84 Bronco 3g alternator upgrade problem

[FuzzFace2]

I frequently liken these truck to onions. We peel the problems, layer by layer, and cry. But eventually we have enough onion rings for a Blooming Onion!

So, one problem down and more to go. Yep, you probably have a vacuum leak causing the fast idle.

How do you have the charcoal canister plumbed?

IIRC it should go to solenoid valves that work off the feed back computer.

If you removed the valves did you put the hose from the canister to a vacuum source?

And yes been there done that

Dave ----

[StraightSix]

How do you have the charcoal canister plumbed?

IIRC it should go to solenoid valves that work off the feed back computer.

If you removed the valves did you put the hose from the canister to a vacuum source?

And yes been there done that

Dave ----

Gary- if these trucks are onions mine must be a vidalia.

Fuzz face- truth be told I hadnt looked into the charcoal canister at all. I repeated my cigar expiriment today and got nothing from blowing into the line from the MAP sensor. I then blew into all three va tubes oing bqck tothe solenoids that are mounted on the rear of the driverside of the valve cover. The pink one (maybe not the original color) that lands on the farthest rearward solenoid blew out a bunch of smoke very easily. The other two let off a little bit with a fair deal of mouth pressure. All of this occured with the engine good and hot. I should play around with the charcoal canister. Thruthfully, my knowledge if the solenoids and their functions is pretty slim. I may have more reading to do. Thanks for the suggestions!

I did install a new fuel filter and that stopped my fuel leak. Now Im sitting here with my 2150 daydreaming about December and trying to get a good understanding of all of these linkages.

[1986F150Six]

Fuzz face- truth be told I hadnt looked into the charcoal canister at all. I repeated my cigar expiriment today and got nothing from blowing into the line from the MAP sensor. I then blew into all three va tubes oing bqck tothe solenoids that are mounted on the rear of the driverside of the valve cover. The pink one (maybe not the original color) that lands on the farthest rearward solenoid blew out a bunch of smoke very easily. The other two let off a little bit with a fair deal of mouth pressure. All of this occured with the engine good and hot. I should play around with the charcoal canister. Thruthfully, my knowledge if the solenoids and their functions is pretty slim. I may have more reading to do. Thanks for the suggestions!

These small plastic vacuum lines become brittle and can leak or break. These are attached at the ends via a rubber adapter. The whole line(s) can be replaced with the appropriate ID rubber vacuum hose. Use a sharp utility knife or razor blade to gingerly cut through the rubber adapter so the line can come off without breaking the plastic fittings on the solenoids.

Do this one line at a time so you do not cross the lines. It will be wise to mark each rubber line so you know what the original color was. Some people use small wire ties of the closest color [i.e. red for pink] wrapped around the appropriate rubber hose, since all the vacuum lines will now be black. Or, take a short piece of the original colored plastic vacuum line and tape it to the replacement rubber vacuum hose.

Any vacuum leak will cause idle problems. The cigar works!

 

[FuzzFace2]

Fuzz face- truth be told I hadnt looked into the charcoal canister at all. I repeated my cigar expiriment today and got nothing from blowing into the line from the MAP sensor. I then blew into all three va tubes oing bqck tothe solenoids that are mounted on the rear of the driverside of the valve cover. The pink one (maybe not the original color) that lands on the farthest rearward solenoid blew out a bunch of smoke very easily. The other two let off a little bit with a fair deal of mouth pressure. All of this occured with the engine good and hot. I should play around with the charcoal canister. Thruthfully, my knowledge if the solenoids and their functions is pretty slim. I may have more reading to do. Thanks for the suggestions!

These small plastic vacuum lines become brittle and can leak or break. These are attached at the ends via a rubber adapter. The whole line(s) can be replaced with the appropriate ID rubber vacuum hose. Use a sharp utility knife or razor blade to gingerly cut through the rubber adapter so the line can come off without breaking the plastic fittings on the solenoids.

