Steve83 Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 ...looking at that Haynes drawing...The first one I grabbed is a blue-cover '80-96 edition with good wiring diagrams up to p.12-63, and only the later 36058 part number (not the older 880). The cross-section diagrams (illustration 9.1) at the top of p.9-14 are what I'm looking at. https://supermotors.net/getfile/449785/thumbnail/hayneses.jpg...the spring centered shuttle...None of the diagrams in this Haynes show any spring in the valve....the spring loaded switch's pin...I agree, there has to be a spring in the switch, but the switch isn't shown in cross-section in the diagram I'm looking at....switch's pin to drop into the shuttle groove (setting off the light)...Actually, the groove is the center/OFF position. It's when the piston slides off-center that the switch pin is depressed, turning on the light....the position of the O-rings...There are no O-rings shown, but I assume that's what it means by "seal" in 2 places on the piston....the O-rings preclude the flow of brake fluid to that side.Not on this one - the seals only keep the switch groove & pin dry. They never enter the areas where the brake fluid passes from one port to any other, so that flow is never inhibited.Show what you know.What diagram are you seeing that shows the valve you're describing? If it's a Haynes: what color cover, what PNs, and what year range? And again: mine always worked the way Haynes described & shows. It never restricted flow. I don't even remember ever using the bleed pin (which mine has). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArdWrknTrk Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 ...looking at that Haynes drawing...The first one I grabbed is a blue-cover '80-96 edition with good wiring diagrams up to p.12-63, and only the later 36058 part number (not the older 880). The cross-section diagrams (illustration 9.1) at the top of p.9-14 are what I'm looking at. https://supermotors.net/getfile/449785/thumbnail/hayneses.jpg...the spring centered shuttle...None of the diagrams in this Haynes show any spring in the valve....the spring loaded switch's pin...I agree, there has to be a spring in the switch, but the switch isn't shown in cross-section in the diagram I'm looking at....switch's pin to drop into the shuttle groove (setting off the light)...Actually, the groove is the center/OFF position. It's when the piston slides off-center that the switch pin is depressed, turning on the light....the position of the O-rings...There are no O-rings shown, but I assume that's what it means by "seal" in 2 places on the piston....the O-rings preclude the flow of brake fluid to that side.Not on this one - the seals only keep the switch groove & pin dry. They never enter the areas where the brake fluid passes from one port to any other, so that flow is never inhibited.Show what you know.What diagram are you seeing that shows the valve you're describing? If it's a Haynes: what color cover, what PNs, and what year range? And again: mine always worked the way Haynes described & shows. It never restricted flow. I don't even remember ever using the bleed pin (which mine has). Double post, sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArdWrknTrk Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 ...looking at that Haynes drawing...The first one I grabbed is a blue-cover '80-96 edition with good wiring diagrams up to p.12-63, and only the later 36058 part number (not the older 880). The cross-section diagrams (illustration 9.1) at the top of p.9-14 are what I'm looking at. https://supermotors.net/getfile/449785/thumbnail/hayneses.jpg...the spring centered shuttle...None of the diagrams in this Haynes show any spring in the valve....the spring loaded switch's pin...I agree, there has to be a spring in the switch, but the switch isn't shown in cross-section in the diagram I'm looking at....switch's pin to drop into the shuttle groove (setting off the light)...Actually, the groove is the center/OFF position. It's when the piston slides off-center that the switch pin is depressed, turning on the light....the position of the O-rings...There are no O-rings shown, but I assume that's what it means by "seal" in 2 places on the piston....the O-rings preclude the flow of brake fluid to that side.Not on this one - the seals only keep the switch groove & pin dry. They never enter the areas where the brake fluid passes from one port to any other, so that flow is never inhibited.Show what you know.What diagram are you seeing that shows the valve you're describing? If it's a Haynes: what color cover, what PNs, and what year range? And again: mine always worked the way Haynes described & shows. It never restricted flow. I don't even remember ever using the bleed pin (which mine has). Right now I'm looking at the thread Gary linked. ***edit, Chris's fig.50-42A certainly has springs in both ends, and o-rings, and needs the plunger held to bleed.... As Chris says there, the missing FoMoCo cutaway *should be* the standard by which others are judged. I've seen so much generic BS in Haynes manuals that are "based on an actual teardown" that I don't hold a lot of hope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snakebite8 Posted October 1, 2019 Author Share Posted October 1, 2019 The proportioning valve cannot differentiate between the left and right rear brakes.I agree.There's one line that comes off the master cylinder and goes to the rear, where it splits at the axle vent on the axle, which you can see in the illustration below. So if you were able to bleed one rear brake and not the other it isn't the proportioning valve's fault. I'm going to guess that you may have a flattened brake line somewhere. Maybe along the frame or on the rear axle. Or, that the rubber hose that connects from the frame to the rear axle is bad.For the same reasons that the prop.valve can't cause a L/R bias, neither can the frame tube or rear axle hose. The fault MUST be between the splitter block on the axle vent, and the problem wheel cylinder. But if anyone actually needs one, I still have this one that worked fine when I switched to the later system: https://supermotors.net/getfile/932180/thumbnail/propvlv83.jpg Steve could u hit me up about the valve. thank u 732 779 4646 joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve83 Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 Double post, sorry. Joe Click my username, and send me an e-mail. I keep odd hours....the missing FoMoCo cutaway...IDK what you mean. I see a few cutaways in that thread. But if it's missing, how can anyone refer to it, or use it as a standard? The brass one that seems to be the topic of the