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Dual Exhaust Idea

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Machspeed

Re: Dual Exhaust Idea

Administrator

I have shorty headers going to Flowmasters and exiting out in the factory manner behind the passenger rear wheel. Frankly, I don't like the sound of them. Gary described them exactly as I would, "flatulent".

John

"Blackie" - 1986 F150 4x4 - Mildly warmed over 351W HO - Original owner

Rusty_S85

Re: Dual Exhaust Idea

Machspeed wrote

I have shorty headers going to Flowmasters and exiting out in the factory manner behind the passenger rear wheel. Frankly, I don't like the sound of them. Gary described them exactly as I would, "flatulent".

Yep flowmasters sound like glasspacks they are loud obnoxious and they love to pop on decell.

Big reason why I went with Thrust Glasspack on my truck as it was more of a mellow sound but now with my new engine build and EFI I have a single stainless steel round Magnaflow XL 3 chamber muffler. Im looking forward to how it sounds and hopeful it sounds more like a late model setup where its nice and mellow at idle but will become very aggressive on the throttle.

Id like to be able to come into and out of a neighborhood in the middle of the night not causing a bunch of noise.

"Old Blue" - '56 Fairlane Town Sedan - 292-4V, Ford-O-Matic transmission, 3.22:1
'63 Belair 2dr sdn - 283-4V, Powerglide transmission, 4.56:1
'78 Cougar XR7 - 351-2V, FMX transmission, 2.75:1 9inch
"Bruno" - '82 F150 Flareside - 302-2V, C6 transmission, 2.75:1 9inch, 31x10.50-15 BFG KO2

Bulletproof250

Re: Dual Exhaust Idea

In reply to this post by ArdWrknTrk

Thanks ArkWrkin

I know it's been a while, I thought that I had read that if I were to remove these tubes that it might effect the ignition timing. Is this true? if so could someone recommend a updated ignition timing setting?

Thanks,
Alex

1984 F-250 Std Cab (a.k.a. Harrison), Dana 60 Rear, Dana 44HD Front, Ratio 3.54:1, 351W, 2bbl Motorcraft 2150, 4WD NP208 Transfer Case, 4-Speed Warner T-18..
Med Desert Tan Metallic ("Tan? ..not brown?" <= from CT DMV worker upon registering)

-Teach your Kids to Fish, Hunt, or get them into Cars, and they'll never have the time or money for drugs.

ArdWrknTrk

Re: Dual Exhaust Idea

Administrator

The thermactor pipes inject air directly into the exhaust ports to help burn any carbon monoxide leaving the heads.
They also provide some air to quickly heat the catalytic converter. (if you have one)

They should have no effect on combustion.

You may be thinking about the EGR.
Without adding inert exhaust gas to the intake charge you often need to retard your vacuum advance or you'll get detonation under cruise or tip in.

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

Bulletproof250

Re: Dual Exhaust Idea

ArdWrknTrk,

Thanks for the quick reply. I'm pulling the EGR stuff too. What do I have to do about the timing there? ...."retard the Vacuum advance".... is there a preferred number of °?

ArdWrknTrk

Re: Dual Exhaust Idea

Administrator

This post was updated on .

I don't think there is any hard and fast rule.
Back then you could often get around it by going a little richer on the transition jetting.

Ideally you would set up the whole distributor curve when making major changes like a free flow exhaust, cam, new carb & intake or deleting EGR.
But that's complicated by having to remove and disassemble a DSII distributor, repeatedly...

If I were you I would make sure my vacuum advance is adjustable with a ** 3/32" allen wrench and then go drive the truck while trying to get it to ping under slight acceleration.

You can see if Gary has the Crane Cams distributor adjustment instructions somewhere with the DSII swap tutorial.
They might give you an idea of how much advance each turn will take out (or add)

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

Gary Lewis

Re: Dual Exhaust Idea

Administrator

Yes, the Crane instructions are on the page at Documentation/Electrical/Ignition and then the Instructions tab and then the Crane tab.