Do this one line at a time so you do not cross the lines. It will be wise to mark each rubber line so you know what the original color was. Some people use small wire ties of the closest color [i.e. red for pink] wrapped around the appropriate rubber hose, since all the vacuum lines will now be black. Or, take a short piece of the original colored plastic vacuum line and tape it to the replacement rubber vacuum hose.

Any vacuum leak will cause idle problems. The cigar works!

Thing is I think he is trying to remove the feed back computer & wiring.

What started us down this hole was the wires to the solenoids is from the feed back system.

If so then he would not need to replace the hoses.

I also think but not sure, them solenoids may be open to release vacuum at times but not cause a vacuum leak.

My truck being an 81 did not have solenoids but used some kind of switch, that I also did not have, to purge the canisters. What I did was pipe the canisters (2 because I have dual tanks) the way the radiator sticker has it but with out the "switch".

I could not adjust my idle as low as it should have been. In checking for a leak I don't know how I tripped on it but I found this piping with out the "switch" caused a vacuum leak.

My fix was to take the smallest Holley jet I had and install it in line to restrick the vacuum but still have some to pull the vapors from the canisters. Because I am checking why I am only getting mid 14's MPG I have disconnected the vacuum as I was thinking it may be pulling to much vapors and causing the poor MPG but so far no such luck

So just be careful when hooking vacuum to the canisters.

Dave ----

[StraightSix]

Fuzz face- truth be told I hadnt looked into the charcoal canister at all. I repeated my cigar expiriment today and got nothing from blowing into the line from the MAP sensor. I then blew into all three va tubes oing bqck tothe solenoids that are mounted on the rear of the driverside of the valve cover. The pink one (maybe not the original color) that lands on the farthest rearward solenoid blew out a bunch of smoke very easily. The other two let off a little bit with a fair deal of mouth pressure. All of this occured with the engine good and hot. I should play around with the charcoal canister. Thruthfully, my knowledge if the solenoids and their functions is pretty slim. I may have more reading to do. Thanks for the suggestions!

These small plastic vacuum lines become brittle and can leak or break. These are attached at the ends via a rubber adapter. The whole line(s) can be replaced with the appropriate ID rubber vacuum hose. Use a sharp utility knife or razor blade to gingerly cut through the rubber adapter so the line can come off without breaking the plastic fittings on the solenoids.

Do this one line at a time so you do not cross the lines. It will be wise to mark each rubber line so you know what the original color was. Some people use small wire ties of the closest color [i.e. red for pink] wrapped around the appropriate rubber hose, since all the vacuum lines will now be black. Or, take a short piece of the original colored plastic vacuum line and tape it to the replacement rubber vacuum hose.

Any vacuum leak will cause idle problems. The cigar works!

Thing is I think he is trying to remove the feed back computer & wiring.

What started us down this hole was the wires to the solenoids is from the feed back system.

If so then he would not need to replace the hoses.

I also think but not sure, them solenoids may be open to release vacuum at times but not cause a vacuum leak.

My truck being an 81 did not have solenoids but used some kind of switch, that I also did not have, to purge the canisters. What I did was pipe the canisters (2 because I have dual tanks) the way the radiator sticker has it but with out the "switch".

I could not adjust my idle as low as it should have been. In checking for a leak I don't know how I tripped on it but I found this piping with out the "switch" caused a vacuum leak.

My fix was to take the smallest Holley jet I had and install it in line to restrick the vacuum but still have some to pull the vapors from the canisters. Because I am checking why I am only getting mid 14's MPG I have disconnected the vacuum as I was thinking it may be pulling to much vapors and causing the poor MPG but so far no such luck

So just be careful when hooking vacuum to the canisters.

Dave ----

Hey eveybody! I didnt get a chance to work on the bronco any today but will be back at it soon. Thanks for the vacuum leak suggestions. I will very likely try out a can of ether as well as re-running the vacuum lines to the solenoids.

