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Carburetor feedback needed

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ArdWrknTrk

Re: Carburetor feedback needed

Administrator

No, you don't need to remove the pan. You need to remove the two bolts through the pan on either side of the crank nose.
Edit!!! I hadn't realized you have a 400.
Since a 335 timing case is in the block and the cover is just a plate, I may well be wrong.
Gary would know better than I do....

If you buy a timing chain gasket set it will come with two little 'ears' of pan gasket to replace that part.
You glue them in with oil resistant silicone like GM's "The Right Stuff' or 'Ultra Gray' from Permatex

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

Gary Lewis

Re: Carburetor feedback needed

Administrator

In reply to this post by dirtymac

You can easily check the timing chain w/o removing the cover. Two ways:

Pull the fuel pump and reach in with a hook and see how much slop there is. 1/2" is max.

Bring #1 up on TDC by turning the engine clockwise with the 15/16" bolt on the crank balancer. And then remove the distributor cap. With the TDC mark lined up with the pointer gently turn the engine backwards (CCW) and stop when the distributor starts to turn. The timing marks show the amount of slop.

Having said that, if the engine hasn't been rebuilt then the chain has to be worn. Still, checking before you plow ahead is good.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

dirtymac

Re: Carburetor feedback needed

Thank you for that! I think I can make one of those options work!

Will
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1982 F250 4x4 400/C6 Dana60

AmericanSavage

Re: Carburetor feedback needed

In reply to this post by dirtymac

Hi DirtyMac,

That goo you asked about is part of the timing chain cover. You do NOT need to remove the oil pan. See my thread where I did all this and had planned on replacing/upgrading the chain. I ended up buying a new cover from Summit because there is a bolt that easily strips out one of the holes for the water pump With a little finagling, got it on with light use of Ultra black (or gray, pending on if you are covering for oil or coolant)…no leaks—Milodon gaskets. Jim was correct about all that…but you do not have to remove the two bolts on the pan….keep it set if it is not leaking.

All in all I love the “Cleveland.”

On the sticky throttle, I would replace the entire cable from the pedal—those things corrode, and no amount of lube will loosen it up…then, maybe get a Holley (running for cover now as Gary might have his ire up!)

1980 Ford XLT F350
400 Engine (rebuilt to 406)
Holley 2300 500 CFM manual Choke Carb
Under Restore (1st time)

Gary Lewis

Re: Carburetor feedback needed

Administrator

AmericanSavage wrote

…then, maybe get a Holley (running for cover now as Gary might have his ire up!)

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

dirtymac

Re: Carburetor feedback needed

In reply to this post by Gary Lewis

I did a couple of smoke tests today using the brake booster hose. I left everything hooked up as it was when I got the truck. The top of the carb did leak a little smoke but after a few tries I got it to stop. Otherwise, I could find no smoke coming from anywhere else (including into the cab).

Last week I pulled the carb to work on the sticky throttle. I checked the flaps and there is no sign of damage to them or that they are getting stuck on anything. They did have some small spots of surface crud, which I cleaned off. I cleaned them and anything connected to the throttle linkage with some carb cleaned and worked them back and forth pretty good. That seemed to help a bit with the sticky throttle. It still sticks sometimes but it sticks just barely open and its not as noticable.

I still have some slight hesitation when accelerating from a stop. The carb bowl does seem to hold fuel for a few days between starts. I can't find any external fuel leaks on the carb.

I don't know the quality of the rebuild on this carb. I don't know how many miles it has on it or how it has been treated. I also don't have enough info to get a carb kit without tearing it down. I think that may be my next step. I also think I want to do this before I deal with the harmonic balancer.

I am probably going to get a rebuild kit from Mike's Carburetor Parts in case anyone has experience or comments on them.

Will
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1982 F250 4x4 400/C6 Dana60

dirtymac

Re: Carburetor feedback needed

In reply to this post by AmericanSavage

I plan to have a look at the timing chain using Gary's suggestions while I have the harmonic balancer off. Based on what you and others have said, I think I can probably replace the timing chain myself -- if it comes to that. The weird gasket ears concern me but I know they get used without trouble so I am probably just a bit paranoid.

The throttle cable and pedal seem to work ok. When I first got the trouble the throttle was very sticky and after some cable lube most of that was gone. I recently had the carb off to work on this. After some cleaning and work on it, it is much better. I don't think the cable is causing any issues but I appreciate the advice. I had wondered how easy it would be to replace the cable if it came to that.

Will
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1982 F250 4x4 400/C6 Dana60

85lebaront2

Re: Carburetor feedback needed

Administrator

In reply to this post by dirtymac

If it is the original carb, it will be an Autolite (maybe Motorcraft by 1982) 2100 or 2150. Kits used to be extremely plentiful for them and were pretty universal (Carter 902-857D, Standard 77-857D, Autolite or Ford CT499D were what I stocked along with one in a plastic bag I used in the shop that was the same quality, just only cost me $2.00 each) Stay away from Tomco, their gaskets are soft and their inlet needle and seat is a POS.

It is one of the simplest 2 barrel carbs ever built, two castings, a choke assembly and a cluster. I can almost build one blindfolded.

Biggest issue I can think of on a 41 year old carburetor is wear on the throttle shaft and main body casting. Depending on the return spring layout either the front side or back side of the shaft and bore will be worn, this leads to sticking when returning to idle. Other than putting bushings in as the remanufacturers do, there isn't a good fix.