thread doesn't look OE to me. Mine seems to match the last diagram in post #29. I assume you've been talking about the 2nd diagram in that post, which does seem to show a blockoff valve, but it's in the proportioning section - not the switch (piston) section. But mine isn't like that, and IDK what vehicle that diagram applies to.I've seen so much generic BS in Haynes manuals...Yes, there are certainly some mistakes - even in the Ford manuals. But Haynes is something that's commonly available, so we can all look at the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FuzzFace2 Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 Joe Click my username, and send me an e-mail. I keep odd hours....the missing FoMoCo cutaway...IDK what you mean. I see a few cutaways in that thread. But if it's missing, how can anyone refer to it, or use it as a standard? The brass one that seems to be the topic of the thread doesn't look OE to me. Mine seems to match the last diagram in post #29. I assume you've been talking about the 2nd diagram in that post, which does seem to show a blockoff valve, but it's in the proportioning section - not the switch (piston) section. But mine isn't like that, and IDK what vehicle that diagram applies to.I've seen so much generic BS in Haynes manuals...Yes, there are certainly some mistakes - even in the Ford manuals. But Haynes is something that's commonly available, so we can all look at the same thing. Are we sure the valve is getting psi for the rear part from the master? I know he said he got nothing OUT of the valve going to the rear but is nothing is going into the valve you would get nothing coming out. Also if the system was open for a long time or replaced all the lines so it is mostly dry it will take a lot to get 1 side or the other to build presser. I open all bleeders over night or 2 till I get fluid out. I close that one and let the others to get wet. I then start at bleeding the master like it was new out of the box. I then move to the first fitting and crack it to get fluid and work my way thru the system till I am at each wheel to do the bleeding at them. I think he just did not go back far enough, only to the outlet side of the valve, he needs to go back farther to test the master & lines. Dave ---- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArdWrknTrk Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 Are we sure the valve is getting psi for the rear part from the master? I know he said he got nothing OUT of the valve going to the rear but is nothing is going into the valve you would get nothing coming out. Also if the system was open for a long time or replaced all the lines so it is mostly dry it will take a lot to get 1 side or the other to build presser. I open all bleeders over night or 2 till I get fluid out. I close that one and let the others to get wet. I then start at bleeding the master like it was new out of the box. I then move to the first fitting and crack it to get fluid and work my way thru the system till I am at each wheel to do the bleeding at them. I think he just did not go back far enough, only to the outlet side of the valve, he needs to go back farther to test the master & lines. Dave ---- Dave, you've got a good point. It's the same as not bench bleeding a new MC. You're never going to get fluid on the other side, unless you back bleed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
85lebaront2 Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 Are we sure the valve is getting psi for the rear part from the master? I know he said he got nothing OUT of the valve going to the rear but is nothing is going into the valve you would get nothing coming out. Also if the system was open for a long time or replaced all the lines so it is mostly dry it will take a lot to get 1 side or the other to build presser. I open all bleeders over night or 2 till I get fluid out. I close that one and let the others to get wet. I then start at bleeding the master like it was new out of the box. I then move to the first fitting and crack it to get fluid and work my way thru the system till I am at each wheel to do the bleeding at them. I think he just did not go back far enough, only to the outlet side of the valve, he needs to go back farther to test the master & lines. Dave ---- When I bled the ones on my convertible, which has the dual diagonal system, LF & RR then RF & LR paired, I opened the bleeder screws on all 4 corners until I started seeing fluid drip. As each caliper started dripping I closed that bleeder screw. The right rear, which has the longest line took close to 1 1/2 hrs before any fluid appeared. When I had an available helper, I bled them the rest of the way, very few bubbles and only on the rear calipers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snakebite8 Posted October 3, 2019 Author Share Posted October 3, 2019 When I bled the ones on my convertible, which has the dual diagonal system, LF & RR then RF & LR paired, I opened the bleeder screws on all 4 corners until I started seeing fluid drip. As each caliper started dripping I closed that bleeder screw. The right rear, which has the longest line took close to 1 1/2 hrs before any fluid appeared. When I had an available helper, I bled them the rest of the way, very few bubbles and only on the rear calipers. I tried one last thing to try to clear the valve. I pushed air into it and whatever was blocking it is now free. this weekend I am going to hook it up and see if I can bleed the brakes!! fingers crossed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArdWrknTrk Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 I tried one last thing to try to clear the valve. I pushed air into it and whatever was blocking it is now free. this weekend I am going to hook it up and see if I can bleed the brakes!! fingers crossed! Read that linked thread from the beginning. It may as well be about your problem. Also note; the 'brass block' proportioning valve is for all heavy duty 250 & 350 trucks, not something aftermarket. And the spring clip tool to hold the plunger out while bleeding. You might consider trying to clean it out before reinstalling. I suggested that they get dirty and full of sludge after 35 years, and this can cause the piston to stick if it travels too far into the usually unused portion of the bore. I use PAG compatible A/C system cleaner to clean out calipers. https://www.autozone.com/a-c-charging-and-refrigerant/a-c-system-cleaner/a-c-pro-flush-system-cleaner-aerosol-spray-17oz/896840_0_0 It is okay for glycol and won't eat the seals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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