For clarity, I do want to keep the feedback system running for about the next month. I do have extensive upgrades planned to start around early-mid December (2150 carb, offy c, ds2, efi manifolds and 2.5" exhaust). For the next few weeks I need a reliable running 4wd so I dont want to start all of that up just yet even though it means spending time troubleshooting equipment that has a very limited life on my engine.

As a possible "option 2" I have a carter 1 barrel off of an 82 300-6 pickup that doesnt seem to have feedback equipment. I also have all of the components for the ds2 upgrade (harness, distributor, and coil off of that same 82 engine, new motorcraft module and a new distributor cap in the mail). I suppose if I wanted to do the ds2 and the non feedback carb it would allow me to eliminate a lot of the vacuum lines. It would also give me the benefit of getting to troubleshoot the ds2 system without having to worry about all of the other new variables all at once. Im taking advice, opinions, and crack shots on the topic.

As always, thanks for reading and thanks for the advice.

[Gary Lewis]

Hey eveybody! I didnt get a chance to work on the bronco any today but will be back at it soon. Thanks for the vacuum leak suggestions. I will very likely try out a can of ether as well as re-running the vacuum lines to the solenoids.

For clarity, I do want to keep the feedback system running for about the next month. I do have extensive upgrades planned to start around early-mid December (2150 carb, offy c, ds2, efi manifolds and 2.5" exhaust). For the next few weeks I need a reliable running 4wd so I dont want to start all of that up just yet even though it means spending time troubleshooting equipment that has a very limited life on my engine.

As a possible "option 2" I have a carter 1 barrel off of an 82 300-6 pickup that doesnt seem to have feedback equipment. I also have all of the components for the ds2 upgrade (harness, distributor, and coil off of that same 82 engine, new motorcraft module and a new distributor cap in the mail). I suppose if I wanted to do the ds2 and the non feedback carb it would allow me to eliminate a lot of the vacuum lines. It would also give me the benefit of getting to troubleshoot the ds2 system without having to worry about all of the other new variables all at once. Im taking advice, opinions, and crack shots on the topic.

As always, thanks for reading and thanks for the advice.

I think Option 2 would be what I'd do. Actually, I'd put the DS-II system in and get it running with that. Then I'd swap carbs. That way you'd know what the issue is if it doesn't run.

Then you can remove the DS-III system and get ready for the 2150, intake, exhaust, etc. You'll have the truck down shorter periods of time and can even measure the difference in MPG, if not power, as you go.

[ArdWrknTrk]

I think Option 2 would be what I'd do. Actually, I'd put the DS-II system in and get it running with that. Then I'd swap carbs. That way you'd know what the issue is if it doesn't run.

Then you can remove the DS-III system and get ready for the 2150, intake, exhaust, etc. You'll have the truck down shorter periods of time and can even measure the difference in MPG, if not power, as you go.

I definitely agree with Gary

If you can, always change only one thing at a time, to see what's affected and what changes it makes.

This is why I suggested above that you unplug the carb or lock the timing.

If the ECU goes into limp home mode the truck might not run great, but it would run without trying to make adjustments for itself. (Like changing the timing or fuel mixture)

[StraightSix]

I definitely agree with Gary

If you can, always change only one thing at a time, to see what's affected and what changes it makes.

This is why I suggested above that you unplug the carb or lock the timing.

If the ECU goes into limp home mode the truck might not run great, but it would run without trying to make adjustments for itself. (Like changing the timing or fuel mixture)

Hey guys,

I should have a few hours tonight and a good bit of time over the weekend to work on the engine. I am still on the fence so Ill probably end up splitting the time between trying to identify the cause of my high idle speed and cleaning up/ rebuilding the carb distributor and wiring harness from my 82 engine. Is there any reason to think it would be a good idea to perform the steps for resetting my idle speed? They are listed on a sticker over the radiator.

