StraightSix Posted February 15 Author Share Posted February 15 Move all the leads one post to the left I've always had good luck with Carter pumps. (bailed when I saw Gary had replied) Thanks Guys! I couldnt get the picture tool to work yesterday, Ill try again today. Ill try to include photos of the valve cover spacer, the new electrical infrastructure, etc. When I say it drank half a gallon of coolant, that was in the first few minutes of the run and I assume it was from filling the heater core, manifold heating pocket, and working out trapped air bubbles in the head. Its good to know that Im not crazy about the starter sounding different. Oddly enough, I wired mine with a jumper from the batt post to the start signal post on the starter instead of moving the power lead to the starter solenoid start post. The idea of that long and large of a lead without a switch or fuse scares me. I know thats how all of the newer vehicles are. I may just have to spend some time getting comfortable with wire routing for that one. It took me a bit of effort to do, but I think the electrical work will pay off in the ease of service and expansion as well as reliability. And it looks cleaner. For now, my stated plan is to put the MSD box right where you suggest, on the wheel well infront of the DS2 box mount location. Its reasonably weather protected, far from exhaust heat on a L6 engine, and probably no worse than anywhere else under hood in terms of vibration. I initially wanted to mount it in the pocket in the driver side fender where the tire iron goes but it is actually too big to go in that spot. Figures. Jim, If I ever have a need to go back to a mechanical pump Ill focus on carters. I think this one was a delphi. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArdWrknTrk Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 Thanks Guys! I couldnt get the picture tool to work yesterday, Ill try again today. Ill try to include photos of the valve cover spacer, the new electrical infrastructure, etc. When I say it drank half a gallon of coolant, that was in the first few minutes of the run and I assume it was from filling the heater core, manifold heating pocket, and working out trapped air bubbles in the head. Its good to know that Im not crazy about the starter sounding different. Oddly enough, I wired mine with a jumper from the batt post to the start signal post on the starter instead of moving the power lead to the starter solenoid start post. The idea of that long and large of a lead without a switch or fuse scares me. I know thats how all of the newer vehicles are. I may just have to spend some time getting comfortable with wire routing for that one. It took me a bit of effort to do, but I think the electrical work will pay off in the ease of service and expansion as well as reliability. And it looks cleaner. For now, my stated plan is to put the MSD box right where you suggest, on the wheel well infront of the DS2 box mount location. Its reasonably weather protected, far from exhaust heat on a L6 engine, and probably no worse than anywhere else under hood in terms of vibration. I initially wanted to mount it in the pocket in the driver side fender where the tire iron goes but it is actually too big to go in that spot. Figures. Jim, If I ever have a need to go back to a mechanical pump Ill focus on carters. I think this one was a delphi. Thanks! GM & Mopar have been 100% hot at the starter forever.... Do NOT jumper the starter solenoid from the cable and have both coming off the fender relay. This should be explained (in detail!) in Gary's primer on PMGR upgrades so I'm not going to get into it, and I don't mean to criticize. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StraightSix Posted February 15 Author Share Posted February 15 GM & Mopar have been 100% hot at the starter forever.... Do NOT jumper the starter solenoid from the cable and have both coming off the fender relay. This should be explained (in detail!) in Gary's primer on PMGR upgrades so I'm not going to get into it, and I don't mean to criticize. Jim, No criticism taken. I recognize that what Ive done causes both solenoids to carry the full current for the starter, and that there is no reason not to run power from the battery to the starter in electrical terms. It sure is how this starter was intended to be used not to mention just anout every other late make vehile on the planet. Short of that, is it likely to cause any damage or loss of performance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArdWrknTrk Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 Jim, No criticism taken. I recognize that what Ive done causes both solenoids to carry the full current for the starter, and that there is no reason not to run power from the battery to the starter in electrical terms. It sure is how this starter was intended to be used not to mention just anout every other late make vehile on the planet. Short of that, is it likely to cause any damage or loss of performance? The starter motor can (will!) backfeed the solenoid and cause it to hesitate disengaging the drive gear. In a really bad case it could hold the starter on, because the only reason to have one (except for headers) is to keep the fender relay from welding closed, and the starter from turning constantly. By using the fender relay output, you haven't accomplished the whole purpose for the mod... