JunkCollector Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 Anyone here updated their rig to EFI using a TBI system? Are you able to use your factory fuel selector? How much fabrication is involved? MPG gains? Wanting to do a writeup on this when I finally have the money for it and Im gathering a much info as I can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Lewis Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 A bit of searching for "EFI" and "throttle" and "body" found these discussions: Fuel Injection Upgrade Dads 85 F250...Rebuilding an old friend 85 F150 302 EFI upgrade/aftermarket modification Need advice on what to do I'm sure there are more and others will chime in, but that should let you see what some are doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
85lebaront2 Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 Ok, a couple of items, your present in-tank pumps are low pressure (around 6 psi) I don't know what the recommended pressure on your TBI system is. The early EFI trucks (1986-89) used a multi pump system where there were two in-tank pumps and a selector valve/reservoir for the high pressure pump to draw from. This could be setup if you can find an early EFI truck in a junkyard. Later (1990-96/7) trucks use one or two (depending on number of tanks) high pressure pumps that are in what Ford calls Fuel Delivery Modules or FDMs the tank selection is done with a dash mounted switch that is a double pole single throw (no off position) which changes the pump and gauge sender. These FDMs have internal shuttle valves (which can leak) that close off the supply and open the return so fuel is drawn and returned to the same tank (in theory). These might work for you, and they will, with slight modification, fit in the older tanks. Gary Lewis has found that the Bullnose senders can be mounted to the later FDMs solving a gauge change issue. Unfortunately, I would not trust 30 + year old low pressure lines to be safe with the higher pressures of even a TBI system so line replacement would be advised. I personally have no love for TBI systems which is why I went to a factory port injection system using an MAF and set up sequentially. To do this requires different heads as Ford changed the port angle on the EFI heads. Edelbrock and possibly others make a port injection intake for the carbureted heads which can also be run using a TBI system as it has a regular Holley carburetor pattern flange. There are a number of threads as Gary pointed out on converting to EFI. I am sure if you ask any of us who have done this will be glad to offer advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty_S85 Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 Ok, a couple of items, your present in-tank pumps are low pressure (around 6 psi) I don't know what the recommended pressure on your TBI system is. The early EFI trucks (1986-89) used a multi pump system where there were two in-tank pumps and a selector valve/reservoir for the high pressure pump to draw from. This could be setup if you can find an early EFI truck in a junkyard. Later (1990-96/7) trucks use one or two (depending on number of tanks) high pressure pumps that are in what Ford calls Fuel Delivery Modules or FDMs the tank selection is done with a dash mounted switch that is a double pole single throw (no off position) which changes the pump and gauge sender. These FDMs have internal shuttle valves (which can leak) that close off the supply and open the return so fuel is drawn and returned to the same tank (in theory). These might work for you, and they will, with slight modification, fit in the older tanks. Gary Lewis has found that the Bullnose senders can be mounted to the later FDMs solving a gauge change issue. Unfortunately, I would not trust 30 + year old low pressure lines to be safe with the higher pressures of even a TBI system so line replacement would be advised. I personally have no love for TBI systems which is why I went to a factory port injection system using an MAF and set up sequentially. To do this requires different heads as Ford changed the port angle on the EFI heads. Edelbrock and possibly others make a port injection intake for the carbureted heads which can also be run using a TBI system as it has a regular Holley carburetor pattern flange. There are a number of threads as Gary pointed out on converting to EFI. I am sure if you ask any of us who have done this will be glad to offer advice. Correct, if he has a EFI setup already all he really needs to do is mount a high pressure pump on the frame and he is good to go and retain the OE system. If he doesnt have OE setup his only other option would be to fabricate one. One option is to install high pressure pumps in the tanks omit the reservior and the high pressure pump on the frame and then install a switching valve for a dual tank setup to switch feed and returns. Lots of work doing this. Easiest would be to do a OE type setup with OE low pressure pumps in tanks with the frame mounted reservior that will keep constant fuel for the pressure pump. Sniper systems need between some 55 to 65 psi and you can change the setting with in the ECU with a laptop, the standard quadrajet style sniper