The Camano Experience

[Gary Lewis]

Let us know what happens and if they solve the problem

Time for some updates on the 86.

I'll start by saying we are in the proverbial "fool me twice" territory now.

Instead of ditching the Powermaster, I now own two

I believe last I posted the Ford Upgrade 1 wire was in the local shop. Powermaster wouldn't sell the builder the parts so I picked it up and forked out the money to return it to PM.

Few days later PM called and the unit really wasn't worth rebuilding back to original specs (apparently it has older gen internals). They gave me the options of building it to lesser specs, a discount on a newer Ford Upgrade 1 wire with better specs, and/or a discount on a 3G.

I'd talked myself into the 3G already but also went with the discount on the newer Ford Upgrade 1 wire to be used in the 80 or another project.

And since I didn't check to see if I had something written on my forehead, I went with the 1 wire 3G

Joking aside, no regrets..so far.

The 3G did require some grinding on the L&L bracket so it would have full range of motion. Not really needed once stretched out but it would have been a bit of a pain getting the belt on initially.

Have only driven it a couple of times but so far so good. The initial startup did give me a squeal so will monitor that. It was a known risk with the higher amp output potential and a single v belt.

Specs on this unit:

Since Gary brought it up in another thread, I am toying with the electric fan idea. Did some quick temp wiring for one fan (has two) and the 12" 80W fan hits 14.5A at start and then settles at 8A. I don't know how accurate the ebay specs are for the fan but it seems to move a lot of air.

I thought about trying to use the relays in the ssVEC but instead opted for the Davies Craig 0445 controller. It's a pretty simple self-contained unit but is temp configurable, has a delayed second fan start, and can be A/C triggered.

Waiting for that to come in now.

Wow! That is a LOT of current! You have as much at idle as I do at full tilt.

You may want to go to a delay regulator to get away from the startup squeal. But I'm anxious to see.

As for owning two Powermasters, I understand that to be questionable. But owning three, if only in parts, shows intelligence. Let's correct that on Sept 4th. It is a free upgrade.

[Machspeed]

Wow! That is a LOT of current! You have as much at idle as I do at full tilt.

You may want to go to a delay regulator to get away from the startup squeal. But I'm anxious to see.

As for owning two Powermasters, I understand that to be questionable. But owning three, if only in parts, shows intelligence. Let's correct that on Sept 4th. It is a free upgrade.

Interesting conversation about the alternator upgrade. Under Gary and Jim's supervision, I did the 3G upgrade. I had some problems with the first alternator I ordered, ate the loss and went to AZ and got one with a lifetime warranty.....think it was for a 93 Ford Taurus with 3.8 6 cyl. Anyway, first alternator I put a delayed regulator on it to avoid the squeal at start up. Never had squeal. The AZ alternator I purchased, I did not mess with the regulator and surprisingly, no start up squeal. Not at all sure why that is but I'm grateful. It's not often that I fall on good luck.

[kramttocs]

Scott, which 3G chassis did you end up with?

We have the same L&L bracket on a 460 and I don't have any problem with range of motion.

But I do have the 8.25" mount, and I believe I am using a non-stick belt length.

Anyway, I do have plenty of swing and my adjuster bolt is near the middle of the slot.

Nailed it Jim. I was thinking the ears looked a little compact but didn't give it much thought and just grabbed the grinder (was one of those days when the first thought is just a bigger hammer). Pretty sure I mentioned the long ears version when on the phone but the model number is definitely the short one. Figures

Will no doubt be looking at the LRC if the slipping occurs frequently but maybe some of John's luck will rub off.

Gary - I think you meant to say 'insanity' but I'll take you up on that offer because of, well, insanity.

[ArdWrknTrk]

Nailed it Jim. I was thinking the ears looked a little compact but didn't give it much thought and just grabbed the grinder (was one of those days when the first thought is just a bigger hammer). Pretty sure I mentioned the long ears version when on the phone but the model number is definitely the short one. Figures

Will no doubt be looking at the LRC if the slipping occurs frequently but maybe some of John's luck will rub off.

Gary - I think you meant to say 'insanity' but I'll take you up on that offer because of, well, insanity.

You can tell the 8.25" because it has a little 'bar' supporting the middle of the extended casting.