The reason I don't recommend reman carbs, I know what I was selling to a core supply house 40-45 years ago, junk that was either stuff throw together or just flat worn out, I doubt the quality has improved since then.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

"Getting old is inevitable, growing up is optional" Darth Vader 1986 F350 460 converted to MAF/SEFI, E4OD 12X3 1/2 rear brakes, traction loc 3:55 gear, 160 amp 3G alternator Wife's 2011 Flex Limited Daily Driver 2009 Flex Limited with factory tow package Project car 1986 Chrysler LeBaron convertible 2.2L Turbo II, modified A413

dirtymac

Re: Carburetor feedback needed

Unfortunately, this is not the original carb. This is a remanufactured 2150. Other than that, I don't know much about it. It could be even older than the truck. Your comment about wear on the throttle shaft are interesting considering the issues I am having.

Will
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1982 F250 4x4 400/C6 Dana60

85lebaront2

Re: Carburetor feedback needed

Administrator

That was why I mentioned it. If the rebuilder did not grind it off, the Ford PN was stamped on the side of the base next to the left front mounting bolt. There is also a cast in venturii size on that side of the float bowl.

I would expect the size to be maybe 1.21-1.23 as that was what the 390 two barrels were, the biggest factory I believe was 1.33 used on the 429 two barrel engine.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

dirtymac

Re: Carburetor feedback needed

I have a couple of images that, I think, show off the front left mounting bolt area and the venturi stamp better.

I am concerned about the venturi size for this engine, because I am pretty certain this stamp reads 1.08. Maybe you can interpret the stamp better.

As for the front left bolt area, I think there is a partial 64 but that's all I have been able to find.

Will
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1982 F250 4x4 400/C6 Dana60

85lebaront2

Re: Carburetor feedback needed

Administrator

Ok. 1.08 venturii size = 302 carburetor. Partial on L Front flange is EA which would be the last part of the PN, example could be D1TF-9510-EA where the 9510 (basic number for carburetors) is understood.

Sizes to approximate CFM:
0.98 = 190 CFM
1.01 = 240 CFM
1.02 = 245 CFM
1.08 = 287 CFM
1.14 = 300 CFM
1.21 = 351 CFM
1.23 = 356 CFM
1.33 = 424 CFM
As you can see, even working perfectly it is not an adequate size carburetor for your 400 engine. The other gem is the screw holding the throttle lever on the shaft (wonder if it was one of my old cores?).

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

ArdWrknTrk

Re: Carburetor feedback needed

Administrator

Bill,
Can you elaborate on the different vacuum levels that 2 & 4V carburetors are rated at?

2V @ 3" and 4V 1.5" depression....

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

85lebaront2

Re: Carburetor feedback needed

Administrator

Jim, unfortunately neither is a real good test, Weber rates theirs at I think it was 0.5" depression so their flow rates can be way higher if tested like most other carburetors.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

ArdWrknTrk

Re: Carburetor feedback needed

Administrator

I'm just trying to point out that there's no direct comparison between 2 & 4V cfm ratings.

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

dirtymac

Re: Carburetor feedback needed

In reply to this post by 85lebaront2

Yeah, I wish I knew more about the original issue with the truck. I received a bunch of random receipts. The carburetor was originally replaced along with the main fuel take, sending unit, and fuel pump. Then, several years later, the carburetor was replaced again. Also, at some point, the smog was removed and the EGR stuff was plugged off.

So the venturi are undersized. The throttle is sticking. I haven't found any vacuum leaks. Between those things, I don't think it is worth trying to rebuild this carburetor.

At some point, I want to consider electronic throttle body upgrade. That is further down the road once I have sorted through other pressing issues. In the mean time, I think a carburetor replacement/upgrade is in order. I plan to drive this truck daily.

I would love to stick with the a 2150 but I don't want to get stuck with a bad rebuild. I know there are, let's call them reproduction, versions out there. I know there are also 4 barrel upgrades I could do, but I don't think those are necessary.

If anyone has recommendations or advice around this path, I'm all ears.

Will
--
1982 F250 4x4 400/C6 Dana60

85lebaront2

Re: Carburetor feedback needed

Administrator

I have seen some decent reviews and some bad ones on the Chinese knock-offs from Amazon. When right they are apparently an excellent replacement, but I can't determine the venturii size. They are only listed as fitting up to 351 ci though.

I need to make a run to my favorite junkyard, probably next week as traffic is going to be worse than usual on I 64 across the James river and into and out of Hampton due to a scheduled vist by Kamala Harris to Hampton University Thursday. I can ask if he's got some carburetors stashed in some of his buldings and if so maybe find you a 1.21 or larger rebuildable 2150 (Maybe a 1.33?).

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

dirtymac

Re: Carburetor feedback needed

I would appreciate that. My local junkyard has a few similar vehicles but I don't know that I could tell what was worth pulling.

I have found some at United Automotive Remanufacturing and National Carburetors. I'm not sure of the quality or if they have the right size venturi.

I would definitely like to get something that I can easily identify in case I need parts in the future.

Will
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1982 F250 4x4 400/C6 Dana60

Gary Lewis

Re: Carburetor feedback needed

Administrator

This may not help, but here's what I've found.

First, there are only two calibration parts list numbers for an 82 truck w/a 400 & a C6 not in CA: 53 and 240

And here are parts of those parts lists showing the correct carb #'s. It isn't likely you'll find those, but just in case.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

85lebaront2

Re: Carburetor feedback needed

Administrator

In reply to this post by dirtymac

As far as a rebuild kit, other than 1957 models one size fit all CT499D from Ford, 902-857D from Carter, 77-857D from Standard I think was the 3rd one I stocked (needed that many sources to keep up with the demand). Numbers may be higher up the alphabet by now.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

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