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Duraspark II-ish Starting Issue?

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Jason2215

Re: Duraspark II-ish Starting Issue?

I do not know the history. And I could definitely pick up a spare just to see what happens if that would be a good next step. I'll see if I can find one locally real quick.

What would happen if say, I disconnected the coil plug so the engine won't start, then connect the starter see if there is any voltage there with the key off?

I'd be interested to know if yours reads similar.

1984 Bronco XLT
351W HO/C6

Jason, Ocean Springs, MS

kramttocs

Re: Duraspark II-ish Starting Issue?

Administrator

I know my 4 shows 0v just unsure of 2's voltage drop.
With it being an Auto in Park, it would just try to crank even with the coil plugged in (key off) but it's just like jumping the starter on a tractor with a screwdriver - do it all the time but wouldn't feel good telling anyone else to

Even if it doesn't cause the starter to engage, it's still a drain that you won't want.

Scott
'Camano' 1986 F250 Supercab XLT Lariat 460/C6
'Chanute' 1980 F350 C&C 400/NP 435 - Gin Pole

But there ain't nothin' wrong with the radio

Jason2215

Re: Duraspark II-ish Starting Issue?

Ok new fmr installed. Same crazy readings on 4 using DCV setting on meter with no key turn. Still 9.6 on terminal 2 with the key in start. It slowly drops while the key is held in start. Don’t know if that’s normal.

I don’t know if it matters, but when I switch the meter to DC mA, it reads .17 on terminal 1 and the battery, and 0 on the other terminals.

1984 Bronco XLT
351W HO/C6

Jason, Ocean Springs, MS

kramttocs

Re: Duraspark II-ish Starting Issue?

Administrator

My R/BL wire is 11.79 when in Start with a resting battery voltage of 12.24

I am just not sure on the 4 having voltage. Jim, Bill, Gary? Have you guys seen that before?

Scott
'Camano' 1986 F250 Supercab XLT Lariat 460/C6
'Chanute' 1980 F350 C&C 400/NP 435 - Gin Pole

But there ain't nothin' wrong with the radio

Gary Lewis

Re: Duraspark II-ish Starting Issue?

Administrator

If I'm understanding correctly, Terminal 4 has voltage when the key is off? That should not be the case. That terminal should only have voltage on it when the ignition switch is in Start. So assuming there is no other wire connected to Terminal 4 itself, something is either connected to the starter or the starter itself is bad, bleeding power over from the power cable from Terminal 1.

As for the voltage on Terminal 2, it will always be a bit less than battery voltage due to the small wire size going to the ignition switch and back. There are fuse links and lots of connections, each of which has resistance and, therefore, drops the voltage.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

kramttocs

Re: Duraspark II-ish Starting Issue?

Administrator

Hey Gary. Yeah, the voltage drop he is seeing seems pretty proportional based on his resting voltage for the R/LB wire. So #2 checks out. #1 is a given so that just leave #4.

Since the relay was an unknown his test right now is with 1 having battery power and 2 having the R/LB wire. Nothing else is hooked up to the fender mounted relay.
I can't explain #4 having voltage with the original relay, let alone the new one he picked up. Until we get that addressed, I am not confident suggesting the next step of connecting a wire from #4 to the solenoid on the starter.

Jason - think you could upload a video of the multimeter when checking voltage on #4 against the negative battery terminal with the key off?

Scott
'Camano' 1986 F250 Supercab XLT Lariat 460/C6
'Chanute' 1980 F350 C&C 400/NP 435 - Gin Pole

But there ain't nothin' wrong with the radio

Gary Lewis

Re: Duraspark II-ish Starting Issue?

Administrator

I guess I should have asked if there is anything at all hooked to 4? If not, that says the relay is bad. Both of them????????????

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Jason2215

Re: Duraspark II-ish Starting Issue?

Could it be that I have the multimeter set incorrectly? I will try to upload a video tomorrow if the meter on #4. It’s extremely sporadic. Nothing else hooked to it. Makes me think it’s the meter and not the relay (I even got the Duralast w the good reviews!

)

To confirm, you want me to video the red multimeter cable on 4, and black on the neg battery terminal?

Thx again guys. I clearly couldn’t have worked through this on my own.

1984 Bronco XLT
351W HO/C6

Jason, Ocean Springs, MS

kramttocs

Re: Duraspark II-ish Starting Issue?

Administrator

Jason2215 wrote

To confirm, you want me to video the red multimeter cable on 4, and black on the neg battery terminal?

Bingo. Set the multimeter to 20 on DC if that is an option.

Looking forward to finding out what's going on with this.

If you want to get a jump on the next step - crawl under by the starter with your multimeter and touch the red probe to the terminal with 3 wires and the black to the thick flange of the starter the bolts goes through to mount it. Should see the full battery voltage. Then go ahead and run a 8/10awg wire from the stud the red wire used to be on and bring it up to the fmr. Don't hook it to anything yet though. Just get it there and ready.

