Another round of projects.

[IDIBronco]

I know little about dual vacuum distributors.

Perhaps Bill has some advice?

Been reading about the dual port distributor some. It looks like it is controlled from the 3 port thermal operated vacuum switch on the thermostat housing. It is able to control the amount of advance due to allowing vacuum to go to the distributor to basically negate the vacuum advance. I could be wrong, but the vacuum diaphragm for advance has the ability to have vacuum applied to both sides. When the thermal switch allows vacuum to the retard side of the diaphragm it negates the force being applied to the advance side of the diaphragm.

http://www.concoursmustang.com/speegle/68%20Mustang/Article%20-%2068%20Vacuum%20Routing.pdf

I looked at this for a while, but I need to really think about how I want to plumb the system back up.

I need to figure out the advantages and disadvantages of using the manifold vacuum source and carb referenced vacuum source.

I am sure it all falls down to how you want the system to act, but I figured out just enough now to know I definitely do not know enough yet...

 

[FuzzFace2]

Been reading about the dual port distributor some. It looks like it is controlled from the 3 port thermal operated vacuum switch on the thermostat housing. It is able to control the amount of advance due to allowing vacuum to go to the distributor to basically negate the vacuum advance. I could be wrong, but the vacuum diaphragm for advance has the ability to have vacuum applied to both sides. When the thermal switch allows vacuum to the retard side of the diaphragm it negates the force being applied to the advance side of the diaphragm.

http://www.concoursmustang.com/speegle/68%20Mustang/Article%20-%2068%20Vacuum%20Routing.pdf

I looked at this for a while, but I need to really think about how I want to plumb the system back up.

I need to figure out the advantages and disadvantages of using the manifold vacuum source and carb referenced vacuum source.

I am sure it all falls down to how you want the system to act, but I figured out just enough now to know I definitely do not know enough yet...

If me I would not plumb it to the retard side port only the advance side port.

As for carb port or manifold port for vacuum they say try it either way to see what works best for you.

Dave ----

[IDIBronco]

If me I would not plumb it to the retard side port only the advance side port.

As for carb port or manifold port for vacuum they say try it either way to see what works best for you.

Dave ----

For the time being I am leaving the retard side to atmosphere. I have all loose vacuum lines plugged.

I do have some weird observations in trying to get this thing started again...

1. Now if I leave the wire that energizes the solenoid from the key hooked up as soon as you try to hook a battery up it tries to crank. Bad ignition switch? The switch is currently in the run position. I have tried turning key off and on a few times. I turn the key off, hook up the battery, and turn key to just run and it tries to crank the starter. Turn key off it stops. Anyone had this issue?

2. I have that wire unhooked and turned the key to run position so I can attempt to crank and observe from the passenger fender using a screw driver to energize solenoid to crank. So far it will spin around a bit then when it does try to fire it is a solid backfire and spins backwards a bit. So far I have installed a new coil and duraspark box. I have done nothing other then open the distributor and clean the contacts a bit and reassemble. So I can't have other it out of time.

3. Upon unhooking the battery after playing with it 3 different times now there has been a spark discharge that rotated the motor as soon as the battery looses connection.

I am really scratching my head.

Does the duraspark have the ability to retard the timing with the key in the start position? It would make sense the ignition timing is too advanced when trying to start by jumping the solenoid then causing a condition where the cylinder fires too soon pushing the piston down opening the intake valve and a rush of "backfire" comes through intake and carb.

I am struggling trying to work this out at the moment. All emissions and egr are removed/ plugged. I have the carb fuel mix set at 3/4 of a turn out from bottomed out. I have adjusted it as far as 2 turns out and everything acts the same.

This is a new knock off carb from China.

Any ideas?

Input greatly appreciated.

[ArdWrknTrk]

For the time being I am leaving the retard side to atmosphere. I have all loose vacuum lines plugged.

I do have some weird observations in trying to get this thing started again...

1. Now if I leave the wire that energizes the solenoid from the key hooked up as soon as you try to hook a battery up it tries to crank. Bad ignition switch? The switch is currently in the run position. I have tried turning key off and on a few times. I turn the key off, hook up the battery, and turn key to just run and it tries to crank the starter. Turn key off it stops. Anyone had this issue?

2. I have that wire unhooked and turned the key to run position so I can attempt to crank and observe from the passenger fender using a screw driver to energize solenoid to crank. So far it will spin around a bit then when it does try to fire it is a solid backfire and spins backwards a bit. So far I have installed a new coil and duraspark box. I have done nothing other then open the distributor and clean the contacts a bit and reassemble. So I can't have other it out of time.

3. Upon unhooking the battery after playing with it 3 different times now there has been a spark discharge that rotated the motor as soon as the battery looses connection.

I am really scratching my head.

Does the duraspark have the ability to retard the timing with the key in the start position? It would make sense the ignition timing is too advanced when trying to start by jumping the solenoid then causing a condition where the cylinder fires too soon pushing the piston down opening the intake valve and a rush of "backfire" comes through intake and carb.

I am struggling trying to work this out at the moment. All emissions and egr are removed/ plugged. I have the carb fuel mix set at 3/4 of a turn out from bottomed out. I have adjusted it as far as 2 turns out and everything acts the same.

This is a new knock off carb from China.

Any ideas?

Input greatly appreciated.

