And another view:

Lastly, I give you the finished (I hope) piece:

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

reamer

Re: Fog Light Bezel, Switch, etc

Hi Gary
Ill check tomorrow. On the road tonight.....
Thanks!

1986 F-150 Flareside 4x4, 351, 4-v, ZF5 speed. AC, Cruise, Tilt, Slider, Digital clock, Radio, Lariat seat, Pwr doors/locks

Ford F834

Re: Fog Light Bezel, Switch, etc

Administrator

In reply to this post by Gary Lewis

Hi Gary,

The bronco rear glass switches are spring loaded momentary type if I remember right, and so are the bronco rear window defrost switches...

Here are some pics of my switch. Some look cosmetically different than mine, but there really isn't much to it. The length of the lever from base to tip of the flat blade is 1.15" and the stick out of the threaded piece is 0.25". If it would be helpful I can loan you the switch, as it is small and easy to mail.

Gary Lewis

Re: Fog Light Bezel, Switch, etc

Administrator

Jonathan - I don't think I need to get my hands on it as your dimensions are probably adequate. It looks like the pivot is a ball right at the end of the barrel. Given that and your measurements I have a good idea what is needed.

Thanks, I'll do some more Googling.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

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