My main goal in doing the ds2 and carter non feedback carb would be to eliminate vacuum lines, fix my vac leak, and take definitive control of the engines operating state. With that being said, which vacuum lines need to stay? There was a lot of vacuum "stuff" on my junk yard 82 engine when I stripped it.

I know I need to have/keep the line to my cruise control, the brake booster, a new line for vacuum advance, and probably something for the evap system. Is that really all? I would also need to find a way to block the egr, most likely a coke can?

My donor engine came out of a truck with an automatic transmission. Does that have any bearing here, esecially on the carb?

This is starting to feel like it needs its own thread, probably just a general build thread for my Bronco. We are way past the scope of an alternator upgrade here. When I decide for sure how to approach this Ill start a new one.

Jim,

What engine do you have in your truck?

[ArdWrknTrk]

Hey guys,

I should have a few hours tonight and a good bit of time over the weekend to work on the engine. I am still on the fence so Ill probably end up splitting the time between trying to identify the cause of my high idle speed and cleaning up/ rebuilding the carb distributor and wiring harness from my 82 engine. Is there any reason to think it would be a good idea to perform the steps for resetting my idle speed? They are listed on a sticker over the radiator.

My main goal in doing the ds2 and carter non feedback carb would be to eliminate vacuum lines, fix my vac leak, and take definitive control of the engines operating state. With that being said, which vacuum lines need to stay? There was a lot of vacuum "stuff" on my junk yard 82 engine when I stripped it.

I know I need to have/keep the line to my cruise control, the brake booster, a new line for vacuum advance, and probably something for the evap system. Is that really all? I would also need to find a way to block the egr, most likely a coke can?

My donor engine came out of a truck with an automatic transmission. Does that have any bearing here, esecially on the carb?

This is starting to feel like it needs its own thread, probably just a general build thread for my Bronco. We are way past the scope of an alternator upgrade here. When I decide for sure how to approach this Ill start a new one.

Jim,

What engine do you have in your truck?

The carb will have a connection for transmission kick down.

You shouldn't need to remove it, but obviously nothing will attach there.

You will probably need vacuum and a reservoir for your climate control, to drive the fresh air/recirc door actuator.

If doing away with EGR entirely consider a $10 phenolic Jeep spacer and a $1.50 pipe plug.

You can ditch all that plumbing and the platform as well.

My engine is a 460.

[Gary Lewis]

Hey guys,

I should have a few hours tonight and a good bit of time over the weekend to work on the engine. I am still on the fence so Ill probably end up splitting the time between trying to identify the cause of my high idle speed and cleaning up/ rebuilding the carb distributor and wiring harness from my 82 engine. Is there any reason to think it would be a good idea to perform the steps for resetting my idle speed? They are listed on a sticker over the radiator.

My main goal in doing the ds2 and carter non feedback carb would be to eliminate vacuum lines, fix my vac leak, and take definitive control of the engines operating state. With that being said, which vacuum lines need to stay? There was a lot of vacuum "stuff" on my junk yard 82 engine when I stripped it.

I know I need to have/keep the line to my cruise control, the brake booster, a new line for vacuum advance, and probably something for the evap system. Is that really all? I would also need to find a way to block the egr, most likely a coke can?

My donor engine came out of a truck with an automatic transmission. Does that have any bearing here, esecially on the carb?

This is starting to feel like it needs its own thread, probably just a general build thread for my Bronco. We are way past the scope of an alternator upgrade here. When I decide for sure how to approach this Ill start a new one.

Jim,

What engine do you have in your truck?

This page attempts to explain what vacuum lines/systems you need: Documentation/Underhood/Vacuum Systems. Oh, and the evap system like you mentioned.

As for where to start, I don't think I'd spend very long trying to fix what you are going to remove. Maybe give it a shot, like an hour at the most, and then move on to installing the DS-II system.

And a build thread would be good. But that's your call. I like having one place to go looking for the things I've posted or people's answers. So one thread for the Bronco would be my approach. But again, that's up to you.