Yes. The DSII retards the ignition 1ms (approx 4°) while the starter is engaged.

IF the wiring is hooked up correctly.

Any ignition will fire when you allow the field to collapse in the primary side of the coil.

This will happen when the module opens the ground...

***When you remove power to the hot sure of the coil...

Or even if you tap the DSII distributor with a screwdriver handle.

It could be a mis-adjusted ignition switch.

But then the relay (and starter) would be engaged all the time the key was in the 'run' position.

Gary has the procedure for inserting a pin and loosening the two nuts holding it to the steering column.

 

[Gary Lewis]

Yes. The DSII retards the ignition 1ms (approx 4°) while the starter is engaged.

IF the wiring is hooked up correctly.

Any ignition will fire when you allow the field to collapse in the primary side of the coil.

This will happen when the module opens the ground...

***When you remove power to the hot sure of the coil...

Or even if you tap the DSII distributor with a screwdriver handle.

It could be a mis-adjusted ignition switch.

But then the relay (and starter) would be engaged all the time the key was in the 'run' position.

Gary has the procedure for inserting a pin and loosening the two nuts holding it to the steering column.

If it cranks when you hook up then maybe you are connecting to the wrong small pin on the relay? One side connects to the key and the other to the ignition to retard the spark.

On the ignition switch instructions: Documentation/Electrical/Ignition and then the Ignition Switch tab, IIRC.

[ArdWrknTrk]

If it cranks when you hook up then maybe you are connecting to the wrong small pin on the relay? One side connects to the key and the other to the ignition to retard the spark.

On the ignition switch instructions: Documentation/Electrical/Ignition and then the Ignition Switch tab, IIRC.

It does appear that (at least in the '81 EVTM) The retard is triggered directly by the ignition switch, not the 'i' terminal of the relay.

DO note that red and white wires cross at the DSII module power plug (C321)

[IDIBronco]

If it cranks when you hook up then maybe you are connecting to the wrong small pin on the relay? One side connects to the key and the other to the ignition to retard the spark.

On the ignition switch instructions: Documentation/Electrical/Ignition and then the Ignition Switch tab, IIRC.

The original solenoid had just one small terminal and 2 large terminals. The replacement (from the 1981 van) has 2 small terminals an 2 large terminals. One marked "S" and one marked "I". I assumed the wire that had run to the previous solenoid ha to go to "S" on the new solenoid. The "S" terminal has clean threads and was where the van wiring was connected. The van left the "I" termal empty just as it had been on the van (light rust on the threads). So I just matched the van. When I get a few minutes later I will look at trying to realign the start switch, although I have a good switch I think on the automatic column I removed from the Bronco during the C6 to T19 conversion. I may try to install it.

I also have noted and may not have mentioned this welding truck is a T18 not a T19. I had never looked closely enough at the driver's side of the transmission to see the lack of the second PTO cover. I didn't actually realize that until I took the starter out the other day. I also have found a Ford remanufactured tag on the engine block directly above the starter. I haven't tried to clean it off to inspect what the tag shows yet, but clearly this motor is not original.

[ArdWrknTrk]

The original solenoid had just one small terminal and 2 large terminals. The replacement (from the 1981 van) has 2 small terminals an 2 large terminals. One marked "S" and one marked "I". I assumed the wire that had run to the previous solenoid ha to go to "S" on the new solenoid. The "S" terminal has clean threads and was where the van wiring was connected. The van left the "I" termal empty just as it had been on the van (light rust on the threads). So I just matched the van. When I get a few minutes later I will look at trying to realign the start switch, although I have a good switch I think on the automatic column I removed from the Bronco during the C6 to T19 conversion. I may try to install it.

I also have noted and may not have mentioned this welding truck is a T18 not a T19. I had never looked closely enough at the driver's side of the transmission to see the lack of the second PTO cover. I didn't actually realize that until I took the starter out the other day. I also have found a Ford remanufactured tag on the engine block directly above the starter. I haven't tried to clean it off to inspect what the tag shows yet, but clearly this motor is not original.

Windsor bell pattern trucks got the T-18 (with deeper 1st that's not synchro)

To the best of my knowledge only the 460's and diesels came with T19's.

[Gary Lewis]

Windsor bell pattern trucks got the T-18 (with deeper 1st that's not synchro)

To the best of my knowledge only the 460's and diesels came with T19's.

Yep, only the 460's and diesels got the T-19.

[IDIBronco]

Windsor bell pattern trucks got the T-18 (with deeper 1st that's not synchro)

To the best of my knowledge only the 460's and diesels came with T19's.

After thinking about it some this evening I think I will go ahead and dig out my vacuum hand pump and pull a vacuum on the retard side of the distributor tomorrow. I just want to get it to start and run and figure out getting the carb tuned. Perhaps I can work the system to operate for now. Then I will try and work out the start/solenoid issue. Seems that it should be able to sufficiently retard the timing enough to get it to start without the retarding from the duraspark, and without adjusting the distributor any.

Will report back after that.

I didn't realize the sbf was stuck with the T18. If the truck doesn't get fixed up and does get used for parts I will save the transmission for the m38 willys Jeep I have parked waiting for it's turn as a project. I understand there are adapters available 1" long that would allow a short enough package to fit. Plus the low first get would work in the flat fender.