This is why I recommend the 8.25" for V-belt applications and the 7" for polygroove (where there is another spring loaded tensioner)

The L&L bracket is plenty beefy that it can be relieved without compromising.

I hope your alternator is lucky, like John's!

[kramttocs]

You can tell the 8.25" because it has a little 'bar' supporting the middle of the extended casting.

This is why I recommend the 8.25" for V-belt applications and the 7" for polygroove (where there is another spring loaded tensioner)

The L&L bracket is plenty beefy that it can be relieved without compromising.

I hope your alternator is lucky, like John's!

While the alignment leaves a little to be desired, you are right - those L&L brackets are thick chunks of metal.

Got the fan controller installed today but am waiting on a terminal block to finish it up followed by some cable management.

The 0444 (or 0445) is pretty nice. For the record the leads are 18". The fan leads are also 18" but no matter what config I tried there wasn't a way to install the controller without requiring an extension somewhere.

Ended up removing the soldered fan leads (can't recall now if 14 or 16 awg) and soldering longer 12 awg wire to the motor terminals to avoid the inline extension.

The controller is installed on one of the passenger side core support buttresses allowing the 18" fan power leads to reach the top passenger corner of the fan shroud which is where I am installing the Blue Seas 4 post terminal block. The new fan wires will meet them here.

Terminal block and sensor adapter (1/4npt to 3/8npt for the intake) should be here tomorrow.

One nice benefit of the 0444 is that it provides a digital current temperature readout.

The instructions say that once up to operating temp set the fan turn on value to 18 degrees F above that.

I have a 180 thermostat so guess I'll start out at 198 and adjust as needed.

This would cause fan 1 to turn on when the intake coolant temp is 198, fan 2 comes on 10 seconds later and both shut off when 189.

[Gary Lewis]

While the alignment leaves a little to be desired, you are right - those L&L brackets are thick chunks of metal.

Got the fan controller installed today but am waiting on a terminal block to finish it up followed by some cable management.

The 0444 (or 0445) is pretty nice. For the record the leads are 18". The fan leads are also 18" but no matter what config I tried there wasn't a way to install the controller without requiring an extension somewhere.

Ended up removing the soldered fan leads (can't recall now if 14 or 16 awg) and soldering longer 12 awg wire to the motor terminals to avoid the inline extension.

The controller is installed on one of the passenger side core support buttresses allowing the 18" fan power leads to reach the top passenger corner of the fan shroud which is where I am installing the Blue Seas 4 post terminal block. The new fan wires will meet them here.

Terminal block and sensor adapter (1/4npt to 3/8npt for the intake) should be here tomorrow.

One nice benefit of the 0444 is that it provides a digital current temperature readout.

The instructions say that once up to operating temp set the fan turn on value to 18 degrees F above that.

I have a 180 thermostat so guess I'll start out at 198 and adjust as needed.

This would cause fan 1 to turn on when the intake coolant temp is 198, fan 2 comes on 10 seconds later and both shut off when 189.

Sounds like a nice installation. I'll bet pics would confirm that.

On the on/off temps, if my aftermarket gauge is accurate Big Blue runs right at 198 to 200 with his 195 'stat. So with your 180 'stat you will probably run at 183 to 185, so turning on at 198 off at 189 should be about right.

Do you have a relay to bring one on with the A/C compressor?

And please tell me about the "fan 2 comes on 10 seconds later and both shut off when 189" bit? Does fan 2 come on 10 seconds later if the temp hasn't come down, or always? Does it only go off when fan 1 goes off? Just trying to understand how it works.

[kramttocs]

Sounds like a nice installation. I'll bet pics would confirm that.

On the on/off temps, if my aftermarket gauge is accurate Big Blue runs right at 198 to 200 with his 195 'stat. So with your 180 'stat you will probably run at 183 to 185, so turning on at 198 off at 189 should be about right.

Do you have a relay to bring one on with the A/C compressor?

And please tell me about the "fan 2 comes on 10 seconds later and both shut off when 189" bit? Does fan 2 come on 10 seconds later if the temp hasn't come down, or always? Does it only go off when fan 1 goes off? Just trying to understand how it works.

The whole time I was thinking: "I should be taking photos"

Thanks for the temp confirmation!

