To Jet-Hot Or Not?

[Gary Lewis]

Recently Jim suggested that I get my to-be headers for Big Blue Jet-Hot coated. I forgot to respond to that, but let's do that in a separate thread rather than in Big Blue's Transformation as there's a remote chance that one or two people have grown weary of the never-ending saga.

I'm planning to go with L&L headers, and probably these 79760FP's which run ~$600, probably plus shipping. (Having said that, Jet-Hot says they sell headers already coated and I've started a conversation with them so will ask if they have some that fit BB.) And the quick quote from Jet-Hot is $365, inc return shipping.

From what I've read there are really two advantages to coating the headers:

• Much longer life to the headers as they aren't going to rust

• Much lower heat emission, thereby reducing underhood temps as well as increasing efficiencies

Yes, there's another - the looks. But while I've powder coated many things, I'm not too worried about the looks of the headers.

So, what are your thoughts? Is it worth 50% more $ to reduce the temps and increase efficiency?

[Ford F834]

Gary, that’s a chunk of change... do they have any data to back up their claims? How much does it reduce heat? It’s not hard to validate that it does, but by how much? What is the amount of life extension over other coatings? I am not suspicious that their claims are false, but I do wonder about the magnitude of the benefit. Do you have any intentions of wrapping the pipes?

[Gary Lewis]

Gary, that’s a chunk of change... do they have any data to back up their claims? How much does it reduce heat? It’s not hard to validate that it does, but by how much? What is the amount of life extension over other coatings? I am not suspicious that their claims are false, but I do wonder about the magnitude of the benefit. Do you have any intentions of wrapping the pipes?

Well, I was mistaken. I'd guessed at the wrong length of headers, and I'd picked the wrong coating. So the price is $561.

I had a really good call with Debi at Jet-Coat, who knows her stuff. First, I'd picked too short of headers and I'd picked the Classic coating. But the longer headers I'm talking about would be $425 with the Classic coating. However, that coating is "only" good to 1200 degrees, and when I said "EFI" she quickly informed me that sometimes that will drive the temp too high for the Classic coating. Instead, she recommended the Offroad coating, which is good to 2000 degrees, and that would be $561 on long-tubes.

As for the temp reduction, the Classic polished coating reduces temps "up to 65%", while the Offroad coating reduces temps "40 - 43%" due to the lack of polish. And

seems to corroborate the 65%.

And I'm not planning to wrap the headers.

So, with the above I think I'm out of the Jet-Hot market. But I don't know that I'm out of the ceramic coating market just yet. I've called HPC Coatings in Oklahoma City and will see what they say.

Or, I might just media-blast them and do some kind of coating myself. Suggestions, folks?

[Ford F834]

Well, I was mistaken. I'd guessed at the wrong length of headers, and I'd picked the wrong coating. So the price is $561.

I had a really good call with Debi at Jet-Coat, who knows her stuff. First, I'd picked too short of headers and I'd picked the Classic coating. But the longer headers I'm talking about would be $425 with the Classic coating. However, that coating is "only" good to 1200 degrees, and when I said "EFI" she quickly informed me that sometimes that will drive the temp too high for the Classic coating. Instead, she recommended the Offroad coating, which is good to 2000 degrees, and that would be $561 on long-tubes.

As for the temp reduction, the Classic polished coating reduces temps "up to 65%", while the Offroad coating reduces temps "40 - 43%" due to the lack of polish. And

seems to corroborate the 65%.

And I'm not planning to wrap the headers.

So, with the above I think I'm out of the Jet-Hot market. But I don't know that I'm out of the ceramic coating market just yet. I've called HPC Coatings in Oklahoma City and will see what they say.

Or, I might just media-blast them and do some kind of coating myself. Suggestions, folks?

I would at least price ceramic coating... that is what Justin at R&D does for all of his hot side pipe kits (he bought the equipment to do that and piston tops). The 2000* aerosol header paint from flame proof is pretty good stuff from what I’ve read but I have not used it myself. Ceramic would still be my choice if not prohibitively expensive.

[Gary Lewis]

I would at least price ceramic coating... that is what Justin at R&D does for all of his hot side pipe kits (he bought the equipment to do that and piston tops). The 2000* aerosol header paint from flame proof is pretty good stuff from what I’ve read but I have not used it myself. Ceramic would still be my choice if not prohibitively expensive.

Not sure what you mean by "ceramic". The VHT paint is said to be ceramic, but that's probably not what you meant - right?

Does Justin do ceramic for others?

I'm reading up on ceramic coatings. CermaKrome looks interesting. I can do 500 degrees in my oven.

[Ford F834]

Not sure what you mean by "ceramic". The VHT paint is said to be ceramic, but that's probably not what you meant - right?

Does Justin do ceramic for others?

I'm reading up on ceramic coatings. CermaKrome looks interesting. I can do 500 degrees in my oven.

I am not knowledgeable on these coatings Gary, but I know the stuff Justin uses on his head pipes, and especially piston tops, is different/better than what comes out of a spray can. I do not know if what he could provide is any different or better than what you may already be able to do in your oven, but he is a good guy to talk to and might have good advice if nothing else. I have not seen him use any chrome-like coatings though. He might be able to, but the parts I bought are more plain. The head pipes are flat black. The turbo exhaust housing is low gloss black. The pistons are an odd olive tan color. He does not specifically name coating service outside of pistons, but ask him. It’s a home/Garage business and he is generally willing to help people with their projects given some lead time.

http://www.idiperformance.com/purchase.html

[FuzzFace2]

I am not knowledgeable on these coatings Gary, but I know the stuff Justin uses on his head pipes, and especially piston tops, is different/better than what comes out of a spray can. I do not know if what he could provide is any different or better than what you may already be able to do in your oven, but he is a good guy to talk to and might have good advice if nothing else. I have not seen him use any chrome-like coatings though. He might be able to, but the parts I bought are more plain. The head pipes are flat black. The turbo exhaust housing is low gloss black. The pistons are an odd olive tan color. He does not specifically name coating service outside of pistons, but ask him. It’s a home/Garage business and he is generally willing to help people with their projects given some lead time.

http://www.idiperformance.com/purchase.html

From what I heard of wrapping headers it is not the thing to do.