And the vacuum advance is the place to adjust because exhaust gas was admitted when the vacuum was high and they had to dial in quite a bit of advance because the flame front is slow with the inert gas added. Take it out and you have dial back the vacuum advance.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

ArdWrknTrk

Re: Dual Exhaust Idea

Administrator

Thank you, Gary!

Evidently there is no exact value given for turns = X degrees.

Yes, high gear at high enough rpm that all the centrifugal advance is in.
Typically a long grade on the highway.
Tip into the throttle slowly while listening for engine rattle.
Back off the adjuster until it doesn't do it any more.

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

Bulletproof250

Re: Dual Exhaust Idea

Thanks Gary!
Thanks Jim!

I'll start the adjustment once I get the waterpump and radiator back in....

....any tips on fixing broken bolts? weld on washer and nut?
Left handed Drill bits (prob not with this amount of age?)
EZ-Out?
Etc, Etc

Gary Lewis

Re: Dual Exhaust Idea

Administrator

Ouch! Those are going to be a serious problem.

There are two approaches. My approach on my vehicle would be to clean the area where the bolt meets the timing cover and then try to get the timing cover off. But that requires removing the fuel pump, and it means you need the timing cover gasket and pan repair gasket.

It is more work and if the bolts are really corroded to the timing cover you may not be able to get it off without a LOT of struggle. But if you do you can then properly get the bolts out of the block. On the other hand you may not get it off w/o destroying the timing cover as sometimes the bolts are REALLY married to the cover, and in that case you have created a lot of work.

The other approach is to get the ones out you can and drill/tap the ones you can't. On the ones that protrude I'd weld a nut on them. But the others you'll have to drill and then tap, and do your best to get the drill bit centered in the bolt.

Whichever way you go, slather the new bolts with some preventative! Some use anti-seize, but Jim has me using Loctite 56747 PST High Temperature Thread Sealant. It isn't cheap, but it will sure prevent things like this in the future.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

mat in tn

Re: Dual Exhaust Idea

oh you poor guy. order a new timing cover ! order a new timing chain! you are there! the only probable drill out is the one in the intake. the more time and money you spend trying not to will just cost you more and in more ways. but its all an education either way. if you are successful without that you need to move to vegas.

Gary Lewis

Re: Dual Exhaust Idea

Administrator

Amen, brother! That is the worst example I've ever seen.

And you are right about the timing chain - replace it while you are in there.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

kramttocs

Re: Dual Exhaust Idea

Administrator

Ugh, that's a rough photo right there! I guess the silver lining is that they aren't flush.

Scott
'Camano' 1986 F250 Supercab XLT Lariat 460/C6
'Chanute' 1980 F350 C&C 400/NP 435 - Gin Pole

But there ain't nothin' wrong with the radio

ArdWrknTrk

Re: Dual Exhaust Idea

Administrator

In reply to this post by Gary Lewis

Eh... I've seen worse.

If you're going to pull the timing case do a really good job cleaning the front of the block first.
You don't want to get debris and grit into the front of your oil pan.
Then pack a rag in the gap while you scrape/grind the old gasket off the block

You'll need a harmonic puller and a new front main seal. Check that the old seal has not worn a lip in the spacer/damper/whatever.
If it has, you need a speedi-sleeve.

Still you have to get those bolts out.

I've never had success using an EZ-out on corroded fasteners.
If you have a welder run it as hot as you can without melting the nut you're trying to attach.

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

mat in tn

Re: Dual Exhaust Idea

welding the nut can work well. im concerned about the fluffy corrosion along the aluminum cover though. it may not give a good heat sink to break the corrosive bond as that's most likely where it is. the last one I had to do was a quick decision to sacrifice the cover and it was by far the easiest way that time. i was lucky enough to have a couple used ones on hand so that helped make my decision too but i learned a lot that day.how fast one can fix it once you just stop dreading it and attack.