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StraightSix Posted February 15 Author Share Posted February 15 Jim, No criticism taken. I recognize that what Ive done causes both solenoids to carry the full current for the starter, and that there is no reason not to run power from the battery to the starter in electrical terms. It sure is how this starter was intended to be used not to mention just anout every other late make vehile on the planet. Short of that, is it likely to cause any damage or loss of performance? As food for thought, in trucks that dont use the I terminal of the starter solenoid, the starter solenoid could be eliminated completely by running the wire from the s terminal down to the pmgr solenoid and landing the starter cable on the battery Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StraightSix Posted February 15 Author Share Posted February 15 As food for thought, in trucks that dont use the I terminal of the starter solenoid, the starter solenoid could be eliminated completely by running the wire from the s terminal down to the pmgr solenoid and landing the starter cable on the battery Huh. I didnt realize that was a risk. I may have more wiring work to do! Thanks Jim! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArdWrknTrk Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 As food for thought, in trucks that dont use the I terminal of the starter solenoid, the starter solenoid could be eliminated completely by running the wire from the s terminal down to the pmgr solenoid and landing the starter cable on the battery Look at the documentation. My starter solenoid is 40 amps to pull and 13 amps to hold. You don't want to even think about running that through your ignition switch.... And that's why I say run a 10-12 gauge wire from the fender relay down to the starter solenoid. Ford didn't include the fender relay on the 94+ trucks to pee away money. But they did screw up, using a spade terminal down there where it's sure to get corroded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Lewis Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 Look at the documentation. My starter solenoid is 40 amps to pull and 13 amps to hold. You don't want to even think about running that through your ignition switch.... And that's why I say run a 10-12 gauge wire from the fender relay down to the starter solenoid. Ford didn't include the fender relay on the 94+ trucks to pee away money. But they did screw up, using a spade terminal down there where it's sure to get corroded. Jim is way ahead of me on that, but I agree with what he said. Further since you are setting up relays for everything, I tried running the PMGR starter's relay using a 40A Bosch relay. It worked for a while but started causing the starter to disengage & re-engage during a start. Awful sound! I then called Powermaster, who made the starter, and they said NOT to do what I'd done, in no uncertain terms, but to use the fender mounted relay. So I went back to having the key trigger the big fender-mounted starter relay to then pull in the starter's own relay and it works nicely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArdWrknTrk Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 Jim is way ahead of me on that, but I agree with what he said. Further since you are setting up relays for everything, I tried running the PMGR starter's relay using a 40A Bosch relay. It worked for a while but started causing the starter to disengage & re-engage during a start. Awful sound! I then called Powermaster, who made the starter, and they said NOT to do what I'd done, in no uncertain terms, but to use the fender mounted relay. So I went back to having the key trigger the big fender-mounted starter relay to then pull in the starter's own relay and it works nicely. I'm still on the cheap Chinese 40 amp relay that came with my tiny fuse box.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StraightSix Posted February 15 Author Share Posted February 15 I'm still on the cheap Chinese 40 amp relay that came with my tiny fuse box.... Holy smokes. I had no clue that the pmgr solenoid would draw that kind of amperage. It looks like I need to go back to the board on this one. Sorry and thank you! Do you guys have any good tricks for landing so many leads on tge starter solenoid batt post and the battery terminal? Currently or in the near future, those two locations will need to host the battery-starter solenoid lead, the starter solenoid to starter lead, my winches hot cable, the MSD power wire, the truck harness power wire, and the leads that feed my two new fender mounted relays. Thats a lot! Most of those are size 4 wires with the exception of the winch (size 2), the feed to the truck, the MSD, and one of the two relays (size 10). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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