Scott
'Camano' 1986 F250 Supercab XLT Lariat 460/C6
'Chanute' 1980 F350 C&C 400/NP 435 - Gin Pole

But there ain't nothin' wrong with the radio

Gary Lewis

Re: Duraspark II-ish Starting Issue?

Administrator

Yes, I think it is the meter. In the position you have it, which may be the only choice, it says "10 MegOhm Input". That is a very sensitive input resistance, and it is auto-ranging. So it will probably turn down the input range until it gets a reading, and that's what you are seeing.

The input range to the left in the green appears to be for batteries, but I can't read it. If so, you might get by for testing w/o the engine running on the 12v setting over there, and it may not be nearly as sensitive.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Jason2215

Re: Duraspark II-ish Starting Issue?

In reply to this post by kramttocs

Here’s the videos of what I see on the meter when testing post 4. The first is using the DCV option and second is the 12v battery load test option. Same result. You can see it go haywire when I touch the post.

https://youtu.be/y2iyxXdaKSk

https://youtu.be/DJOmUWDd3sU

I DO see full battery voltage at the starter post with the three wires, but remember I’m linked directly from the battery right now, not through post 1 on the fmr Thanks!

1984 Bronco XLT
351W HO/C6

Jason, Ocean Springs, MS

Gary Lewis

Re: Duraspark II-ish Starting Issue?

Administrator

Basically what I think that is saying is that terminal 4 has neither power nor ground on it and is floating. So the meter is searching for ANY voltage on it and keeps turning down the scale until it finds something.

Do you have a test light? Or a 12v bulb you can wire from terminal 4 to ground? If it doesn't come on, and I'm sure it won't, then check terminal 4 with your meter. It should show 0 volts.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Jason2215

Re: Duraspark II-ish Starting Issue?

Just picked up a separate meter w the 20 option to make things easier. We’re at 0 bolts on terminal 4. Full battery voltage at starter. Awaiting further instructions.

1984 Bronco XLT
351W HO/C6

Jason, Ocean Springs, MS

old55pete

Re: Duraspark II-ish Starting Issue?

In reply to this post by Gary Lewis

DC mA is milli amps, or 1 millionth of an amp if I remember correctly. Just a thought. Keep going Scott

Steve
86 Bronco, XLT, 5.0 EFI, EEC IV, AOD, IFS, limited slip front and rear, 3.08 gears, Tilt steering, factory AC

Jason2215

Re: Duraspark II-ish Starting Issue?

Thx!

1984 Bronco XLT
351W HO/C6

Jason, Ocean Springs, MS

Gary Lewis

Re: Duraspark II-ish Starting Issue?

Administrator

In reply to this post by kramttocs

kramttocs wrote

If you want to get a jump on the next step - crawl under by the starter with your multimeter and touch the red probe to the terminal with 3 wires and the black to the thick flange of the starter the bolts goes through to mount it. Should see the full battery voltage. Then go ahead and run a 8/10awg wire from the stud the red wire used to be on and bring it up to the fmr. Don't hook it to anything yet though. Just get it there and ready.

Your new meter has confirmed my suspicions - the other meter is SENSITIVE! So I think you are ready for Scott's "next step".

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

kramttocs

Re: Duraspark II-ish Starting Issue?

Administrator

In reply to this post by Jason2215

Great! I've never messed with an auto-ranging setting so that's good to know. Thanks Gary and Steve.

Jason2215 wrote

I DO see full battery voltage at the starter post with the three wires, but remember I’m linked directly from the battery right now, not through post 1 on the fmr Thanks!

Perfect. You are correct - that three wire post will have constant voltage on it at all times and this was just to ensure the starter was grounded through the block.

The next step is to run a 8/10awg wire from the stud on the starter solenoid that the red wire used to be on and bring it up to #4 on the fmr.

At this point you are ready to start it.

The two fuse links on the three wire post on the starter solenoid could be moved up to #1 on the fmr if you want it closer to original and I would for visibility and easier future troubleshooting but it doesn't have to be done right now. When doing so increase the awg of the short wire between the POS battery terminal and #1.

Scott
'Camano' 1986 F250 Supercab XLT Lariat 460/C6
'Chanute' 1980 F350 C&C 400/NP 435 - Gin Pole

But there ain't nothin' wrong with the radio

Jason2215

Re: Duraspark II-ish Starting Issue?

This post was updated on .

Thanks Scott. Should I alter the routing of the pos batt cable to terminal 1, then to starter or leave the pos battery cable directly from batt to starter?

1984 Bronco XLT
351W HO/C6

Jason, Ocean Springs, MS

Jason2215

Re: Duraspark II-ish Starting Issue?

In reply to this post by kramttocs

ITS ALLIIIIIIIIVVVEEEEE!!!!!

You are a scholar and a gentleman!

1984 Bronco XLT
351W HO/C6

Jason, Ocean Springs, MS

Gary Lewis

Re: Duraspark II-ish Starting Issue?

Administrator

Congrat's!!!!!! That is SUCH a GOOD feeling!!!

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

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