Because the header tubes are some what thin the wrap keeps the heat in as it is made to do but this heat hurts the tubes and they tend to crack.

I also hear the wrap keeps in moisture and they rust sooner but that could be the heat?

Unless I had to wrap to keep heat from another part I would not do it.

I also think on headers rusting out if not coated might be BS?

Most that have headers on a car or truck don't drive them as DD so now they have burned off the "paint" and then left sitting till driven maybe on weekends. This will have them rust faster then if used every day.

You will also find this on normal exh. pipes & mufflers if let to sit a lot will rust faster than if driven every day.

Just my .02

BTW how low will the headers hang below the frame of the truck?

Can you tuck the system up even or above the bottom of the frame?

I say this because you are building this for "over landing" so you don't want to get hung up on a low hanging exh. system.

Dave ----

[85lebaront2]

From what I heard of wrapping headers it is not the thing to do.

Because the header tubes are some what thin the wrap keeps the heat in as it is made to do but this heat hurts the tubes and they tend to crack.

I also hear the wrap keeps in moisture and they rust sooner but that could be the heat?

Unless I had to wrap to keep heat from another part I would not do it.

I also think on headers rusting out if not coated might be BS?

Most that have headers on a car or truck don't drive them as DD so now they have burned off the "paint" and then left sitting till driven maybe on weekends. This will have them rust faster then if used every day.

You will also find this on normal exh. pipes & mufflers if let to sit a lot will rust faster than if driven every day.

Just my .02

BTW how low will the headers hang below the frame of the truck?

Can you tuck the system up even or above the bottom of the frame?

I say this because you are building this for "over landing" so you don't want to get hung up on a low hanging exh. system.

Dave ----

My 1966 Shelby was a DD for quite a while. When the original tri-y headers rusted through sometime in the 70s I replaced them with Hooker big tube (1-5/8" primaries) as that was recommended for 351W and Shelby engines. These went to a 3" collector and I used the Hooker Header Mufflers behind them. The "tailpipes" were angled to come out just in front of the traction bar front mounts. When I ran the car where I could have open exhausts I used a pair of 3" pipes from my best friend's ex-Traco Engineering Javelin race car. We found that ear plugs were good for 2 seconds a lap better time due to the noise level.

This car and my 1964 Falcon are why I will not put headers on Darth. I got very proficient at changing the gaskets at the heads. These were pre-ban asbestos ones and still would only last so long probably due to the fact that the entire exhaust system on each side was held up by the 8 3/8" bolts and a single support near the outer end of the pipes. One nice thing, the right side header would come out the top after the plug wires were removed, left side, no way, steering box and clutch cross shaft got in the way.

[Gary Lewis]

My 1966 Shelby was a DD for quite a while. When the original tri-y headers rusted through sometime in the 70s I replaced them with Hooker big tube (1-5/8" primaries) as that was recommended for 351W and Shelby engines. These went to a 3" collector and I used the Hooker Header Mufflers behind them. The "tailpipes" were angled to come out just in front of the traction bar front mounts. When I ran the car where I could have open exhausts I used a pair of 3" pipes from my best friend's ex-Traco Engineering Javelin race car. We found that ear plugs were good for 2 seconds a lap better time due to the noise level.

This car and my 1964 Falcon are why I will not put headers on Darth. I got very proficient at changing the gaskets at the heads. These were pre-ban asbestos ones and still would only last so long probably due to the fact that the entire exhaust system on each side was held up by the 8 3/8" bolts and a single support near the outer end of the pipes. One nice thing, the right side header would come out the top after the plug wires were removed, left side, no way, steering box and clutch cross shaft got in the way.

L&L's were on Big Blue when I got him several years ago, and they didn't hang down low. And other than the fact that the left one hit the frame, which I can correct by shimming the engine's mounts, I had no problems with them. In fact, no blown gaskets, probably due to the 1/2" thick header flange.

That's why I'm going back with L&L's. But I need to figure out if there is a good way to keep them from rusting and keep the heat from baking everything.

And as of now the outfit in OKC hasn't returned my call. But I did send a note to Justin @ R&D to see what he recommends.

[ArdWrknTrk]

L&L's were on Big Blue when I got him several years ago, and they didn't hang down low. And other than the fact that the left one hit the frame, which I can correct by shimming the engine's mounts, I had no problems with them. In fact, no blown gaskets, probably due to the 1/2" thick header flange.

That's why I'm going back with L&L's. But I need to figure out if there is a good way to keep them from rusting and keep the heat from baking everything.

And as of now the outfit in OKC hasn't returned my call. But I did send a note to Justin @ R&D to see what he recommends.

Gary,

Ceramic coating the inside of headers provides an insulator and a reflective surface.

Silver ceramic, chrome plating or stainless exteriors provide another reflective surface.

(Yes, shiny on the outside reflects heat to the inside)

You want to keep heat in the exhaust gasses for efficiency and flow as much as keeping underhood temps down.

Check out Calico Coatings.