has a built in 58.8 psi pressure regulator and if you go with the sniper stealth you need a regulator with in the pressure range that holley stated. I have the stealth and will be using a 60 psi preset non adjustable regulator that is built into a late model corvette fuel filter. This will require changing the pressure on the ECU via laptop to ensure the fuel table is being done right as injector pulse width and fuel pressure are related if it is opening the injectors for 58.8 psi but you are running 60 psi that little extra pressure will result in spraying more fuel. Normally this wont be a problem if you stick with in this range as the ECU will adjust once the O2 sensor comes up to temperature and takes over controling air/fuel mixture. The problem you may run into is on system prime by getting too much fuel spray. But dual tanks though can be a pita so I personally would suggest setting up a OE setup over cobbling something aftermarket together. Me I thought of going dual tanks to try and get more fuel capacity but then I found a local guy that can cut my fuel tank open to put in baffling so I can mount just a high pressure pump in the tank. Going to have him slice the end of my tank off as well and weld in new material extending my tank some 3 to 5 inches forward to enlarge my 16 gallon tank. I feel this is easier than the plumbing for dual tanks as well as cutting to add a second fill point. Another option I thought of was just simply have one tank and use a tank in the back as a reserve that I can flip a pump on that would pump fuel from that tank into my saddle tank but that is also extra work as well even though I dont need switching valves and a return system. What you could do is use a single switching valve without returns and install a sniper fuel pump module they have a return built in that returns in the tank so all you have is just a pressure line coming out. But I have seen far too many people talk about loud fuel pumps and fuel pump failures with this module so I dont know if I would trust it. Holley does make a MPI EFI kit but I do not know if they have them for Fords, all I see are Chevrolet kits but I heard they actually offer them for Fords. I never personally inquired. https://www.holley.com/products/fuel_systems/fuel_injection/hp_efi/hp_multi-port_kits/ Same as Edelbrock with their ProFlo 4. I havent heard anything bad about the ProFlo 4, I thought of running it but I couldnt as it would require too much conversion to switch my C6 from a kick down rod to a cable. The MPI EFI from holley I have not heard anything bad about them online but I have one at work that the guy has us junking it for a traditional TBI as the guy swears up and down he took it to 7 different tuners and it just runs like horrible and no tuner has been able to get it to run right. I dont know if it was something he was expecting too much out of it or if its just horrible tuners he was taking it to. Another thing i forgot about, if you do go with a late model fuel pump module with the incorrect sender one way to rectify it is Dakota Digital sells a 80-86 gauge cluster that has a programmable fuel gauge with preset sender ranges or you can set a custom sender range. Currently they only have the VHX line up of gauges for our trucks which doesnt look bad but they dont look stock. I am currently hounding them to release the RTX retro line up for our trucks which actually mimic stock gauges quite nicely. I personally am planning on doing this as I want to add more gauges to my truck but dont want to clutter up my interior any more. It also will allow me to save money having my ammeter converted to a volt gauge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JunkCollector Posted August 26, 2020 Author Share Posted August 26, 2020 With everything I'm seeing here, a simple 12v Cummins swap would be less expensive, yeild more power and fuel mileage, and give me even more reliability. I really wanted to keep the 460, but it just cant keep up with my demands for economy. Power isnt really a problem. Thanks for the info, guys! Once I get a parts truck (a while off, leaving my rig alone for now) I'll be posting a thread. I think I've got everything but the cruise control figured out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Lewis Posted August 26, 2020 Share Posted August 26, 2020 With everything I'm seeing here, a simple 12v Cummins swap would be less expensive, yeild more power and fuel mileage, and give me even more reliability. I really wanted to keep the 460, but it just cant keep up with my demands for economy. Power isnt really a problem. Thanks for the info, guys! Once I get a parts truck (a while off, leaving my rig alone for now) I'll be posting a thread. I think I've got everything but the cruise control figured out. At least you've thought through it and settled on a plan logically. And I can't fault the plan. The terms "460" and "economy" don't belong in the same sentence. I'm hoping to maybe reach 14 MPG with mine at a steady 65 MPH, but if I do I'll be one of the few to have gotten there. But Rogue_Wulff says he gets close to 20 MPG with a 6BT in his '80 F150, and supposedly has power to spare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArdWrknTrk Posted August 26, 2020 Share Posted August 26, 2020 At least you've thought through it and settled on a plan logically. And I can't fault the plan. The terms "460" and "economy" don't belong in the same sentence. I'm hoping to maybe reach 14 MPG with mine at a steady 65 MPH, but if I do I'll be one of the few to have gotten there. But Rogue_Wulff says he gets close to 20 MPG with a 6BT in his '80 F150, and supposedly has power to spare. I definitely agree with Gary here. I well understand how displacement and efficiency are at their limit given the age of ICE technology Though I do understand, if you're going to injection why not dump the things that hobble it... like throttles and sparks, and catalytic converters... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old55pete Posted August 29, 2020 Share Posted August 29, 2020 With everything I'm seeing here, a simple 12v Cummins swap would be less expensive, yeild more power and fuel mileage, and give me even more reliability. I really wanted to keep the 460, but it just cant keep up with my demands for economy. Power isnt really a problem. Thanks for the info, guys! Once I get a parts truck (a while off, leaving my rig alone for now) I'll be posting a thread. I think I've got everything but the cruise control figured out. As with every thing else, there are ready wiring harnesses to do 12 valve and 24 valve 5.9 Cummins into 80 and up Fords and Chevys. I would aim you to do a 24 valve swap as they get better millage and have more torque. I have an 86 1/2 Dodge 2500 with the first of the 24 valve engines. The way it sits right this very second, it tips the scales at 9200 lbs. It is a service truck with a Miller DEL 200 welder, a 35 gal Kohler compressor and enough tools to rebuild a C15 Cat engine on the side of the road. Put a 1500 lb car trailer with a 2700 lb race car on it and hit the freeway at 75 to 80 mph and gets a very pleasing 24 mph. That pick up also has an auto trans and 3.55 gears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JunkCollector Posted August 31, 2020 Author Share Posted August 31, 2020 As with every thing else, there are ready wiring harnesses to do 12 valve and 24 valve 5.9 Cummins into 80 and up Fords and Chevys. I would aim you to do a 24 valve swap as they get better millage and have more torque. I have an 86 1/2 Dodge 2500 with the first of the 24 valve engines. The way it sits right this very second, it tips the scales at 9200 lbs. It is a service truck with a Miller DEL 200 welder, a 35 gal Kohler compressor and enough tools to rebuild a C15 Cat engine on the side of the road. Put a 1500 lb car trailer with a 2700 lb race car on it and hit the freeway at 75 to 80 mph and gets a very pleasing 24 mph. That pick up also has an auto trans and 3.55 gears. Ill be running a p pump 12 valve simply for the easier tunability. With simple mods I can be at 600hp and still have good fuel mileage. Plus I can avoid all the electronic garbage on the newer engines. From what Ive found I can: Run my factory cruise servo, Run my power steering box to the Dodge pump, Relocate and run the Dodge AC compressor in my system Run a mechanical speedometer adapter for the electronic output on the 47rh transmission. 47re controllers are overpriced for what I'm doing here. Id really rather have a Dodge thats already together, but I already bought this so Im kinda stuck with it. 🙄 I havent figured out a charging system, but I'm thinking a Ford 3g alternator on a custom adapter with a voltmeter gauge conversion. Avoid a flickery Dodge regulator and the weak outdated Ford system. Id like to find an R134a proportioning valve while its all apart but it seems Ford was slow to update anything on these trucks so I doubt that is an option. Anyone else got tips/pointers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old55pete Posted September 1, 2020 Share Posted September 1, 2020 Ill be running a p pump 12 valve simply for the easier tunability. With simple mods I can be at 600hp and still have good fuel mileage. Plus I can avoid all the electronic garbage on the newer engines. From what Ive found I can: Run my factory cruise servo, Run my power steering box to the Dodge pump, Relocate and run the Dodge AC compressor in my system Run a mechanical speedometer adapter for the electronic output on the 47rh transmission. 47re controllers are overpriced for what I'm doing here. Id really rather have a Dodge thats already together, but I already bought this so Im kinda stuck with it. 🙄 I havent figured out a charging system, but I'm thinking a Ford 3g alternator on a custom adapter with a voltmeter gauge conversion. Avoid a flickery Dodge regulator and the weak outdated Ford system. Id like to find an R134a proportioning valve while its all apart but it seems Ford was slow to update anything on these trucks so I doubt that is an option. Anyone else got tips/pointers? Look out for those "simple mods" to pump it up to 600 hp. Every one I have seen, not longer after the " simple mods" were wearing the tops of the pistons in the bottom of the oil pan, But, hey, rolling coal........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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