ArdWrknTrk

Re: Dual Exhaust Idea

Administrator

Depends if the bolts go through into coolant.
If they do and you haven't used proper sealant at the block you're in trouble.

I don't find the white fluffies hold too tight if you get the bolt shank hot enough.
If the timing case casting is really badly pitted and you don't feel like filling around the ports just order a new one and stainless bolts right now.

Sometimes I have more time than money....
You always have to ask "How much am I worth?"

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

Machspeed

Re: Dual Exhaust Idea

Administrator

In reply to this post by Bulletproof250

I had three snap on me in removing my timing cover to replace the chain. For obvious reasons, the important ones are the ones in the block. If you screw up the cover you can easily source another. I pulled the timing cover and removed the single bolt in it via tap drill methods. I was off a little and ended up using a heli-coil. With the cover off, I sprayed the two in the block with penetrating oil and let it sit over night. Doubt that did much good, really. Next day used a torch on them and tapped the bolts lightly with a small hammer, repeated the process many times. Eventually, I was able to work them loose with a pair of good Vice Grips. Heat is your best friend. Good luck!

John

"Blackie" - 1986 F150 4x4 - Mildly warmed over 351W HO - Original owner

mat in tn

Re: Dual Exhaust Idea

that's about the best way but it does need the cover out of the way. many over the years have not understood or pay 'ed enough respect to the corrosive characteristics of dissimilar metals. add to that the fact of these long bolts being only 5/16" and you may only have an 1/8" somewhere along the way as a result of corrosion. try to remove the cover by wedgeing as near to the bolt as possible. I use thin wood chisels for this, and I know some of you need to consult a cardiologist right now. if it cannot be wedged forward it will need to be cut. sometimes seemingly brutal methods are the best. if you ever saw a knee replacement surgery you would think twice before getting one.

Gary Lewis

Re: Dual Exhaust Idea

Administrator

Yes dissimilar metals, especially when in the presence of an electrolyte, are a serious problem. And one that most owners don't think about. Not only does it cause serious problems like we are seeing here with steel, aluminum, and cast iron in contact with each other in the presence of the coolant, there's also the aluminum intake manifold many of these engines have and it is in contact with the iron heads. I've seen the sealing surfaces literally eaten away on aluminum intakes.

But it doesn't have to be! There are ways to prevent it, as explained in this article on HOW TO PREVENT GALVANIC EFFECT IN YOUR VEHICLE’S COOLING SYSTEM. And the main way to do that is to keep the coolant up to snuff - and do NOT run straight water. Here's what they say in part:

Coolant loses its protective properties over time. Even in a new engine, it gradually picks up impurities, making it steadily more conductive and creating an environment where the galvanic effect can become a problem. That’s why it’s prudent to check its condition, especially if it’s been in the system for a while.

A periodic check of the pH level will help indicate when it is time to flush the system reducing the likelihood of problems related to galvanic effect. Test strips that measure the pH value of the coolant/water mixture for acidity are available at your local parts store. With a cool engine, open the radiator cap, dip the test strip into the coolant and read the results against the chart that comes with the strips.

However, when things are as far gone as they are in this case it is going to be either expensive or time-consuming, or both, to fix. And I'm with you, Matt, I think I'd do my best to get the timing cover off w/o ruining it, but accept the fact that it is likely a new one will be needed.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

ArdWrknTrk

Re: Dual Exhaust Idea

Administrator

Personally the most concerning thing here is that lower thermostat housing bolt. 😶
We all know that those rarely get the proper sealant.

You can see the chest bolts were all solid enough to take a hammering and I'm sure Alex has already tried grabbing what's left with locking pliers.

Sure, the bolts will have pitting, but all that corrosion is from the magnesium, zinc and aluminum in the timing case alloy.
I use passivated stainless bolts because they don't pit, leaving a smooth shank the corrosion can't grab hold of.

If they are rusted tight into the block there is no easy answer.

Wasn't it Scott who was going to hang an anode in his radiator?

What happened with that???

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

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