Yes - actually the controller has a built-in a/c trigger wire for that purpose or if one wanted to manual override the fans. I had already reworked Circuit 348 to go through a relay in the ssVEC before the pressure switch when I added the vacuum switch (rpm boost at idle) so I added this to that relay's output as well.

The 10s delay is to reduce the amp spike by having the two fans staggered. It won't come on if the temp has dropped already and both turn off together. So fan 2 runtime is fan1-10s.

The big question is still whether or not the fans will be able to handle it in all situations

 

[Gary Lewis]

The whole time I was thinking: "I should be taking photos"

Thanks for the temp confirmation!

Yes - actually the controller has a built-in a/c trigger wire for that purpose or if one wanted to manual override the fans. I had already reworked Circuit 348 to go through a relay in the ssVEC before the pressure switch when I added the vacuum switch (rpm boost at idle) so I added this to that relay's output as well.

The 10s delay is to reduce the amp spike by having the two fans staggered. It won't come on if the temp has dropped already and both turn off together. So fan 2 runtime is fan1-10s.

The big question is still whether or not the fans will be able to handle it in all situations

I'm anxious to find out. Gonna bring it to the show?

[kramttocs]

I'm anxious to find out. Gonna bring it to the show?

Definitely planning on bringing it

Some photos:

Wire routing and terminal block

Sensor installed in intake near thermostat housing

Controller installed. Hard to see. The display is easy to read when looking over the fender though

Wired up

Sadly, I don't feel comfortable using this setup as-is. I did a first test in my shop with an outside temp of 93 and no air movement in the shop. Fans came on and were able to cool it down to where they shut off but it wasn't quick. Kicking the a/c on though and the temps slowly crept up with them seeming to level off at 199. While not at risk of overheating yet, I want the temp to drop and the fans to cycle like the stock fan does.

I then took it for a drive. Even when driving 65 the temps stayed around 198 with the fans not shutting off. This put the gauge between M-A. Still going 65 I turned the A/C on (was a hot drive prior to that) and the gauge went up to A-L. Pulled it in the shop and immediately checked it while idling and it was at 204.

Far cry from it previously being between O-R with it creeping up to M-A with A/C on but then going back down when the clutch kicked in.

I don't mind the temps getting hotter than previously as I think it was running a bit cool but I want to know that the fans can bring them back down.

Since these are the cheap ebay fans I decided to try a better SPAL fan before I call it quits and go back to mechanical. Just did one because I didn't want to spend double on something that might not work and I also want to have both kinds running side by side to see if there is a noticeable difference.

[ArdWrknTrk]

Definitely planning on bringing it

Some photos:

Wire routing and terminal block

Sensor installed in intake near thermostat housing

Controller installed. Hard to see. The display is easy to read when looking over the fender though

Wired up

Sadly, I don't feel comfortable using this setup as-is. I did a first test in my shop with an outside temp of 93 and no air movement in the shop. Fans came on and were able to cool it down to where they shut off but it wasn't quick. Kicking the a/c on though and the temps slowly crept up with them seeming to level off at 199. While not at risk of overheating yet, I want the temp to drop and the fans to cycle like the stock fan does.

I then took it for a drive. Even when driving 65 the temps stayed around 198 with the fans not shutting off. This put the gauge between M-A. Still going 65 I turned the A/C on (was a hot drive prior to that) and the gauge went up to A-L. Pulled it in the shop and immediately checked it while idling and it was at 204.

Far cry from it previously being between O-R with it creeping up to M-A with A/C on but then going back down when the clutch kicked in.

I don't mind the temps getting hotter than previously as I think it was running a bit cool but I want to know that the fans can bring them back down.

Since these are the cheap ebay fans I decided to try a better SPAL fan before I call it quits and go back to mechanical. Just did one because I didn't want to spend double on something that might not work and I also want to have both kinds running side by side to see if there is a noticeable difference.

Out of curiosity, how many CFM are those fans rated for?

Honestly you shouldn't be having any problem cooling at 65 even with the fans off.

Unless your shroud is completely killing air flow through the radiator.

Did you ever consider just going with one of the factory Lincoln MK VIII fans?

They are rated at 4300cfm on high and seem to work really well from everything I've heard.

I know Hayden makes a soft start controller that works well with them.